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  1. #21
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    mm, i may be wrong, but i had a distinct feeling that an sx-dom would revert to so. it was something about the natural flow of the variants (there is even a diagram for that)... and indeed sp-dom would go sx. I can't find it, can you?
    I've never read anything about that. I'd like to learn more about it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Neither are we. Thus begins to unfold the complexity of the problem.
    I'm sorry but every Sp/so that I know could give a flying fuck about relationships and seductions. To me, Sp/so types tend to just be these work-a-holic drones that do nothing but work, sleep, and eat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Sorry, but the So/Sp is way off for me.
    Yeah, I knew it would be. It is mostly congruent with so/sp id types. What is your seduction style btw?

    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    The bolded is very accurate for me. Maybe creepy, but at least I'm subtle about it.

    If you want to revise it, this thread might be helpful.
    I will check that thread out.

  2. #22
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I've never read anything about that. I'd like to learn more about it though.
    @skylights

    I found it!
    http://personalitycafe.com/articles/...al-drives.html
    Enneagram Instinctual Subtype and Pair BondingInterrelationship of Instinctual Drives
    A noteworthy point of interest with respect to the Enneagram Instinctual Subtypes is that the dominant instinctual drive (self-preserving, social or sexual) will shift to the other two subtypes as needed to ensure its influential role in this trialectic instinctual system. The way in which the dominant subtype employs the other two appears to be very specific and predictable. The dominant drive maintains the role of the commander in chief and the other two are channeled through its lens. Generally, this is very primal and often unconscious. This is especially apparent with respect to the human drive to seek a mate and pair bonding, but applies to all areas of life. If a relationship displays conflicting instinctual needs the dominant drive perceives it as a threat to security and acts accordingly. Confusion about the manner in which the instinctual drives manifest to create and maintain a sense of security is often the root of misunderstandings. Such disturbances in the instinctual drive are often the catalyst for seeking counsel or therapy.

    Self-preserving moves to Sexual For example, the self preserving subtype considers a mate as an essential need to maintain and insure security. Therefore, when in search of a mate the self-preserving subtype will feel anxiety and suspense until a mate is secured. In order to attract a mate, the self-preserving subtype will shift to their respective sexual instinctual drive to accommodate this fear. Outwardly the self-preserving subtype will behave like the sexual subtype, pay more attention to their desirability and will be sensual or flirtatious. At first, the self-preserving subtype will spend more time one on more with the possible mate. Once the mate is secured, the self-preserving subtype will return to basic routines that ideally would include the mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to issues of security and disrupt their need for inner calm.

    Social moves to Self-PreservingThe social subtype will think in terms more indicative of the self-preserving subtype when selecting a mate. This is very important to insure the desired security that rank and social status can provide. The social subtype seeks a mate with a shared social vision and similar values. This is necessary to fulfill the desire for a mate that will join them in their activities. Therefore, a secure social position is essential. Much attention is paid to the potential mate?s connections, rank and ability to provide financial security. This subtype enjoys bringing others together, feeling that ?the more the merrier?. They are often adept at creating the center stage and often use their home for social events, gatherings and causes. At first the social subtype will spend more time one on one with the potential mate. Once the mate is in place, the social subtype will return to outside interests, groups and/or activities, ideally, this is with their mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to their need for people, activities, causes and unwilling to share their interest in others.

    Sexual moves to Social The sexual subtype (one on one) will seek the greater world or social arena to find a desired mate. The sexual subtype is normally happy tucked away in a secluded setting with one significant other. However, when alone or in search of a mate, this subtype will behave much more like the social subtype. One must be with others to find ?the other?. Once the mate is selected, the social activity will be replaced by the dominant drive for time spent in union with the other one on one. At first the sexual subtype may spend time with the potential mate in the company of others. They become a pair even in groups. Then when the passion for deeper connection is ignited the sexual subtype will want to bond totally with their desired other. When the mate is determined, the sexual subtype will return to one on one style of relating. Ideally, this is intense time spent with the desired other or mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to their degree of connection and intimately share their deepest and innermost thoughts.
    ?1996 Katherine Chernick-Fauvre

    And then there is this in 16types: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tual-Stackings
    Check section "Flow of Instinctual Energies & Compatibility":

    Flow of Instinctual Energies & Compatibility

    When we invest our energy, most of it is devoted to fulfillment of our primary instinct. The remaining energy radiates or flows onto the secondary instinct and finally onto the last instinct, which receives the smallest share. There are two possible configurations or directions for this flow. In first configuration, energy is invested in the order of sx→sp→so→sx. This direction gives rise to three stackings: sx/sp, sp/so, so/sx. In the second configuration, energy is invested in the order of sx→so→sp→sx, which gives rise to the other three stackings: sx/so, so/sp and sp/sx.

