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  1. #21
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    That's funny to read because I'd totally see it as a failure. I arranged a birthday party when I had my birthday this year and I invited my close family to come. So I decided to prepare by having a cake to offer and so on but the problem was that I didn't have time to finish the cake. I considered it a catastrophe and a failure (let alone I felt incredibly incompetent at party hosting which just reinforced my feelings that this is not one of my strengths and I shouldn't do it again).
    !!

    I'm sure I would have felt similarly, initially -- but I think the difference is that if my friends/family reassured me that it wasn't a big deal, then I would trust them on that and wouldn't beat myself up about it too much. (But if they seemed like they didn't have a good time, I would have reacted exactly the same way that you did!) I'm guessing this is so-last vs. so-first, i.e. if external validation wouldn't have mattered to you, in deciding the severity/importance of what had happened with the cake.

    Edit: That was presuming that your family was understanding and nice about it -- which I probably should not have presumed. I hope they were understanding and nice about it! Were they?
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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  2. #22
    Member RoadPaveMent's Avatar
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    I actually do desire close, deep relationships (socionics Fi-dom?), I'm just not up for them at this time in my life.

    Intensity can turn me off. I have an Se-dom sx-dom friend (ex-roommate, currently in my dorm) and I don't want to know when someone's having a bad day because it upsets me. But you can always tell if she's having a bad day. So I try to avoid her but I still get guilt / worrying pains when I see her upset.

    I had another Se-dom sx-dom friend, and when we got in an argument, she cried really really hard and ripped up a note I tried to give her, glaring at me and stomping away. To me, it was overdramatic, although to her, it was appropriately responding. She never considered my feelings about our hurt friendship after that, only her own. Other people who knew what was going on between us did think she was overreacting quite a bit.

    One exception I have from people's lists is that I am not as in check with my body (inferior Se?). I have chronic muscular pain and I'm constantly being asked to rate my pain on a scale, if my pain has improved since the last appt, or how I'm feeling today. I DON'T KNOW! I HURT! I ALWAYS HURT! WHY DO I NEED TO KNOW MY LEVEL OF HURT AT EVERY SECOND OF THE DAY??

    One thing I do agree with is that I am a boring person.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    my blindspot is SP, and i recently made a post to someone who thought i was sx/sp which answers this pretty well:
    sp's don't go skating highschool trusting that they'd always figure out a way to get out of trouble.
    HAHAH. I took honors classes in high school, made As on tests and papers a lot of the time, and failed my homework or skipped class a little too often, which balanced itself out to me graduating with a C average. When I graduated, I didn't think I could spend one more second in school, so I didn't go to college until I had worked, been in a relationship, and traveled...I was well into my 20s, and for years I had nightmares I couldn't graduate high school, though I actually did graduate. I've had this "delayed reaction" to my counterphobic behaviors for years, like being really reckless as a teen, then around 23 developing panic attacks.

    sp's in the military requested for officer training don't easily throw away the most stable career route.
    sp's don't quit jobs and travel on their last cents again & again to deal with it when they come back.
    I've quit so many jobs, moved across the country 4 times, and yeah...

    sp's don't invest their own money into their own startup companies when they have nothing but debt.
    sp's sexual tendencies aren't likely to tie in with exhibitionism, being caught, or dancing around sharing/cuckold.
    Ha ha...I worked in the adult entertainment industry.

    sp's don't climb out of debt by going to a new country to learn a new skill they have no idea if they are good at.
    sp's don't fight with their apartment-providing job's bosses when they know it means being homeless for awhile.
    sp's don't propose after 4 months of knowing someone thinking "i want to be with her forever anyway, why not?"
    lol...I hope you were really young when you did the last one...

    sp's don't immigrate without a work visa knowing they'll be dependent economically on someone completely.

    sp's don't develop loving parental relationships with a child that can be taken from them on someone else's whim.
    Yeah I don't relate at all to sp guardedness with feelings, especially as an sx dom. I probably find E5 sp dom to be the most difficult to relate to person, but maybe only after E1 sp dom.

    I mean I could potentially scare the crap out of these people!

  4. #24
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    !!

    I'm sure I would have felt similarly, initially -- but I think the difference is that if my friends/family reassured me that it wasn't a big deal, then I would trust them on that and wouldn't beat myself up about it too much. (But if they seemed like they didn't have a good time, I would have reacted exactly the same way that you did!) I'm guessing this is so-last vs. so-first, i.e. if external validation wouldn't have mattered to you, in deciding the severity/importance of what had happened with the cake.

