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  1. #11
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I'd have thought e2 would be the most "feminine" (at least stereotypically so).
    perhaps stereotypically 2w1, but to me it seems more motherly than feminine.
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    i dont know what all your blabbering about the Fi was about, but isfp's are still the most psychologically sensitive type.
    I am actually blabbering on about something very important, namely the reason why the ISFP is actually called an ISFP and not any other random name you can come up with. The reason for this is that Myers-Briggs based her work on Jung's book Psychology Types where Jung describes in great detail how there are 4 different functions with 2 different attitude sets each resulting with a total of what we lazily refer to as 8 functions in typology land, even though this is actually incorrect because Jung did not describe 8 functions, he described 8 function attitudes.

    Jung being very inspired by Freud (although he hated the man) wanted to develop a theory of the human psyche which was based on Freud's early idea of the conscious-unconscious, id ego and superego. What Jung thus proposed was that the human psyche is made up of our consciousness and unconsciousness and the conscious part of our psyche is represented by our ego. Being inspired by various forms of esoteric and mystic thought, Jung also assumed that the human psyche is in possession of 4 different ways to understand the world around us: thinking, feeling, intuition and sensation. Jung further assumed that during the development of a child, the child will eventually come to prefer one of these ways to understand world by identifying the ego with the function itself. Jung also noted these functions could in turn take on two different attitudes: introversion and extroversion, and he explained that the difference between them is where our ego focus is oriented. If our ego focus is oriented towards the objective and external world it is extraverted because the focus is to look outside the self, but if the ego focus is on one's internal world then the ego focus is introverted. In order to delineate the functions into their respective function attitudes, Jung thus choose to call feeling as either extroverted feeling or introverted feeling. Because this is very long to write out, we have shortened it down to Fe and Fi respectively.

    When Myers-Briggs made the MBTI, what they thus did was to take Jung's original work and streamline it into single letter combinations. I/E represents introversion-extroversion, S/N sensation and intuition and T/F thinking and feeling. However, this does not explain the functional preference so she decided to add another letter code, J/P, which focuses on the first extroverted function, because Myers-Briggs proposed that in order to achieve a healthy perspective of th world, the psyche must accept another function as a part of the ego preference with an opposite attitude and function role than the dominant function. This is how we arrive at the ISFP letter code because the ISFP type has a preference towards Fi-Se-Ni-Te in this function order. Without you actually understanding this fundamental aspect of the MBTI, I am afraid that any behaviors, traits and stereotypes you wish to ascribe a certain type will have zero value since they are just that, your personal projections onto said type but does not actually reflect the actual reality of the type itself.

    some, but girly is more pure, innocent, while feminine is more mature and has that bitch like confidence in emotional wisdom.
    So in other words, they just fall on different places on the femininity scale.

    im talking about the classical ideal feminity, which has spread far further than just christianity cause its hundreds of years old view.
    and i think its also the stereotype of feminity, at least in my culture.
    You didn't answer the question. What does femininity actually mean to you? How is it depicted as? Are you Catholic, Protestant or anything else? I have a vague idea of you coming from South America though.

    my rigidity is just unhealthy so sx behavior, we tend to become cold rational bitches when we lose our positivism due various reasons. also being an I__J might emphasize it rather boldly.
    No, not really. If you are an INxJ type, your dominant ego function is a perceiving one (S/N) and those with dominant perception are irrational because they have no conscious control of their perceptions. This overall makes them far less likely to be judgemental in contrast to say, an ExFJ or even IxTP because their dominant function is irrational, not judging.

    and i havent been reading any profiles, ive long been through that phase and now my theories are entirely based on face to face observations.
    Your observations mean very little without any theory backing it up. This statement here just further emphasizes your cognitive extroverted bias.

    and i know i should be more accepting, but my heart is numb, cause it has suffered too much pain.
    This sounds like a bad excuse for you to continue being the way you are.

