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Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts The relationship between the two most dominant instincts

Vizzy

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Jul 27, 2011
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229
Enneagram
5w4
Sp/sx...hmm...
Sexual appeal? I have none...and I'd feel dirty using it. Now what? lol

Sx is anything but supportive for me...unless we're talking about how I tackle hobbies and interests.
If it's about people, well, the way I avoid intimacy will probably be my doom.

Reposting something from before:

Vizzy said:
Sp/Sx: may use sex appeal to attain financial stability and comfort (think super model)
Sp/So: may use social graces to attain financial stability and comfort (think social climbing executive)
Sx/Sp: may use financial means to increase sex appeal (think cougar or sugar daddy)
Sx/So: may use social standing and status to increase sex appeal (think stereotypical alpha male)
So/Sp: may use their survival and financial means to benefit the group (think person is a position of service)
So/Sx: may use their sex appeal to gain social status and acceptance (think fraternities and sororities)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your theory seems to be:
Instinct 1 = main concern/focus
Instinct 2 = comes naturally and acts as a means
I2 as a cushion or tool for coping with/attaining the desires/needs of I1.
By that formula, I'd be Sx/Sp.
Firstly, just wanted to make it clear that I don't need to settle on an instinct stacking and would be happy to leave it between sp/sx and sx/sp forever. But just out of pure curiosity, what makes you think that Sx, rather than Sp, is my support instinct?
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yeah, it does seem clearer in 7s when you put it that way :laugh:

I think it should be fairly clear in 4s too -- because I think I'm pretty 'level-headed' (stemming from being safety-oriented) as a 4. I can imagine sx 4s being a lot less 'leashed in'.

What about in 9s? I've been trying to pin down my INFP boyfriend's instincts. I'm quite sure he's a 9w1, and I've guessed sx/sp, but I have no idea how to tell for sure.

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread >_<

- 4s are pretty hard to tell. if you look at Brian Griffin and Sir Lawrence Olivier (both 4w3 Sp/Sx) they match the generic Sx descriptions to a tee (passionate, impulsive, longing, intense, craving emotional closeness)
- 9s are hard to tell to. to me, Sp/Sx 9s are more detached. they're down with intimacy if you come to them, but they tend to be a tad more reserved, though their Sx side will gradually come out if they've warmed up to you and they like you. Sx/Sp 9s have a sort of vibe like a woman comforting a 3 year old child, only perpetually.

for comparison (I included the same MBTI and wing to try and isolate the variables better) :
Dido: INFP 9w1 Sp/Sx

JK Rowling: INFP 9w1 Sx/Sp
 

Vizzy

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229
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5w4
It's my opinion that anyone can get along with anyone, assuming that they make an effort to change with each other. Insularity is never a virtue.
Yes, of course anyone can get along well enough - if they want to...in an ideal world. But due to whatever reason, some people will decide that you're unworthy of their efforts and time...(and I myself have got too much pride/don't care enough to bend over backwards to prove that I am worthy).

Well, maybe I haven't expressed myself clearly. I didn't mean that sex is always a mechanical act; of course, when there's love involved it must be a meaningful and important experience, and I believe that this way is much MUCH better. It's just that, when there's no love, I still can accept it as something impersonal and not really intimate. Other people, for example, would never think something like that; sex for them is always intimate (even if it's a one-night stand) and they expect to be loved.

I suppose that 6 wing instead of 4 wing has something to do with this different approach. Apparently, 6 wing brings more detachment from emotions. I'm also very disconnected from my body sometimes; I could probably live as a head in a jar. :D
I don't doubt that it'd be better with someone you love. Don't worry, I didn't think for a second that, for you, sex is always a mechanical act, period. ;) I have more respect for people than to just assume crap like that.

I was just highlighting how insanely prudish I am in comparison...in real life. I'd probably flinch and run away if a guy touched me in a less than innocent way.
(I have some serious issues and I dont know why. Great childhood and all.)
 