    Syn-flow: sp → so → sx → sp
    Stackings involved: sp/so → so/sx → sx/sp → sp/so
    Direction: Compelled toward people. Acting upon and with others as a born insider i.e.- deeply human.

    Contra-flow: sp → sx → so → sp
    Stackings involved: sp/sx → sx/so → so/sp → sp/sx
    Direction: Compelled against people. Seething belligerent outsiders; 'antisocial', provoking, reverse-flow change catalysts. In some profound sense, rejecting the human condition, their own and/or that of others.

    The two flows move in the opposite directions. This antithesis can be seen if the instinctual stackings are compared in pairs:

    so/sx - including, associating, affiliating, networking, incorporating, interconnecting, introducing, unifying, linking, bonding, annexing, cooperating, receiving
    sx/so - excluding, eliminating, dividing, separating, contradicting, subverting, confronting, rebuffing, ridiculing, challenging, interrupting, reforming, rupturing

    sx/sp - intensifying, escalating, rising, surging, enlivening, invigorating, accelerating, stimulating, energizing, vitalizing, reviving, animating, inspiriting
    sp/sx - dulling, calming, quieting, grounding, descending, lowering, dampening, numbing, desensitizing, exhausting, deadening, extinguishing, making still

    sp/so - conserving, protecting, maintaining, preserving, supplying, repairing, sustaining, stewarding
    so/sp - utilizing, employing, implementing, expending, exercising, spending, capitalizing, expropriating

    It has been proposed that people of stackings that are part of same flow progression generally have mutually reinforcing and supportive interactions as they are channeling their attention, efforts and energies in the same direction. The stacking located upstream within the flow progression has the ability to cover for the blindspot instinct of the downstream stacking, by this also reinforcing the energy flow of downstream stacking. For example: a person of sx/sp stacking is directing energy in the following manner sx→sp→so, in which case someone with sp/so stack can reinforce the sx/sp's weaker secondary sp→so link and support their social-last blindspot.

    The relationship between people of downsteam and upstream stackings within the same flow can be compared to relations of Benefit or Supervision in Socionics i.e. they contain elements of asymmetry; partners seem to one another simultaneously talented in some way and also somehow lacking.

    The individual of downstream stacking usually feels a measure of attraction for someone of their upstream stacking and attempt to get to know them. In they become close, the downstream stacking often attempts to provide for the upstream stacking through help and activities channeled through their secondary instinct (e.g. so/sx may try to draw out sx/sp out of their shell into the social sphere, by inviting them to partake in some social activities or introducing them to new people, sensing that sx/sp is too insular). The upstream stacking at the same time feels some kind of deficiency in the downstream stacking; this is reflected, first of all, in inflexible and overly emphatic focus on their primary instinct, which for downstream stacking, to the contrary, is an adaptive, flexible, creative area only of secondary importance; and secondly in lack of attention to their first instinct (e.g. sx/sp may feel like sp/so doesn't know how to creatively provide for their sp-needs and that sp/so is not emotionally lively enough for an sx-first). The upstream person, meanwhile, comes into awareness of downstream stacking's deficiency in their blindspot instinct which for upstream stacking serves as a creative area. If their relations are friendly, the upstream person will attempt to provide for the blindspot of the downstream person, guiding them away from committing mistakes and towards beneficial and constructive actions in this sphere (e.g. sx/sp will try to guide so/sx away from doing anything that may threaten their well-being, their health and livelihood, their self-preservation needs, and direct them towards greater sustainability and well-being). The downstream person is often reluctant about such help, since this is not something that they generally concern about, but at the same time feels inspired, uplifted, and invigorated by such blindspot support and infusion, since focus exerted on their blindspot instinct has the effect of alleviating the neuroses and insecurities related to their primary instinct fixation. If they are on unfriendly terms, the upstream stacking may openly chide, be critical and derisive of the weaknesses of downstream person in their last blindspot instinct, and look down on the downstream person for what they see as misguided and deficient orientation.