    look up from google "dark so sx" and the first links have pretty good data on unhealthy so sx's.
    I could but I doubt it would say much to me to be honest. I think it's more relevant to look into how the counter-nature of the instincts when they take a neurotic behavior. An example is how my sx is anti-sx by rejecting all things sx and see it as wrong or stupid. An unhealthy so/sx type would just likely be someone who is fiercely critical of their own society probably in relation to the sexual values represented in it. Makes me wonder if the society you live in is promoting a) an extremely promiscuous attitude towards sex or b) doing the completely opposite. The end result is that you still probably project like a clusterfuck in this thread to repress your own sexual desires.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    So I googled "dark so/sx" and yes, it turns out meaning little. I am not even sure by what description you go on here as there are plenty of threads to find about this, but if you mean the one at Enneagram Institute, as the poster below pointed out, it just sounded as mostly very neurotic 4-behavior (the most strongly associated to the borderline personality disorder according to Naranjo). So if you suffer all those issues described in the OP, I would re-evaluate your core type and/or tritype as 4 would be an arguable influence in you then.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I am actually blabbering on about something very important, namely the reason why the ISFP is actually called an ISFP and not any other random name you can come up with. The reason for this is that Myers-Briggs based her work on Jung's book Psychology Types where Jung describes in great detail how there are 4 different functions with 2 different attitude sets each resulting with a total of what we lazily refer to as 8 functions in typology land, even though this is actually incorrect because Jung did not describe 8 functions, he described 8 function attitudes.

    Jung being very inspired by Freud (although he hated the man) wanted to develop a theory of the human psyche which was based on Freud's early idea of the conscious-unconscious, id ego and superego. What Jung thus proposed was that the human psyche is made up of our consciousness and unconsciousness and the conscious part of our psyche is represented by our ego. Being inspired by various forms of esoteric and mystic thought, Jung also assumed that the human psyche is in possession of 4 different ways to understand the world around us: thinking, feeling, intuition and sensation. Jung further assumed that during the development of a child, the child will eventually come to prefer one of these ways to understand world by identifying the ego with the function itself. Jung also noted these functions could in turn take on two different attitudes: introversion and extroversion, and he explained that the difference between them is where our ego focus is oriented. If our ego focus is oriented towards the objective and external world it is extraverted because the focus is to look outside the self, but if the ego focus is on one's internal world then the ego focus is introverted. In order to delineate the functions into their respective function attitudes, Jung thus choose to call feeling as either extroverted feeling or introverted feeling. Because this is very long to write out, we have shortened it down to Fe and Fi respectively.

    When Myers-Briggs made the MBTI, what they thus did was to take Jung's original work and streamline it into single letter combinations. I/E represents introversion-extroversion, S/N sensation and intuition and T/F thinking and feeling. However, this does not explain the functional preference so she decided to add another letter code, J/P, which focuses on the first extroverted function, because Myers-Briggs proposed that in order to achieve a healthy perspective of th world, the psyche must accept another function as a part of the ego preference with an opposite attitude and function role than the dominant function. This is how we arrive at the ISFP letter code because the ISFP type has a preference towards Fi-Se-Ni-Te in this function order. Without you actually understanding this fundamental aspect of the MBTI, I am afraid that any behaviors, traits and stereotypes you wish to ascribe a certain type will have zero value since they are just that, your personal projections onto said type but does not actually reflect the actual reality of the type itself.



    So in other words, they just fall on different places on the femininity scale.





    This sounds like a bad excuse for you to continue being the way you are.
    "Without you actually understanding this fundamental aspect of the MBTI"

    i dont know where youre getting these assumptions, i consider these things as obvious so thats it of me not understanding. its not the functions which explain isfp's super vulnerability, its the total, the whole deal, not just some few functions, but them all operating together.

    "You didn't answer the question. What does femininity actually mean to you? How is it depicted as? Are you Catholic, Protestant or anything else? I have a vague idea of you coming from South America though."

    in short, any female infj is the image of ideal feminity to me. and nope, im finnish.