Vizzy

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5w4
[MENTION=14554]Richardsen[/MENTION] - I've stolen your post. Thanks. (I think it could be of use here.)

Cut some lines out...but reworded nothing.

Renamed: List #1 Sx/Sp
- My life is defined by "out" and "in" of myself
- Always romantic, extremely jealous, ( even with people who aren't romantic partners)
- Very interested and sometimes obsesed with sexuality. Almost through my all life I think.
- Always trying to seek and provoke intense emotions.
- Emotionally competitive.
- I have troubles with control my rage and emotions.
- I don't know if this applies in Sx insctinct but Im very temperamental.
- I think that I am too unstable and restless for a Sp/Sx
- When I want to conect with a person Is always in a flirtatious tone, skipping the friendship stage. In fact I never had a consistent friendship with a woman.

Renamed: List #2 Sp/Sx
- I like to stay at home
- Need personal space
- I put myself first instead of others usually
- Im intense, but also quiet, and hermetic.
- I protect myself ( this is contradictory bcs I self sabotage and destruct myself in my "edgy" moments )
- I stay very hermetic to the people most of the time.
- I only had one serious relationship in my all life ( and very intense btw)
- I lock into myself too much.
- Short, and to the point in my speaking style.
- Very serious and angry looking. Maybe this could be the lack of SO component

Now, going back to the theoretical understanding that this thread was originally intended for, I have a general question.
If List #1 = Sx, and List #2 = Sp (both of which I relate to 99%), how can you tell which is the dominant instinct and which is the supporting?
 

VagrantFarce

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Nothing's coming to mind. Are you sure everyone's had this happen? I'm only 18, so I haven't exactly had the most life experience. :p I don't know, maybe sometime when I thought I did really great on a test and found out I got a bad grade. I don't think that's what you're looking for though...

What do you enjoy doing? What gets you energised? What do you love about life? it can be anything, big or small. Don't overthink it and make some big "this, or this maybe, or this" list like you always do, just go with what you feel.
 

hhp

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Nov 22, 2011
Messages
39
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
I would say that intimacy/closeness is more important to me, or at least more appealing, than belonging (though on the other hand, I'm afraid of looking weird, thus not "fitting in"). But if this is the case, then why don't I actively seek it? I don't open up or make any effort to get close to people, nor has anyone ever tried to get close to me. And aside from that, the sx/sp and sx/so descriptions for my type don't fit me at all, they're like the opposite of how I am.

This could be precisely your sp instinct bothering you, so even if you really want intimacy, you're afraid of doing anything about it, because people could reject you, or you could draw unwanted attention, or look "weird" (in a word, you'd feel unsafe).
But if you think that the Sx/sp 6 description doesn't fit you, I could be wrong.
I don't know if it's better to choose the instincts following descriptions or following intuition. Maybe you could read the general descriptions for each subtype of 6, without stackings, to determine your dom. instinct, and then choose between the other two options for the support instinct.
 

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Does Sx intimacy always mean romantic intimacy? Or does it encompass familial/friendly intimacy as well?

You can be Sx and completely unromantic. You seek relationships for the intensity you can find in them, by opposition with Sp who seek the confort provided by relationships. This process works for romantic relationships including romantic, familial or friendly, or even professionals.

So... Sx-doms are like teenagers?

Yes, Sx people are thoses 56 years old man who have the libido of a 14 years old boy (<<see my avatar). I think it can work for Sx-second too, by the way.

Also, to illustrate what VagranFarce said, Veronica Lodge is an Sx/So (3w4):

[youtube=6pFR1-sstUM]Veronica Gives Archie an Aphrodisiac[/youtube]

(Archie is 6w7 So/Sp and Betty 6w7 So/Sx)

I also don't think that insticts are really about motivation, "motivation" is a mental thing. Instincts are instinctive, it comes from the body, from the passion of the heart, you can't control, it is what work when you are in autopilot. It is not only because you have an account on a dating site that you are Sx.
 