    Relations between stackings of opposite flows may feel attractive initially due to their novelty and contrast. However, in the long run, the interaction may feel somewhat boring, unrewarding, uncomplimentary, disorienting, correcting, stifling, and otherwise frustrating to the people involved.

    Relations between stackings of opposite flows with shared dominant instinct (e.g. sp/so-sp/sx, or sx/sp-sx/so) are usually most interesting and compelling at the initial stages. Both partners have the same primary drive and desire, which evokes mutual sympathy and respect. However, they soon discover that they tap into different spheres to try to fulfill this need due to differences in secondary instincts. Each will attempt to pull the other into the realm of their secondary instinct, but find that while the other person appreciates this invitation in at least for its novelty, they won't feel comfortable in this sphere and will retract, which at times will end in mutual reproaches and disagreements (e.g. sx/so complains that sx/sp is too insular, socially unaware and crude, while sx/sp will find fault with what they see as sx/so's social vassalage and disregard for privacy). It is as if both people agree on having to carry the same heavy load, but then end up pulling it into different directions, which evokes feelings of dissatisfaction and misunderstanding. Nevertheless, among the opposite flow interactions this pairing is usually the most attractive and frequently encountered one.

    Stacking of same but mutually opposing instincts (e.g. sp/so and so/sp) often have overlapping areas of interests and concerns and same area of disinterest and disregard (same instinctual blindspot). They may appreciate what the other person brings into relationship in terms of content and feel camaraderie on basis of having the same blindspot instinct (e.g. sp/sx and sx/sp may appreciate each other's disregard for the social convention and "lone wolf" approach). However, partners seem somehow elusive to one another. What constitutes the primary drive, desire, and concern of one partner, the other approaches in a creative, flexible, light-hearted way as something that is only of secondary importance. Thus while inverse stackings can sense their similarity, at the same time they constantly unbalance and throw each other off. Since they are channeling their attention and energies in the opposite directions, they may enter a cycle of mutual correction, extinguishment, and reorientation, criticizing the other for what they see as a misguided focus. Both of them might feel as if they are constantly pulling the rug from under each other's feet.

    Stackings that share the same middle instinct but not the leading one can be said to be most opposite in their orientation. If there is any attraction between people of these stackings, it usually forms on basis of overlap of areas that they approach flexibly and creatively due to having same middle instinct (e.g. sx/sp and so/sp may have involving discussion about fitness, home decor, and culinary topics). They soon discover, however, that their primary motivations and desires couldn't be any more different and are of no interest to each other, and thus part ways. In worst case scenarios, one of them will find the other disruptive of their primary orientation and try to eliminate or somehow suppress the other person.

  3. #23
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post



    I'm sorry but every Sp/so that I know could give a flying fuck about relationships and seductions. To me, Sp/so types tend to just be these work-a-holic drones that do nothing but work, sleep, and eat.
    Well as a likely sp/so, I'm hardly the workaholic drone you describe. I'm passionate about many things. I do agree though that they are less inclined to be the seductive type. Do they care about relationships? Yes, but they express their caring in a less seductive manner.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    Well as a likely sp/so, I'm hardly the workaholic drone you describe. I'm passionate about many things. I do agree though that they are less inclined to be the seductive type. Do they care about relationships? Yes, but they express their caring in a less seductive manner.
    I've read that relationships are mostly a form of security to the sp/so? Could you elaborate on this?

  5. #25
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I've read that relationships are mostly a form of security to the sp/so? Could you elaborate on this?
    Security is an important part of it but I would never have a relationship just for security if I didn't truly love the person first.

    As for security, I want someone to take care of me in times of dire need. Like if I was severely sick or injured and unable to do things myself, I want to know that there will be someone there to provide for this.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    Security is an important part of it but I would never have a relationship just for security if I didn't truly love the person first.

    As for security, I want someone to take care of me in times of dire need. Like if I was severely sick or injured and unable to do things myself, I want to know that there will be someone there to provide for this.
    Do find that it takes you a long time to get close to people? I hear from a lot of sexual last people that they keep people at an arms length, and find it very difficult to get close. They also tell me that they aren't very comfortable with affection. Do you fit this profile?