    "No, not really. If you are an INxJ type, your dominant ego function is a perceiving one (S/N) and those with dominant perception are irrational because they have no conscious control of their perceptions. This overall makes them far less likely to be judgemental in contrast to say, an ExFJ or even IxTP because their dominant function is irrational, not judging."

    perhaps so, i do have noticed dominant judgers tend to be firm on their judgments, but same time it seems to me they make such a HUGE number of judgments which creates a person open to all kinds of judgments. perhaps its then that no control over my perception which makes them so convincing to me, making it hard to question them. for example, my most recent problem is that i experience a feeling which goes beyound everything i understand, like its just supernatural, and i know its what christians call god, but i call it me. although it still baffles me greatly, why cant i just understand it perfectly? i know its the social energy of so sx, cause sx is the individual so social energy comes before individual for so sx which makes it very baffling. aka why many so sx are into buddhism, new age, hippieism, etc. it feels kind of really annoying knowing my feelings are so open, that i have absolutely no privacy over them cause my social instinct broadcasts them.. which creates hell alot of responsibility over my feelings so my feelings wouldnt be misunderstood. and that whole thing makes it all so damn annoyingly serious business, why cant i just be myself?

    "Your observations mean very little without any theory backing it up. This statement here just further emphasizes your cognitive extroverted bias."

    are you saying im an extrovert? lol, im 100% certain im an infj, i have absoluely no doubt, cause i have so much personal proof. same goes to me being 9w1 and so sx. and no theory backing up? you know, i have the opposite problem, im always TOO theoretical about everything. it wouldnt be a bad thing if my theories can keep up to my observations. but often i get more data than i can understand, and then im overwhelmed.

    "I could but I doubt it would say much to me to be honest. I think it's more relevant to look into how the counter-nature of the instincts when they take a neurotic behavior. An example is how my sx is anti-sx by rejecting all things sx and see it as wrong or stupid. An unhealthy so/sx type would just likely be someone who is fiercely critical of their own society probably in relation to the sexual values represented in it. Makes me wonder if the society you live in is promoting a) an extremely promiscuous attitude towards sex or b) doing the completely opposite. The end result is that you still probably project like a clusterfuck in this thread to repress your own sexual desires."

    yes i know that phenomena, its called the unhealthy manifestation of instincts. i too am an anti So in the way that i reject the tender energy of my So in fear of being overwhelmed by it. and yeah, i do hate this culture and its obsessive sexual values. i just find the way sexuality is viewed in this culture as inherently deeply disgusting and self centered behaviour. but i do have found my own sexual path with which im completely proud to be in, which is that of demisexuality (attraction to person rather than their body). considering you even know of unhealthy instincts behaviour, i wonder why you havent yet figured your own type. perhaps its because you look too much into detail and thus fail to see the big picture. i also think there are really much more demisexuals than just those who know they are, its just that it isnt widely known so there are many demisexuals who just dont know a name for their sexuality, and seeking it from the known superficial sexualities will only get your head messed up.
    so i do think your abilities are impressive, but i think your weakness is in seeing it all as a single picture.

    "So I googled "dark so/sx" and yes, it turns out meaning little. I am not even sure by what description you go on here as there are plenty of threads to find about this, but if you mean the one at Enneagram Institute, as the poster below pointed out, it just sounded as mostly very neurotic 4-behavior (the most strongly associated to the borderline personality disorder according to Naranjo). So if you suffer all those issues described in the OP, I would re-evaluate your core type and/or tritype as 4 would be an arguable influence in you then"

    i have been thinking four could be my secondary, its rather weak, but i _know_ i have that 4w3 drive in me, its just so weak.. although that 7w6 drive in me has been feeling much stronger than my 4w3 lately. i do want my tender feelings, the w5 side of 4w3, but i find it extremely hard to motivate myself into feelings i consider even slightly negative. although that could also be my nine..

    well, in short i would say so sx when unhealthy, becomes anti social bitch much like sp sx. and for me its all about that faith in humanity. no faith, and i become bitch. im also certain that each insinct starts to look like the one they hate most when unhealthy, the two other combinations being sx so - sp so and sx sp - so sp.
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    i dont know where youre getting these assumptions, i consider these things as obvious so thats it of me not understanding. its not the functions which explain isfp's super vulnerability, its the total, the whole deal, not just some few functions, but them all operating together.
    You are stereotyping type with behavior. It doesn't work like that. Try to convince the majority of the MBTI folks why I'm an INFP. Good luck with that. Jung wouldn't flinch once though.

    in short, any female infj is the image of ideal feminity to me. and nope, im finnish.
    That still says zip to me since there's a wide variety of INFJs to be found. See, the reason why I think you're more likely to be Fe dominant is because of assumptions like these. You assume that since this is true for all the observed traits I've seen in other people, it must be true for me and for people as a whole. This is extroverted judging bias. Those with with a preference towards cognitive introversion are more likely to realize that things are not always true in a generalized sense, that each context is different and thus warrants a different conclusion.

