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Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts What is it really like to be Social-last?

Cloud of Thunder

New member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
571
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
I'm curious, because I've been trying to figure out my stacking for a while now. I'm pretty sure I'm 3w4, but the stackings are a bit more tricky because parts of both Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx descriptions apply to me.

Can any sx/sp or sp/sx help out?
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
most people on this forum have told me i'm likely sx/so buuuut...i'm just really not i don't think.

soooo....i'm just going to speak from that place...i've noticed that i pretty much don't care about what others do or think at all...and i never think to adjust myself to please others ever. i like people...having them around n such...i like groups but i do not see us as a whole or parts of a whole...i do not strive for social harmony...if it means in any way changing my personal agenda. i prefer to do my own thing and in no way feel responsible for how that affects you. i want to be taken as i am and left completely alone to do as i wish....and wouldn't think of asking any different from anyone else. i can be a peacemaker...but it's not for the reasons others might assume. it's just that i think everyone should be allowed to follow their own agenda and set their own priorities. if i say come to my house for dinner at 7....and you don't wanna come till 9...thats fine...doesn't bother me a bit...i won't wait to eat but come whenever you want...and...as a guest...i'd do the same and find it offensive if that offends you.

ha...that sounds totally selfish and bitchy probably but...it's true.
 

Asterion

Ruler of the Stars
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
2,331
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Well, I have never felt the need to join groups of people, I don't seek to know what activities my society is participating in. Instead, I seek personal experiences, if I ever do push beyond my self preservation boundaries. I dislike drinking and going out for this reason, the sole purpose is to unite people as a group, but it's not usually based upon intimacy or comfort. I have gone to big events alone just to see what the experience is like, rather than to feel part of the crowd, or a sense of belonging.
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Many So-last are attention whore, it's just that the So-territory is not hurt, then the passion of the type does'nt flow in this territory and then don't really develop the emotional habit of the Social subtype of their type, at least not at an insinctive level.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
For me, it's a sort of cluelessness that goes along with social interactions. All of my social nuances that I have now are through years of study and learning... it doesn't occur to me naturally. I have a sort of "you leave me alone, i am happy to leave you alone" mentality that doesn't sit well with much more socially minded folk. I also find it irritating having to go through social protocol for things I deem irrelevant.

Example, a cousin of mine got married a couple months ago. For various reasons she is not my favorite relative, and for various reasons she hates (but acts fake nice) our side of the family. My immediate desire was to A: not attend and B: not acknowledge this event. I was coerced into attending by my dad, however, I did not get her a gift. If I ever get married, I don't desire any gift or attendance by her, and I literally do not see the point in giving a gift just for the sake of the event. My surly ENTJ SP/SX grandfather got away with not attending via the fact that his invitation didn't contain directions to the wedding. I have a secret dream to someday be him. No one bugs him about this stuff anymore for they have learned it is like talking to a wall.
 

Owfin

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
261
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Recently, I've been thinking that I am a Sp/So and not an Sp/Sx, and a lot of this seems to confirm it...

I might even be a So/Sp because of my desire to belong, but I don't have as much of a "group sense" and I care more about living concerns...
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,145
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Well, just for my experience:

I'm indifferent to groups. While I seem friendly in a public setting, it's all one-on-one... I engage groups most naturally by engaging individuals one on one, and I have to fight to be interested in things on a "group" level.

I don't tend to have a lot of ambition, and while I like to be known positively, i really don't spend any time trying to enhance my status in a group. I just don't care if I'm the leader, or if the group gives me a special position, or if everyone knows me, as much as I care about doing my thing or building one-on-one connections with people. Networking is also difficult for me; I have to WORK at it, consciously, and hate it the entire time I'm doing it. As long as I have individuals who know and love me, I'm good; group status and group praise is often something I automatically "shrug off" and it rolls off my back.

I just don't really think in terms of a specific "group" level -- I might be broadly humanitarian but don't much enjoy or like smaller designated groups. I think in terms of individuals more naturally.
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
it's awesome :laugh:
I feel like So-dom and to an extent So-second types have more stress than me because they're so concerned with things outside of their direct sphere of influence (group dynamics, whether or not they are accepted, starving children in Africa). as an Sp/Sx I feel like my desires are a little more focused on areas I have direct control over (safety, hygiene, comfort, financial security). the need for so much outside acceptance and the wide sphere of focus that attending to group dynamics requires would probably really tire me out.


