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[so] So/Sp Motivational Posters

Mal12345

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Ayn Rand So/Sp: http://www.google.fr/search?tbm=isc...=1448l2367l0l2599l8l8l0l2l2l1l180l769l2.4l6l0

Katharine Hepburn Sx/So: http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&b...&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=0l0l1l43l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0

The evidence: the erection I get watching the Katharine's page, and the absence of erection watchin Ayn Rand's page.

End of the question.

That again goes back to Riso stating that the sexual instinctual type has nothing to do with looking sexy or attractive.
 

Mal12345

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That's Social, the ability to make people join your social sphere, not Sexual, wich is the ability to turn you on.

Oh come on, can't you at least make this conversation worthy of my attention?
 

Speed Gavroche

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http://ocean-moonshine.net/e1428573...er_op=view_page&PAGE_id=42&MMN_position=80:80

soc/sp
'This type is often the most comfortable in group settings, but tends to be a bit formal and awkward in one to one relations. This is the natural political type, affiliating themselves with groups or theories which best defend their social and material interests. They may lack warmth and individual identity and this could lead to problems in forming meaningful relationships outside of a shared social interest. The motivation for this type is to attain status within their chosen sphere - the "social climber."'

Sentence one - Rand seemed comfortable in any social setting, whether in front of a group or one to one. She had no problem in a one-on-one conversation setting your bad premises aside.

Sexual are engaging in one-to-one conversations, Ayn Rand was detached and formal.

Sentence two - Rand did not affiliate herself with any groups or other theories, she was independent of them. She was a staunch individualist. Her school, started by Nathaniel Branden and not herself, became a cult because Rand exuded the kind of energy that attracted people to her.

You said she did'nt affiliate to any groups, and then that she joined a group and exude an energy to make people follow her. You contradict yourself.

Sentence three - Rand lacked individual identity? Preposterous.

Pretty much. She had very few ideas on her own. Most part of her philosophy is a simplification and caricature of other thinker's idea and the whole result is extremely poor. And her private life was poor too. She exist as a public figure more than as an individual.

Sentence four - Rand a "social climber"? .

Completely.
 

Speed Gavroche

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That again goes back to Riso stating that the sexual instinctual type has nothing to do with looking sexy or attractive.

Justly, Katharine was not necesarly attracive. Haz find her unatractive. What matters the most is her irrepressible drive to live an intense lifestyle and be a sex-symbol, Ayn Rand had not that. And if you told to Riso that she's Sx/So, he would laugh at you. The differnces between her and Katharine is obvious.


Oh come on, can't you at least make this conversation worthy of my attention?

I pointed that you confuse So and Sx, but you refuse to face your weakness.
 

Speed Gavroche

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Haha, it would help if Katharine was, you know, attractive! I don't see how you could get an erection looking at unattractive lady. :laugh:

It's not to me that you should ask that question, but to millions of men. :laugh:
 

Mal12345

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It's not to me that you should ask that question, but to millions of men. :laugh:

Haz is funny and has a good point in that context. But the entire question is irrelevant. What you find sexually attractive in people has utterly nothing to do with instinctual stackings.
 

Speed Gavroche

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Haz is funny and has a good point in that context. But the entire question is irrelevant. What you find sexually attractive in people has utterly nothing to do with instinctual stackings.

It's not about my personal opinion, but about global behavior and perception of a person.

And Haz and you miss a point. That Katharine Hepburn is not your type of woman, I can understand it, but if on the other side you find Ayn Rand sexual, theres's really something wrong with you. If I was your girlfiend reading this, I would lose every sort of self-esteem.
 

Mal12345

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Sexual are engaging in one-to-one conversations, Ayn Rand was detached and formal.

No, in fact Ayn Rand was engaging, very engaging, in one-on-one conversations. Read.

You said she did'nt affiliate to any groups, and then that she joined a group and exude an energy to make people follow her. You contradict yourself.

She started a school with Nathaniel Branden, but she was skeptical of his idea at first. Read her biographies. And the energy she exuded turned the school into an Ayn Rand personality cult. People learned about Objectivism - BECAUSE it came from Ayn Rand, often simply because she was the famous author of those sensually powerful and idealistic novels. But her personality was even more powerful and alluring.

Pretty much. She had very few ideas on her own. Most part of her philosophy is a simplification and caricature of other thinker's idea and the whole result is extremely poor. And her private life was poor too. She exist as a public figure more than as an individual.

We all have our intellectual influences, but the end-product was uniquely Rand's. Objectivism itself is not the product of any other mind. She had influences from Aristotle, Nietzsche, Mises, and Paterson. But in the end she rejected them all.

There is a quote from Rand's early journals (1930s) stating that she believed her instincts were correct, it was only a matter of justifying them through reason.
 

Mal12345

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It's not about my personal opinion, but about global behavior and perception of a person.

And Haz and you miss a point. That Katharine Hepburn is not your type of woman, I can understand it, but if on the other side you find Ayn Rand sexual, theres's really something wrong with you. If I was your girlfiend reading this, I would lose every sort of self-esteem.

Your definition is off. In instinctual stackings, sexual does not mean the person exudes sex or even wants sex. It has far more to do with charismatic attractiveness. It has nothing to do with that person giving you a hardon. It has everything to do with the amount of energy that person puts into the world, "or, what, apart from the self, seems to promise to expand and intensify life. The life of the self is found in the life of the other." http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e142...d=27&PAGE_user_op=view_page&module=pagemaster
That perfectly describes Rand's relationship with the world and her quest to find the "other" (whom she at first thought was her husband, and then she thought was Nathaniel Branden).