    perhaps so, i do have noticed dominant judgers tend to be firm on their judgments, but same time it seems to me they make such a HUGE number of judgments which creates a person open to all kinds of judgments.
    This doesn't make a lot of sense...
    perhaps its then that no control over my perception which makes them so convincing to me, making it hard to question them. for example, my most recent problem is that i experience a feeling which goes beyound everything i understand, like its just supernatural, and i know its what christians call god, but i call it me. although it still baffles me greatly, why cant i just understand it perfectly?
    That just sounds like intuition to me. If you find that this experience of intuition is different or strange from what you know, then I'd wonder if your intuition is a part of your unconscious.

    i know its the social energy of so sx, cause sx is the individual so social energy comes before individual for so sx which makes it very baffling. aka why many so sx are into buddhism, new age, hippieism, etc. it feels kind of really annoying knowing my feelings are so open, that i have absolutely no privacy over them cause my social instinct broadcasts them.. which creates hell alot of responsibility over my feelings so my feelings wouldnt be misunderstood. and that whole thing makes it all so damn annoyingly serious business, why cant i just be myself?
    I don't see what any of you write here has anything to do with soc or sx.

    are you saying im an extrovert?
    You can be a cognitive extrovert but social introvert no problem.

    lol, im 100% certain im an infj, i have absoluely no doubt, cause i have so much personal proof. same goes to me being 9w1 and so sx. and no theory backing up? you know, i have the opposite problem, im always TOO theoretical about everything. it wouldnt be a bad thing if my theories can keep up to my observations. but often i get more data than i can understand, and then im overwhelmed.
    Intuition has nothing to do with the ability or interest to be theoretical or not. It's about the ability to notice and see larger patterns by rejecting sensation out of our conscious psyche.
    yes i know that phenomena, its called the unhealthy manifestation of instincts. i too am an anti So in the way that i reject the tender energy of my So in fear of being overwhelmed by it. and yeah, i do hate this culture and its obsessive sexual values. i just find the way sexuality is viewed in this culture as inherently deeply disgusting and self centered behaviour. but i do have found my own sexual path with which im completely proud to be in, which is that of demisexuality (attraction to person rather than their body). considering you even know of unhealthy instincts behaviour,
    Pretty much what I expected then.

    i wonder why you havent yet figured your own type. perhaps its because you look too much into detail and thus fail to see the big picture.
    That's hilarious actually. I know my type but the reason why I am not expressing my type is because people interpret the system differently. In MBTI land I'm an INTP, in Jungian land an INFP. Thus, I'm an Ji-Ne type really and ths is the most easily expressed using the MBTI letter code by replacing the T/F with an X so people can fill in the blank however they want.

    i also think there are really much more demisexuals than just those who know they are, its just that it isnt widely known so there are many demisexuals who just dont know a name for their sexuality, and seeking it from the known superficial sexualities will only get your head messed up.
    so i do think your abilities are impressive, but i think your weakness is in seeing it all as a single picture.
    Demisexuals still experience sexual attraction. It is just not the primary form of attraction. Hint: I'm demisexual.

    i have been thinking four could be my secondary, its rather weak, but i _know_ i have that 4w3 drive in me, its just so weak.. although that 7w6 drive in me has been feeling much stronger than my 4w3 lately. i do want my tender feelings, the w5 side of 4w3, but i find it extremely hard to motivate myself into feelings i consider even slightly negative. although that could also be my nine..
    You sound quite whiney to be a 9 though. 9s would tend to try to slant things in a positive manner in some way. I am not sure I am seeing this tendency in you at all yet.

    well, in short i would say so sx when unhealthy, becomes anti social bitch much like sp sx. and for me its all about that faith in humanity. no faith, and i become bitch. im also certain that each insinct starts to look like the one they hate most when unhealthy, the two other combinations being sx so - sp so and sx sp - so sp.
    That's why they can become neurotic when we are unable to satisfy our dominant instinct desires.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  6. #16
    Member Garthur17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post
    i just have noticed that even a very masculine type, entp,(male) was surprisingly feminine as i met one with 7w6 and so sx. although i dont know if it was just cause 7w6 too is the most feminine enneagram and so sx the most feminine instinct.