Elfboy

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MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Sp/sx...hmm...
Sexual appeal? I have none...and I'd feel dirty using it. Now what? lol

Sx is anything but supportive for me...unless we're talking about how I tackle hobbies and interests.
If it's about people, well, the way I avoid intimacy will probably be my doom.

Reposting something from before:


Firstly, just wanted to make it clear that I don't need to settle on an instinct stacking and would be happy to leave it between sp/sx and sx/sp forever. But just out of pure curiosity, what makes you think that Sx, rather than Sp, is my support instinct?

it's really just a vibe, I can't explain it, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt
 

Vizzy

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5w4
it's really just a vibe, I can't explain it, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt
Oh, ok. I don't put much credence on vibes - unless you interacted with me in real life, and even then....


Anyway, *grabs popcorn and continues to watch*
 

Vizzy

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This could be precisely your sp instinct bothering you, so even if you really want intimacy, you're afraid of doing anything about it, because people could reject you, or you could draw unwanted attention, or look "weird" (in a word, you'd feel unsafe).
But if you think that the Sx/sp 6 description doesn't fit you, I could be wrong.
I don't know if it's better to choose the instincts following descriptions or following intuition. Maybe you could read the general descriptions for each subtype of 6, without stackings, to determine your dom. instinct, and then choose between the other two options for the support instinct.
All the stuff RevisZero says about feeling weird and fitting in is more So than Sx.
I guess, when talking about instincts, it's more about what you're most aware of than what you cherish most. I mean, needless to say, there are Sp/So and So/Sp types who cherish their partners more than anything else if you ask them to choose.
 

Speed Gavroche

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EsTP
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Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I mean, needless to say, there are Sp/So and So/Sp types who cherish their partners more than anything else if you ask them to choose.

Indeed. Richard Nixon was obssesed with his wife and he cherished her, Steve Jobs valued love above all, but they were not instinctively sexuals.
 

Silveresque

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What do you enjoy doing? What gets you energised? What do you love about life? it can be anything, big or small. Don't overthink it and make some big "this, or this maybe, or this" list like you always do, just go with what you feel.

Nothing involving people, if that's what you're looking for. Things I enjoy are music, psychology, anime, video games, and foreign languages. That's all I can think of right now...Sorry my answers aren't very helpful. :sorry:
 

VagrantFarce

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Nothing involving people, if that's what you're looking for.

I'm not looking for anything. :)

Things I enjoy are music, psychology, anime, video games, and foreign languages. That's all I can think of right now...Sorry my answers aren't very helpful. :sorry:

Why do you enjoy those? What needs are you fulfilling with these activities? Imagine if these activities were denied to you - what would be missing? How else could you full-fill these needs, perhaps in ways that you're not confident or comfortable with? What are you avoiding?
 

Silveresque

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I'm not looking for anything. :)



Why do you enjoy those? What needs are you fulfilling with these activities? Imagine if these activities were denied to you - what would be missing? How else could you full-fill these needs, perhaps in ways that you're not confident or comfortable with? What are you avoiding?

They're entertainment, just ways to pass the time. If they were denied to me, well for one I'd have to find a new major. :p And I'd probably read more. I might take up writing. And I'm sure I could find something else to do on the internet as well. Maybe I could get into chess. But chess is a 2-player game, and computer chess gets boring after a while...

I should add that music serves a special function for me. I use it to create and maintain specific moods, and provide inspiration for daydreaming. Anime serves that need in a way as well. I'm not sure how I could replace that..I suppose the only other thing is movies.
 

Viridian

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Why do you enjoy those? What needs are you fulfilling with these activities? Imagine if these activities were denied to you - what would be missing? How else could you full-fill these needs, perhaps in ways that you're not confident or comfortable with? What are you avoiding?

Would you mind if I "hijacked" your questions to RZ in order to ask you to help me find my type, VagrantFarce? :D

Which is to say, would you mind if I answered them (for myself) as well?
 