    Edit: That was presuming that your family was understanding and nice about it -- which I probably should not have presumed. I hope they were understanding and nice about it! Were they?
    Totally. My family reassured me and said it was just fine and one of my older cousins tried to make this remark that hey, it's like this kind of cake (not a cake in the English sense but like a soft cake) so it's nice but I was still like, "no, it's a total failure" deep inside. Probably doesn't help that I'm a competency type so when I really feel that I fail at something I think I fail pretty badly. I think if this had been about something else which didn't regard instinctual blind spot I would probably have cheered myself up and thought it's ok because I know I'm bad but in this case I just feel a lot of shame in relation to it also which I read is common when it comes to things regarding your blind spot since you perceive it as an apparent weakness.

    I mean just thinking about it still makes me feel terrible XD On the other hand, had it been successful (in my eyes), I would probably have done the complete opposite and felt I'm so awesome at party hosting similar to when I figure out some social dynamic and I feel like I'm so smart for doing it.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  5. #25
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ^

    This.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  6. #26
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoadPaveMent View Post
    Intensity can turn me off. I have an Se-dom sx-dom friend (ex-roommate, currently in my dorm) and I don't want to know when someone's having a bad day because it upsets me. But you can always tell if she's having a bad day. So I try to avoid her but I still get guilt / worrying pains when I see her upset.
    This might actually provide a grounds for one example of my SO blind-spot (which I still don't fully understand, but I'm certain that SO is my blind-spot).

    I've sometimes found out years later that someone else, or a group of people, found me too intense. I am very aware of the feelings of individual people, especially if I care about them; so if someone displayed emotion that showed me they were annoyed or aggravated, I would have noticed. However, I'm not always looking out for social cues, which is different from emotional cues, I think. If people don't have particular feelings about it that I can read, but instead, think in their minds "this person is such an intense jackass" - I won't notice. I don't care what people think of me unless I care about them personally; and I actually find it flattering when someone I don't care about talks about me behind my back or finds room in their hearts to hate me. So I have no reason to look for signals like this.

    I guess that's an So blind spot?
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  7. #27
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane
    sp's don't invest their own money into their own startup companies when they have nothing but debt.
    sp's don't fight with their apartment-providing job's bosses when they know it means being homeless for awhile.
    sp's don't propose after 4 months of knowing someone thinking "i want to be with her forever anyway, why not?"
    I've done the first two essentially, and the last I might have done except I'm not a woman who would propose (but I'd probably accept that soon into something if it "felt right"). Some of this is Pe... But I do think my Pe gets inhibited in some ways by being sp-dom. I'd love to up & go to another country with no real plan or safety net for income & housing. But a part of me doesn't feel so confident in my ability to improvise, which Pe-dom have a better handle on.

    Let's just keep in mind that sp-dom is not necessarily being stable or responsible, especially when you take core type into account.

    I'm basically living in a guest room right now with no desire to set roots in a place of my own, half my stuff in storage, and after years of no steady work, I argue with my boss & take other liberties many would call reckless (I feel like bosses always love me more when I'm unapologetically authentic though; never been fired yet!). However, when I'm jobless I hustle & bustle to get income (whether successful or not). It becomes a focus to provide "independence" for myself. Once I feel some sense of it, I don't even necessarily use it (hence the guest room). The same with food - I just like to know it's there, and once I do, then I may forget to eat.

    Anyhow, so last for me means:

    - You're unaware of all of your social failures until they begin to impede meeting your sp & sx drives (uh oh... I have no network to find work or a lover!). You didn't even know you were on the outside looking in....

    - You don't care about who is dating who or whatever dynamics are happening between people in a group. You don't even really understand these dynamics; it all looks silly to you. Often, you're oblivious to it all. You may only pick up on intimate dynamics between you & someone else.

    - You'd rather be excited by someone than comfortable with them. Being comfortable in a group is especially dull & tedious. You either want to be alone & detached or enraptured by someone. Moderating your responses to be palatable is a challenge, a chore, & something you're not great at. If you're sp-dom, then you choose detachment a lot & seem to talk "at" people.

    - You have trouble seeing the value of "reputation", have little to no awareness of your own rep, and don't put much stock in acknowledging others' reps (taking people at face value, sometimes to your detriment). Popularity means almost nothing to you.