    but can there be remotely masculine so sx if T type and not enneagram 7w6, nine or four? although 7w8 too has that boyish childish gleam to them, although not feminine. 9w8 isnt really that feminine either, more like gayish. i just happen to have them all in my triad, am an F type, and so sx, but male? lucky me? =]

    i imagine a masculine so sx would be that grumpy soft eyed person with a soft side. maybe im now describing so sp? =|, sigh.

    like terrador of spyro:Attachment 9108 and Attachment 9109 (the green dragon)
    i didn't read the whole thread. but as far as i know i am SO/SX.. a thinking type and an enneagram 3..

  7. #17
    Member Garthur17's Avatar
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    was my post even relevant to the discussion?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Vilku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    You are stereotyping type with behavior. It doesn't work like that. Try to convince the majority of the MBTI folks why I'm an INFP. Good luck with that. Jung wouldn't flinch once though.

    That still says zip to me since there's a wide variety of INFJs to be found. See, the reason why I think you're more likely to be Fe dominant is because of assumptions like these. You assume that since this is true for all the observed traits I've seen in other people, it must be true for me and for people as a whole. This is extroverted judging bias. Those with with a preference towards cognitive introversion are more likely to realize that things are not always true in a generalized sense, that each context is different and thus warrants a different conclusion.

    This doesn't make a lot of sense...




    Intuition has nothing to do with the ability or interest to be theoretical or not. It's about the ability to notice and see larger patterns by rejecting sensation out of our conscious psyche.

    That's why they can become neurotic when we are unable to satisfy our dominant instinct desires.
    "I don't see what any of you write here has anything to do with soc or sx.
    You can be a cognitive extrovert but social introvert no problem. "

    then you dont see the feeling dimension behind instincts. you see, instincts dictate how we feel.
    i think im quite the opposite, an introvert yet i know my mental health depends itself on other people. i just go totally nuts if i allow myself to be an anti social.

    "Demisexuals still experience sexual attraction. It is just not the primary form of attraction."

    yep, i rather lust after peoples personalities (not just their types, but overall everything that has to do with it, like instincts and enneagram and how they carry all that out.)

    "That just sounds like intuition to me. If you find that this experience of intuition is different or strange from what you know, then I'd wonder if your intuition is a part of your unconscious."

    before i was mentally ill, i used to consider them as simply my feelings, but now that ive deprived myself of my social energy for so long, it just.. feels unnatural to me.

    "Pretty much what I expected then.
    That's hilarious actually. I know my type but the reason why I am not expressing my type is because people interpret the system differently. In MBTI land I'm an INTP, in Jungian land an INFP. Thus, I'm an Ji-Ne type really and ths is the most easily expressed using the MBTI letter code by replacing the T/F with an X so people can fill in the blank however they want."

    UMM.. thats not how the mbti works. we have types, and whatever your type is, influences your behaviour largely and its also written in stone, firmly. you can only be one, and nothing else.

    "You sound quite whiney to be a 9 though. 9s would tend to try to slant things in a positive manner in some way. I am not sure I am seeing this tendency in you at all yet."

    eh, i do tend to fear negativity to such a ridiculous extense that i rather shatter my mind with total ignorance of what bothers me rather than doing something about it.

    when im healthy, im completely different. i become more like the stereotypical so sx, that i smile REALLY, REALLY ALOT! =) and what i meant by stereotypical so sx is the positivism and all that.

    and i do think because im nine it makes me kind of inherently worthless, that itd be so nice to be some other ennea so id have some worth to myself. so, its nice to entertain the other options, but i know theres a dynamic that each ennea likes the adjecent enneas most, and for me i can say i would easily choose 8s and 1s over other enneas as my friends or even a mate. but i do still think 4w3 has a significant influence over me.

    i also think my positivism is more directed towards my feelings than thinking.

    i would also think that i become socially insensitive when unhealthy, thus i dont find much care at all for things in the social realm. which might appear as whiny, as you described?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garthur17 View Post
    was my post even relevant to the discussion?
    if you could describe your masculinity/feminity qualities, then perhaps?
    healthiness is all about appreciating other peoples inferior function. its like the sore spot no one ever notices, but we desperately wish they did, and if you focus on doing that, youll have many friends. and also learn to appreciate your own inferior function, others wont find it stupid if you show them how cool it is.

