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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default The Sx dom (re: Hazashin's question for me)

    I've been thinking lately about the Sx allure. Hazashin's question to me on my wall about the Sx having to be alluring is based on an assumption. How can you know if you're alluring unless someone tells you? If you're like me, then you'll be so standoffish that nobody will have a chance to say anything. If you're like me, women will stare in your direction then suddenly look away so you won't notice it. In my case, I have a wife to tell me these things. She said the first thing she noticed about me before we actually met was my aura. I didn't know I had an aura until she told me. Secondly, I didn't know other women were staring at me until she told me the first times we went out together in public places. I remember how she whispered in my direction, "Did you know women are staring at you..." I told her I had noticed something like that before, but I thought it was because something was wrong with me, maybe they thought I was ugly or dress funny. She replied that it was for just the opposite reason.

    I don't think this Instinctuals theory is going to be easy to sort out. It seems to take the entire typology question to a much deeper level. And I don't think the test I took was very good if it determined me to be the Sp, and none of the alternative results even mentioned Sx.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #2
    Member foxonstilts's Avatar
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    I don't mean to sound rude, but is there a question here or something to be discussed? XD I'm also doped up on pain medication, so it's perfectly understandable if I'm missing something.

    But anyway, I'm an sx dom and just recently realized it. I do a lot of enneagram research and like to consider myself as knowing a lot about it (it's my typology of choice ) but variants have always been my downfall. But anyway, sx/sp, much like yourself! Only 7w8 and not 5w4.

    But yes, I do have the "allure" thing. I don't really like to talk about it, because that seems very self-absorbed or vain or whatnot, but I do. And it is both a good thing and a bad thing. I'm not the best "people person" and don't relate to them, usually, but somehow whenever I like someone, I fall a little bit in love with them. I think that's the "intense connection" that is so associated with sx doms. I don't separate my feelings into "oh this person is an acquaintance, this person is a friend, this is my BEST friend, and this is my boyfriend." They're all equal in my mind (the the chagrin of my significant other, as to be expected.)

    Some of this is probably core type-related, too.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxonstilts View Post
    I don't mean to sound rude, but is there a question here or something to be discussed? XD I'm also doped up on pain medication, so it's perfectly understandable if I'm missing something.

    But anyway, I'm an sx dom and just recently realized it. I do a lot of enneagram research and like to consider myself as knowing a lot about it (it's my typology of choice ) but variants have always been my downfall. But anyway, sx/sp, much like yourself! Only 7w8 and not 5w4.

    But yes, I do have the "allure" thing. I don't really like to talk about it, because that seems very self-absorbed or vain or whatnot, but I do. And it is both a good thing and a bad thing. I'm not the best "people person" and don't relate to them, usually, but somehow whenever I like someone, I fall a little bit in love with them. I think that's the "intense connection" that is so associated with sx doms. I don't separate my feelings into "oh this person is an acquaintance, this person is a friend, this is my BEST friend, and this is my boyfriend." They're all equal in my mind (the the chagrin of my significant other, as to be expected.)

    Some of this is probably core type-related, too.
    That's another thing needing to be sorted out, the distinction between the various type theories. Instinctuals is not enneagram. Instinctuals did not grow out of the enneagram. Instinctuals stand alone, therefore if I wanted to call myself an INTP Sx/Sp, I have every theoretical right to do so. I'm just saying. It just so happens that the Instinctuals and enneagram came into being around the same time and originated with the same enneagram theorists, especially Oscar Ichazo.

    Is there a specific question? I have only offered Hazashin an answer. Perhaps the best answer for him would be to ask someone, because it took 20 or more years for someone to volunteer the information to me. I don't think it's the case that every new thread has to start with a question.

    Oh yes, congrats on discovering your variant type. It's not that easy, is it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  4. #4
    Member foxonstilts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    That's another thing needing to be sorted out, the distinction between the various type theories. Instinctuals is not enneagram. Instinctuals did not grow out of the enneagram. Instinctuals stand alone, therefore if I wanted to call myself an INTP Sx/Sp, I have every theoretical right to do so. I'm just saying. It just so happens that the Instinctuals and enneagram came into being around the same time and originated with the same enneagram theorists, especially Oscar Ichazo.
    Oh, well that explains a load, actually. They're usually associated together by many theorists I've read, so I just kind of flopped them together. That's a good thing to know herpderp. Thanks for clearing that up and making my life a little easier. XD I was trying to figure out how they tied together when they seemed fairly separate and so on and so forth. My eyes have been opened, thanks to you, Mal12345!