    - You're unaware of status & don't put stock in it, so any material sp related interests are very personal & about meeting individual needs

    - Your home is set up to be comfortable to yourself, not company...you don't think in terms of "entertaining"

    - You're unaware of your own influence on a group, and you may inadvertently be seen as a rebel force or a leader or an expert (because you unwittingly send out some signal that you're willing/able to do it).

    - You're a loner, and it's not just because of shyness...

    - You've never been a part of any clique or social circle & you've never cared to be.

    - You can be widely known & active in a community of sorts, but not be a part of any circles within it. You're always on the fringe, keeping people at arm's length without even meaning to. Your purpose for being in a group is never to become a "part" of it

    - You're neither suspicious nor trusting of people. You tend to respond to them according to how interesting they are to you & how interesting you are to them.

    - You may blur lines when it comes to social/cultural categories, without being aware of it having any significance or offense to some people

    - You're hot or cold, with little inbetween. You tend to talk at people in a disconnected way or magnetize & become magnetized, but casual, friendly interaction is hard.

    - You refuse to get "involved" because you can't see the point of it

    - It's almost impossible to snub you because you neither care nor even really notice

    - Politics are a big snooze fest. You might as well live under a rock when it comes to current events & celebrity gossip.

    - SO types can seem full of BS but also "magical" with the way they bond comfortably or influence others

    - You may assume people do/don't like you more than they do because you don't notice or understand signs of approval/disapproval. You may assume "invisibleness" too.

    - You have to be careful not to always be a voice of dissent. You often fail to grasp the bonding processes people use to form social connections, so you don't jump on the "consensus bandwagon". You unwittingly make yourself an opposing force, someone for people to band against (this was a hard lesson in elementary school; I quickly withdrew once I experienced its effects)

    Most of this is summed up as a lack of awareness of social dynamics, and then sometimes not caring even when aware because of a devaluing of its benefits. Also, comfort is not in "belonging", but in being an individual, as people relations are seen as something to excite & stir things up.

    I think some is definitely related to core type & MBTI also... but this is how I experience so-last.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #28
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybe View Post
    This might actually provide a grounds for one example of my SO blind-spot (which I still don't fully understand, but I'm certain that SO is my blind-spot).

    I've sometimes found out years later that someone else, or a group of people, found me too intense. I am very aware of the feelings of individual people, especially if I care about them; so if someone displayed emotion that showed me they were annoyed or aggravated, I would have noticed. However, I'm not always looking out for social cues, which is different from emotional cues, I think. If people don't have particular feelings about it that I can read, but instead, think in their minds "this person is such an intense jackass" - I won't notice. I don't care what people think of me unless I care about them personally; and I actually find it flattering when someone I don't care about talks about me behind my back or finds room in their hearts to hate me. So I have no reason to look for signals like this.

    I guess that's an So blind spot?
    Haha, I relate to this a lot too. There's a certain level of flattery in having people being so upset by your existence that you can't help but to like it.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  9. #29
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Interesting list @OrangeAppled. That fits with a lot of the Sp/Sx and Sx/Sp people I know.

    To copy your style...

    When you're Sx last:

    - You're pretty easy-going and aren't too flummoxed when things are less than perfect. You think most people get too riled up about things that don't really matter much. Sometimes, while others are tearing their hair out, you can just shrug your shoulders and say, "oh well" and let it go.

    - When you are stressed, it typically doesn't show on the outside. You can seem more calm and relaxed than you really are.

    - You tend to keep your emotions in check. You don't like to lose your temper easily or burden others by breaking down.

    - You find a lot of people to be self-indulgent in their unwillingness to curb their behaviour or emotions. You don't like to complain or cause too much bother unnecessarily, and would rather others didn't either.

    - You're inclined to adapt to the situation. You not too fussed about most things and don't care too much about getting your way.

    - You're pretty obliging and people sometimes take advantage of that. You can end up being a doormat at times.

    - You're a pretty balanced, even-keeled individual. Even if you're a exuberant extrovert, you manage to keep a sort of consistency to your behaviour that people find comforting.

    - You're tend to live relatively conservatively. You don't regularly engage in outlandish activities or dress in a way that stands out too much. Although, now and then, you can really surprise people.

    - You recognise the value of the simple pleasures in life.

    - People can find you bland and detached at times. You may wish you had more natural charm and charisma.