Recently, I've been thinking that I am a Sp/So and not an Sp/Sx, and a lot of this seems to confirm it...
I might even be a So/Sp because of my desire to belong, but I don't have as much of a "group sense" and I care more about living concerns...

Social Instinct is about the need to belong, be part of something larger than yourself and fulfill your role in the group. a common misconception is that being social makes you "sociable", that So-doms prefer large groups of people or that So doms enjoy useless gossip and chatter. another misconception is that So last do not enjoy socializing
 

Elfboy

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Nov 26, 2008
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ENFP
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5w4
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sx/sp
[MENTION=14498]Cloud of Thunder[/MENTION]
So last 3s tend to be less competitive and more self competitive. the 3s tendency to measure themselves by external standards is also curbed a bit. So last 3s are the least concerned with status. as long as they're doing their thing, looking good doing it and getting what they want, they tend to be happy.
 

Owfin

New member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
261
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Social Instinct is about the need to belong, be part of something larger than yourself and fulfill your role in the group. a common misconception is that being social makes you "sociable", that So-doms prefer large groups of people or that So doms enjoy useless gossip and chatter. another misconception is that So last do not enjoy socializing

I feel a need to belong and be something larger than myself, but I don't know what my role in a group is. I'm not so interested in "connecting" with one person though. I tend to prefer doing stuff with one or two other people, but I prefer just hanging out with a group.
 

CuriousFeeling

From the Undertow
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,937
MBTI Type
INfJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
For me, I have an awareness of what my role is in the group, but I tend to feel somehow removed from it, inside my own head. I tend to be pretty independent in this case.
 

Cloud of Thunder

New member
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Sep 17, 2011
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INFJ
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4
Well, just for my experience:

I'm indifferent to groups. While I seem friendly in a public setting, it's all one-on-one... I engage groups most naturally by engaging individuals one on one, and I have to fight to be interested in things on a "group" level.

I don't tend to have a lot of ambition, and while I like to be known positively, i really don't spend any time trying to enhance my status in a group. I just don't care if I'm the leader, or if the group gives me a special position, or if everyone knows me, as much as I care about doing my thing or building one-on-one connections with people. Networking is also difficult for me; I have to WORK at it, consciously, and hate it the entire time I'm doing it. As long as I have individuals who know and love me, I'm good; group status and group praise is often something I automatically "shrug off" and it rolls off my back.

I just don't really think in terms of a specific "group" level -- I might be broadly humanitarian but don't much enjoy or like smaller designated groups. I think in terms of individuals more naturally.
This. Being part of a group or social dynamic almost never occurs to me. Social-first or -second people annoy me when they harp on about "the world" or "the community", because I generally don't care about the world or the community. I think such an emphasis dishonors the individual.
 

Cloud of Thunder

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[MENTION=14498]Cloud of Thunder[/MENTION]
So last 3s tend to be less competitive and more self competitive. the 3s tendency to measure themselves by external standards is also curbed a bit. So last 3s are the least concerned with status. as long as they're doing their thing, looking good doing it and getting what they want, they tend to be happy.
In that case, I think I might be a Social-last 3w4 after all.
 

Mal12345

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IxTP
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sx/sp
"Because the social instinct is least developed, this subtype is not very concerned with how others perceive them (except their intimates)."

Yes and no. I am aware of how other perceive me. I can be concerned without having to take action to amend the situation. I think people are just judgmental and have nothing better to do than to focus on mere appearances. That being said, I don't look like a homeless person either. I dress according to my personal values and those are high enough to get me by socially.

This also plays into wider societal mores. I didn't get married for the social appearances. I don't like any fakeness. I don't read books that I feel others have to approve of first. They can all just F-off. Or maybe "Fe"-off would be better. If they don't like it then I guess I'll have to be a loner.

"This subtype is deceptive in that they may not seem to be especially intense - until they are engaged in a conversation they find interesting. Then the intensity and emotion become apparent."

That's why peeps here disagreed when I decided to go with Sx/Sp.