  7. #27
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    @pinkgraffiti

    Self-preserving moves to Sexual For example, the self preserving subtype considers a mate as an essential need to maintain and insure security. Therefore, when in search of a mate the self-preserving subtype will feel anxiety and suspense until a mate is secured. In order to attract a mate, the self-preserving subtype will shift to their respective sexual instinctual drive to accommodate this fear. Outwardly the self-preserving subtype will behave like the sexual subtype, pay more attention to their desirability and will be sensual or flirtatious. At first, the self-preserving subtype will spend more time one on more with the possible mate. Once the mate is secured, the self-preserving subtype will return to basic routines that ideally would include the mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to issues of security and disrupt their need for inner calm.

    Social moves to Self-PreservingThe social subtype will think in terms more indicative of the self-preserving subtype when selecting a mate. This is very important to insure the desired security that rank and social status can provide. The social subtype seeks a mate with a shared social vision and similar values. This is necessary to fulfill the desire for a mate that will join them in their activities. Therefore, a secure social position is essential. Much attention is paid to the potential mate?s connections, rank and ability to provide financial security. This subtype enjoys bringing others together, feeling that ?the more the merrier?. They are often adept at creating the center stage and often use their home for social events, gatherings and causes. At first the social subtype will spend more time one on one with the potential mate. Once the mate is in place, the social subtype will return to outside interests, groups and/or activities, ideally, this is with their mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to their need for people, activities, causes and unwilling to share their interest in others.

    Sexual moves to Social The sexual subtype (one on one) will seek the greater world or social arena to find a desired mate. The sexual subtype is normally happy tucked away in a secluded setting with one significant other. However, when alone or in search of a mate, this subtype will behave much more like the social subtype. One must be with others to find ?the other?. Once the mate is selected, the social activity will be replaced by the dominant drive for time spent in union with the other one on one. At first the sexual subtype may spend time with the potential mate in the company of others. They become a pair even in groups. Then when the passion for deeper connection is ignited the sexual subtype will want to bond totally with their desired other. When the mate is determined, the sexual subtype will return to one on one style of relating. Ideally, this is intense time spent with the desired other or mate. An area of pain and disappointment for this subtype is when they have a mate that is unwilling to pay attention to their degree of connection and intimately share their deepest and innermost thoughts.
    ?1996 Katherine Chernick-Fauvre
    This self pres seduction style tends to be biased towards a sp/sx variant stacking, the social seduction style tends to be more biased towards a so/sp variant stacking, and the sx seduction style tends to be biased towards a sx/so seduction style. However, what is ironic is that the sexual seduction style fits my seduction style to a T.

  8. #28
    Junior Member sarahmariev's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say that I've ever seduced anyone per se, but I'd say as an SO/SP that my style is stealth: get close to someone socially (become a friend and confidante), then make my move. Sometimes I feel like the Taylor Swift of seductresses though, since I'm not particularly good at it.

  9. #29
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarahmariev View Post
    I wouldn't say that I've ever seduced anyone per se, but I'd say as an SO/SP that my style is stealth: get close to someone socially (become a friend and confidante), then make my move. Sometimes I feel like the Taylor Swift of seductresses though, since I'm not particularly good at it.
    That's funny because all that I ever think about is seducing women. Whenever I go to a new place, one of the first things that I notice are all the possible women that I could possibly have chemistry with. It's like this is all that I care about.

  10. #30
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I'm not sure about how sp/so seduces people.
    Sp/so seduction style looks like friendship with benefits. They will offer food and gifts to someone they like, or any other items that signal comfort and prosperity, as well as their own company and conversation about cultural, political, and popular topics. Since they don't like getting into all the wet sx stuff, their relationships are often calm and discreet and based on exchange of material goods and shared social values. The difference between them and so/sp stacking is that sp/so will often directly share material goods to demonstrate their level of prosperity rather than only talking about it to impress the other person with their social status and connections.

    A group of sp/so's socializing looks like farmers gathered to celebrating the harvest and other gifts of their land. They table is stuffed with all kinds of food, there is exchange of goods, social inclusion and loud formal toasts.


    Sx/sp are good at dropping and reading subtle sexual innuendos without overtly talking about their affections. Sp/sx and so/sx are the most open and direct stackings when it comes to seduction and voicing how they feel, but also not as permanent with their attachments as are sx/sp and sx/so.
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