    - You spread yourself broadly in terms of your interests. You're open-minded and have tried a little bit of everything: sports, music, films, books, food, cultures, people etc. You usually don't put too much stock in a single area of interest. You don't typically obsess over, say, a single author or genre of film, in such a way that excludes alternative styles or experiences.

    - You struggle with intimacy and affection at times. You may crave closeness with others but can find it difficult to achieve it. You can feel easily overwhelmed when people demand too much from you. You prefer relationships that are more like romantic friendships.

    - You rarely speak passionately about things that really matter to you, and can sound a little rehearsed when you do. You prefer not to openly demonstrate strength of feeling to prove how much you care about something or someone.

    - People tend to like you - or at least they don't tend to dislike you. You're not the sort of person people HATE.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  10. #30
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    To copy your style...

    When you're Sx last:

    - You're pretty easy-going and aren't too flummoxed when things are less than perfect. You think most people get too riled up about things that don't really matter much. Sometimes, while others are tearing their hair out, you can just shrug your shoulders and say, "oh well" and let it go.

    Yes, for me this is generally true but I don't think it would be so true for social 1's (or any 1's for that matter)

    - When you are stressed, it typically doesn't show on the outside. You can seem more calm and relaxed than you really are.

    Yes, generally true until I get into an inferior Fe episode.

    - You tend to keep your emotions in check. You don't like to lose your temper easily or burden others by breaking down.

    Yes

    - You find a lot of people to be self-indulgent in their unwillingness to curb their behaviour or emotions. You don't like to complain or cause too much bother unnecessarily, and would rather others didn't either.

    Yes, very much true

    - You're inclined to adapt to the situation. You not too fussed about most things and don't care too much about getting your way.

    For the most part, yes

    - You're pretty obliging and people sometimes take advantage of that. You can end up being a doormat at times.

    In some situations, yes. I don't see myself obliging to the point of being a doormat though. That sounds more like enneagram 9. I think my SP variant also keeps it in check too. I think a strong Social variant with weak SP may be more prone to this.

    - You're a pretty balanced, even-keeled individual. Even if you're a exuberant extrovert, you manage to keep a sort of consistency to your behaviour that people find comforting.

    Yes. Some may think I'm kind of boring but I disagree.

    - You're tend to live relatively conservatively. You don't regularly engage in outlandish activities or dress in a way that stands out too much. Although, now and then, you can really surprise people.

    Yes, very true.

    - You recognise the value of the simple pleasures in life.

    Yes

    - People can find you bland and detached at times. You may wish you had more natural charm and charisma.

    Yes, very much so

    - You spread yourself broadly in terms of your interests. You're open-minded and have tried a little bit of everything: sports, music, films, books, food, cultures, people etc. You usually don't put too much stock in a single area of interest. You don't typically obsess over, say, a single author or genre of film, in such a way that excludes alternative styles or experiences.

    Partly yes/partly no. There are a few interests like personality theory that I'm intensely passionate about and go deep with. In other areas of life, it's more broad. Like with music, for example, if you were to ask me what my top 5 favorite music artists are, I wouldn't even know where to begin answering that question. There's too many of them to name. I guess I like alot of different music but don't really get overly infatuated with any one particular musician or band.

    Similar thing with books. I'm an avid reader but really it ends up being more like a fun diversion for me. I'm not really the sort of person who has books that change my life or anything like that. I read many different authors without being overly obsessed with any particular one.

    However, there's lots of things in life I've never tried. Some things, I'm reluctant to- usually SP or SO overrides it. Too unsafe, too expensive (SP reasons) or don't want to make a fool of myself (SO reasons)

    - You struggle with intimacy and affection at times. You may crave closeness with others but can find it difficult to achieve it. You can feel easily overwhelmed when people demand too much from you. You prefer relationships that are more like romantic friendships.

    Yes, very much so

    - You rarely speak passionately about things that really matter to you, and can sound a little rehearsed when you do. You prefer not to openly demonstrate strength of feeling to prove how much you care about something or someone.

    Yes. I will speak out about a few things I feel passionate about and have done so on the forum but I think I have to be provoked and even then I may come across as somewhat emotionally detached- or try to. I think enneagram type also plays a role- I'm a 5.

    - People tend to like you - or at least they don't tend to dislike you. You're not the sort of person people HATE.

    In general yes. I think most people mildly like me or are indifferent towards me. At the very least, I'm generally one of those kind, inoffensive sorts of people. A few may dislike me but I don't think very many genuinely HATE me.
    INtp
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