"The internal struggle for this subtype is similar to that of the self-pres/sexual, but more energized and volatile, and getting to know this subtype means getting to know that."

That's right, adapt to me and then maybe we can talk.

Edit - Ok, so I'm not really that bad, that sounds more like my boss. I adjust accordingly when I want something.
 

Elfboy

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9,625
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sx/sp
"Because the social instinct is least developed, this subtype is not very concerned with how others perceive them (except their intimates)."

Yes and no. I am aware of how other perceive me. I can be concerned without having to take action to amend the situation. I think people are just judgmental and have nothing better to do than to focus on mere appearances. That being said, I don't look like a homeless person either. I dress according to my personal values and those are high enough to get me by socially.

This also plays into wider societal mores. I didn't get married for the social appearances. I don't like any fakeness. I don't read books that I feel others have to approve of first. They can all just F-off. Or maybe "Fe"-off would be better. If they don't like it then I guess I'll have to be a loner.

"This subtype is deceptive in that they may not seem to be especially intense - until they are engaged in a conversation they find interesting. Then the intensity and emotion become apparent."

That's why peeps here disagreed when I decided to go with Sx/Sp.

"The internal struggle for this subtype is similar to that of the self-pres/sexual, but more energized and volatile, and getting to know this subtype means getting to know that."

That's right, adapt to me and then maybe we can talk.

Edit - Ok, so I'm not really that bad, that sounds more like my boss. I adjust accordingly when I want something.

I think you're Sp/Sx
 

chickpea

perfect person
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Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,728
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INFP
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4w5
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sp/sx
there are a select few people in my life that i value a lot, but i have problems understanding the dynamics of social groups or playing politics with people. in group situations, like parties, i tend to cling to one or two people that i came there with. i like meeting new people (sometimes), but not because of new connections or the social value they bring, but because they interest me or entertain me. i want to be respected by people i care about, but apart from that i have no desire to be popular or well-known. i like being under the radar better, because it gives me more freedom. i'm aware of social etiquette and things that are expected of me, and try to follow them sometimes, but it's a struggle and isn't a priority for me at all. nor do i expect other people i interact me to follow them.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
When I walk into a social setting, I'm thinking about food & a comfortable spot to hang back & just observe. I like to make sure I can be in control of these things. It's funny because at home I'll forget to eat, but I think it's because I know it's there if I want it. I'll think about other people's comforts too though. This becomes like a noise which drowns out the dynamics of people interacting around me.

When I am stuck in the middle of a group, I am uncomfortable and unused to being so involved. It's the most foreign thing to me to see a group interact; the inner workings of it are lost on me. Even online, when threads become this cutesy banter fest between many people, I don't get it. I could never join in. When I interact with people, it can seem like I am singling them out and going at them too intensely. I probably am doing that.... I'm either detached or too heavy, never casual and light enough. Whenever I realize I am out of the loop on something (which is often), it surprises me because I usually didn't even realize there was a loop.

Back to the social setting, my next thought (or sometimes my first) may be, "Am I being noted as intriguing, and is any individual intriguing to me?". I look for individuals & one-on-one connections. I'll find myself drawn to one person and will hyper-aware of them & only them. Sometimes, I think I am so aware of them they must feel it, like the air has changed. Yet, I am oblivious to all others and imagine they are oblivious to me. Sometimes, I think I might seem clingy because I zero in on the same individual people socially. I fail massively at networking, but then I don't even try.

When I talk to people, it's either very indifferent or intense. I have a hard time finding that socially smooth middle ground. I make horrible first impressions. More people notice me and remember me than I'd ever dream of; I imagine myself invisible. But then, I like to dress a bit funky, and I think a part of me is preening to draw interesting people to me. There's no social status aspect, and I can fail to be appropriate at times too.

So the primary focus is my personal comfort and independence, then making those intense, one-on-one connections with individuals, and usually at the expense of smooth social skills and awareness of what is regular interaction.
 

jixmixfix

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Jun 21, 2009
Messages
4,278
I'm pretty good socially but in groups I trust, the thing is I can be very outgoing in these groups I trust and very self preserved in groups I don't trust. In public I am very SP with friends I am Sx/so variant. I think the one thing that makes being an SP so great is the inability to be convinced and fooled so easily.
 
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