    INTJ 4w3 Sp Sx. (i dont believe in tritype. i do believe in learning traits from others.)

    mistakes happen. expect them, and grow from them. look for them, and avoid them.

  9. #19
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    This thread is just lol

    I'm So/Sx, I'm not feminine. Done.

    Tho I guess you got me on the gayish. Seems legit.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    For the love of, could you please learn to use the quote function. It's quite fantastic when trying to make sense of what I wrote and what you wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vilku View Post

    then you dont see the feeling dimension behind instincts. you see, instincts dictate how we feel.
    i think im quite the opposite, an introvert yet i know my mental health depends itself on other people. i just go totally nuts if i allow myself to be an anti social.
    If you can't stand to be away from extroverted stimuli, then you are most likely not a social introvert either. And I don't think instincts dictate as much that we feel as it dictates what we look out for in life and find to be important.

    yep, i rather lust after peoples personalities (not just their types, but overall everything that has to do with it, like instincts and enneagram and how they carry all that out.)
    I can't say I lust after people's personalities or their type. I lust after persons. You reduce individuals too much and take away their individual qualities. We are not our types.

    before i was mentally ill, i used to consider them as simply my feelings, but now that ive deprived myself of my social energy for so long, it just.. feels unnatural to me.
    I fail to see the connection between Jungian intuition and social energy unless you mean feeling energized from interacting with the external world which again makes you an extrovert, not an introvert.

    UMM.. thats not how the mbti works. we have types, and whatever your type is, influences your behaviour largely and its also written in stone, firmly. you can only be one, and nothing else.
    We are not our types. Types describe us. MBTI type classifies people differently to how Jung classified people. I think like a Jungian Fi dominant with N as auxiliary. In MBTI letter code it would be INFP. I however score INTP on tests and I relate to the INTP profile. It makes me an INTP. I'm fully neither of these things. My being is too complex to be reduced into a 4 letter code. They can describe parts of me but they cannot describe the totality of me. I understand the system well enough to simply manipulate the 4 letter code so people can read whatever they want from it depending on how they understand the system. I know who I am and what type I am and how I operate. Having you telling me that I lack more personal insight into myself than you do is thus quite hilarious and ironic.
    eh, i do tend to fear negativity to such a ridiculous extense that i rather shatter my mind with total ignorance of what bothers me rather than doing something about it.
    9s don't fear negativity per se.

    when im healthy, im completely different. i become more like the stereotypical so sx, that i smile REALLY, REALLY ALOT! =) and what i meant by stereotypical so sx is the positivism and all that.
    I knew an ENTJ who was so/sx and he was nothing like that when healthy. You ascribe traits unrelated to the instincts.

    and i do think because im nine it makes me kind of inherently worthless, that itd be so nice to be some other ennea so id have some worth to myself.
    Feelings of worthlessness are not feeling I'd attribute to enneatype 9 but those who identify with their superego (1, 2 and 6) and to a degree, 4, since the 4 fear is of having no personal value or significance. In other words, they are worthless.

    so, its nice to entertain the other options, but i know theres a dynamic that each ennea likes the adjecent enneas most, and for me i can say i would easily choose 8s and 1s over other enneas as my friends or even a mate. but i do still think 4w3 has a significant influence over me.
    That's too simplistic a view as there are many reasons why a person would like another person. Enneatype can only describe one aspect of this at best since intertype is not really an explored aspect of the enneagram theory. In general people tend to get along with those who represent the types they got a line of connection with. As a 5, I for example get along great with 8s given that we cognitively also seem to think somewhat similar e.g. favor Ne-Si and Fi-Te as our function preferences.

    i also think my positivism is more directed towards my feelings than thinking.
    So you admit being a feeler. Good job.

    i would also think that i become socially insensitive when unhealthy, thus i dont find much care at all for things in the social realm. which might appear as whiny, as you described?
    You aren't coming off as sensitive. You are simply coming off as somewhat arrogant, having a simplistic point of view of theory and people as a whole with an overall attitude towards self-pity.

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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