Vizzy

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5w4
Indeed. Richard Nixon was obssesed with his wife and he cherished her, Steve Jobs valued love above all, but they were not instinctively sexuals.
Glad you agree. So, theoretically, what would you say is the difference between the above examples and those who are "ïnstinctively sexuals"?
 

VagrantFarce

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Would you mind if I "hijacked" your questions to RZ in order to ask you to help me find my type, VagrantFarce? :D

Which is to say, would you mind if I answered them (for myself) as well?

I wouldn't stop you. :)

Indeed. Richard Nixon was obssesed with his wife and he cherished her, Steve Jobs valued love above all, but they were not instinctively sexuals.

I'm still convinced Steve Jobs was a sexual type - sometimes an apple is an apple, y'know?
 

Vizzy

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I'm still convinced Steve Jobs was a sexual type - sometimes an apple is an apple, y'know?
(You accidentally put Viridian instead of Speed Gavroche as the writer of that quote.)
All right, would you mind answering the question I posed above? How can you tell that an apple an apple and when it is not? What is the difference between a non-sx who cherishes/is obsessed with his partner, and an sx-instinctual? Forget about Steve Jobs' real type...or any individual's. I'm interested in an all-encompassing explanation.
 

21%

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May 15, 2009
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Enneagram
4w5
[MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]: Thanks for the vids! If it comes to 'vibes' in the vids, I think my INFP is more sp/sx-ish, which was what I originally typed him as. Then I realized that he can get very impulsive with money if it means -- so I think he could be sx/sp. Neither of the descriptions seem to fit, though...

Here are some points categorized according to the instincts if anyone could venture a guess :blush:

Sx
- Impulsive and occasionally gets obsessed with things (me when I'm around, video games, clothing, electronic devices, etc.) He seems to have amazing stamina when he's in an obsessive mood and can spend ten hours researching something online!
- Often jealous of other people I spend time with (not in a "you're cheating!" way, but just bothered by the attention I give to other people)
- Relationship wins over having friends

Sp
- Wants a comfortable, boring, safe life
- Low energy most of the time and likes an easy routine
- Is concerned about eating healthily
- Worries about imaginary health problems when under stress

So
- Gets paranoid about what strangers think of him
- Doesn't want to be considered 'weird' and wants to fit in (but feels he can't)

So, in his idea of a perfect life, he and I would be living together in a nice little place of our own, playing video games all day and ordering delivery.

I asked him once if he liked "highs and lows" or "steady okays", he thought about it a little and went with "highs and lows".

So, does this sound like sx/sp to you? :blush:
 

Viridian

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I wouldn't stop you. :)

OK then, thanks! Let's see...

Why do you enjoy those? What needs are you fulfilling with these activities?

Well, as much as I dislike branding some forms of art as "escapism" in themselves, that's part of their use for me. Through fiction, I can be somewhere away from the chaotic, immense, disorientating landscape we call "reality". I can experience something other than guilt, uncertainty, confusion, anxiety or whatnot, and I can do thngs at my own pace. It's pretty cozy. :) I can also see the worlds built by other people, which I guess is a sort of way of knowing "what they see" without much engagement. :ninja:

I also enjoy participating in forum discussions, where I'm slightly less nervous about stating my opinion and being paid attention by others. :blush:

Those are just some of my chosen hobbies, though.

Imagine if these activities were denied to you - what would be missing?

Peace of mind, for one. Ironically, I'd be "missing a lack" - of guilt, of anxiety, etc. The world can seem like a predator encroaching on you sometimes... Of course, I'm in a pretty cozy situation, financially and sociologically, but I don't know if I can maintain that as an adult. :unsure:

How else could you full-fill these needs, perhaps in ways that you're not confident or comfortable with?

I don't know... Maybe I'd have to learn how to cope with my anxieties and get out of my shell a bit so I could find companionship somewhere. :peepwall:

What are you avoiding?

Engagement, in some ways. Frustration. Failure. Irritation (which generates guilt in its own way). Humiliation. Pressure. Great amounts of responsibility (see: failure). Ambition. Risk. Things like that.

Duzzat help any?
 
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