    Either way, I do think it's an interesting read.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxonstilts View Post
    Oh, well that explains a load, actually. They're usually associated together by many theorists I've read, so I just kind of flopped them together. That's a good thing to know herpderp. Thanks for clearing that up and making my life a little easier. XD I was trying to figure out how they tied together when they seemed fairly separate and so on and so forth. My eyes have been opened, thanks to you, Mal12345!

    Either way, I do think it's an interesting read.
    I added a little bit more to the end of my previous post. I often do that. Believe it or not, I'm here to help and I know a great deal of historical background on the enneagram. I just don't parade it forth. And I read the entire Fourth Way book back in the early 90's, it took almost an entire summer to wade through that massive tome.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #6
    Member foxonstilts's Avatar
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    Do you have any good sources for the variants? I've seen them mentioned in a few Palmer books (which helped me out more than her type-descriptions did), but it's harder to find what seems to be reliable sources for them compared to Enneagram. I think the reason it's harder to figure out variants is because a.) looking online provides different descriptions that are in depth,and b.)there are only three so there's more wiggle room in what you're figuring out so nothing will fit Absolutely Perfectly.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxonstilts View Post
    Do you have any good sources for the variants? I've seen them mentioned in a few Palmer books (which helped me out more than her type-descriptions did), but it's harder to find what seems to be reliable sources for them compared to Enneagram. I think the reason it's harder to figure out variants is because a.) looking online provides different descriptions that are in depth,and b.)there are only three so there's more wiggle room in what you're figuring out so nothing will fit Absolutely Perfectly.
    There may be good sources out there, meaning, sources that are generally recognized as good. I saw a $30 booklet for sale online. The problem is, I see a lot of theory but not practice which is contained in descriptions. I believe that the various descriptions might contradict and they only come together on the issue of vitality. Sx has more vitality than So, which has more vitality than Sp. But what does that mean? And doesn't that meaning change depending on enneatype?

    When my 5w4 friend frequents bars and likes to party, while I as a 5w4 prefer to stay home and read a good book, does that mean he has more vitality than me?

    If this Instinctuals question is a work in progress, then there's not much we can do. And I haven't read the $30 booklet on the subject, I don't spend that much money on booklets.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I've been thinking lately about the Sx allure. Hazashin's question to me on my wall about the Sx having to be alluring is based on an assumption. How can you know if you're alluring unless someone tells you? If you're like me, then you'll be so standoffish that nobody will have a chance to say anything. If you're like me, women will stare in your direction then suddenly look away so you won't notice it. In my case, I have a wife to tell me these things. She said the first thing she noticed about me before we actually met was my aura. I didn't know I had an aura until she told me. Secondly, I didn't know other women were staring at me until she told me the first times we went out together in public places. I remember how she whispered in my direction, "Did you know women are staring at you..." I told her I had noticed something like that before, but I thought it was because something was wrong with me, maybe they thought I was ugly or dress funny. She replied that it was for just the opposite reason.

    I don't think this Instinctuals theory is going to be easy to sort out. It seems to take the entire typology question to a much deeper level. And I don't think the test I took was very good if it determined me to be the Sp, and none of the alternative results even mentioned Sx.
    Maybe you aren't sx? Most things you write (including this post) seem to come from an sp viewpoint.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Maybe you aren't sx? Most things you write (including this post) seem to come from an sp viewpoint.
    Maybe? But I read the descriptions on the Oceans-moonshine page many times over (and tried to avoid making a rush judgment about this), wrote about myself on this forum which was very helpful, and a few light-bulbs later I made a decision.

    I've changed my mind on many issues thanks to this place. Hopefully, for the better.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    http://www.enneagram.net/products.html#ISTBooklet

    "An in-depth compilation of all 27 subtypes as described by Naranjo. Palmer, Riso, Hudson, Condon, Rhor, Baron & Wagele and others as well as in the "verbatim" language of the Enneagram types themselves.

    This research booklet includes the major authors descriptions of the Instinctual Subtypes, the internal versus external perception, point bias, cultural bias, stress and security, look-a-likes, color photo collages and results of the latest research."

    This is a link to a $35 booklet on Instinctual subtypes. It makes the mistake of calling them subtypes. They are not subtypes. Should I trust this book because of that one mistake? I wouldn't buy it for that much, but if someone wants to gift it to me...
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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