You mentioned Rand's formality with people, but I would have to say that applies to groups of people. Her lectures were more formal, her one-on-one interactions gave a greater impression of her intensity, passion, and excitement. Sorry that you think it only has to do with sex. I'd say it influences the sexual arena of life, but it is not primarily about that.
 

Mal12345

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"...or, what, apart from the self, seems to promise to expand and intensify life." What do you think is the very basis of Rand's moral system. Life. But not just life in general, the life of man QUA man, man qua rational being, or perhaps better, man the passionate individual. What is her moral system about? It is a promise to expand and intensify your life and happiness. Even Rand's philosophy exudes the 'sexual' instinct type, once you toss aside your misconception that it is something as crude as passing out hardons.
 

Speed Gavroche

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No, in fact Ayn Rand was engaging, very engaging, in one-on-one conversations. Read.

Socially engaging, not intimacy driven.


She started a school with Nathaniel Branden, but she was skeptical of his idea at first. Read her biographies.

Skepticism is not a mark of the Sx insitnct. And stop to tell me to read her bios, I read a lot about Ayn Rand and I know a lot about objectivist and I met many objectivist, so stop to act like if you knew more than your interlocutor? You don't, actually, if you knew more about Sx/So people, you'd see that tehy are completely differant than that bitch.

And the energy she exuded turned the school into an Ayn Rand personality cult.
People learned about Objectivism - BECAUSE it came from Ayn Rand, often simply because she was the famous author of those sensually powerfuland idealistic novels.[/ But her personality was even more powerful and alluring.

Bolded is coimpletely ridiculous.


We all have our intellectual influences, but the end-product was uniquely Rand's. Objectivism itself is not the product of any other mind. She had influences from Aristotle, Nietzsche, Mises, and Paterson. But in the end she rejected them all.

She did'nt only rejected them all, she denied her influences, epspecially from libertariansim. Overall, she was a complete fake, and everyting is true in her tought did'nt came from her, everything wihc came from her were wrong.

There is a quote from Rand's early journals (1930s) stating that she believed her instincts were correct, it was only a matter of justifying them through reason.

Her instincts, but not sexual instincts.
 

Speed Gavroche

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Your definition is off. In instinctual stackings, sexual does not mean the person exudes sex or even wants sex. It has far more to do with charismatic attractiveness. It has nothing to do with that person giving you a hardon. It has everything to do with the amount of energy that person puts into the world, "or, what, apart from the self, seems to promise to expand and intensify life. The life of the self is found in the life of the other." http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e142...d=27&PAGE_user_op=view_page&module=pagemaster
That perfectly describes Rand's relationship with the world and her quest to find the "other" (whom she at first thought was her husband, and then she thought was Nathaniel Branden).

The sexual isntinct is all about sexuality, or we would'nt have called it like that. And stop to bother me about what she wrote or her "ideas", I talk about her behaviors.

You mentioned Rand's formality with people, but I would have to say that applies to groups of people. Her lectures were more formal, her one-on-one interactions gave a greater impression of her intensity, passion, and excitement


She was excited about the group, not about intimacy.

. Sorry that you think it only has to do with sex. I'd say it influences the sexual arena of life, but it is not primarily about that.

Again, you're wrong, it's primarly about sex, then it influence the whole life. To see Ayn Rand as a sexually intense person is retarded.
 

Mal12345

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The sexual isntinct is all about sexuality, or we would'nt have called it like that.

That's a non-sequitur on the face of it. Do you know who the founder of the instinctual types is? Do you know what he was thinking at the time he invented it? I have Riso to go by, who learned it from the founder of the system, and the rest of what I read online about this supports him.

And stop to bother me about what she wrote or her "ideas", I talk about her behaviors.

You can talk about them but that doesn't mean you know anything about them. Rand's philosophy was a reflection of her personality, as it is with any philosopher. And any author's books are a reflection on them, just as their behaviors are a reflection on them. (Edit- and they reflect on their instincts too!)

She was excited about the group, not about intimacy.

You are only revealing more of your ignorance about Ayn Rand.

Again, you're wrong, it's primarly about sex, then it influence the whole life. To see Ayn Rand as a sexually intense person is retarded.

Your basic premise about the sex instinctual is off, therefore I reject your conclusion about Ayn Rand. Rand was an intense person. She could be sexually intense too, as revealed not only by her novels but her personal life. Read.
 

Speed Gavroche

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That's a non-sequitur on the face of it. Do you know who the founder of the instinctual types is? Do you know what he was thinking at the time he invented it? I have Riso to go by, who learned it from the founder of the system, and the rest of what I read online about this supports him.

I learned about instincts from Palmer and that's enough for me. And don't tell me that it is not a credible source.



You can talk about them but that doesn't mean you know anything about them. Rand's philosophy was a reflection of her personality, as it is with any philosopher.

Simpsons_nelson_haha.jpg


You think that philosopher live according to what they write? Really? That's completely stupid, especially about Ayn Rand.

You are only revealing more of your ignorance about Ayn Rand.

I persist and sign: she was enthusiastic about her ideas, not sexually engaging, and anybody who is really sexually engaging would agree with that.


Your basic premise about the sex instinctual is off


No.

Rand was an intense person.

Again, socially intense, not sexually intense.

She could be sexually intense too, as revealed not only by her novels but her personal life. Read.

I don't want to read more of theses boring shit. And once and for all, I read Ayn Rand so stop to assume the contrary and take superior position. Her personal life was completely insipid, and I said that her writing was as moving than a FIY manual, but actually, a true Sx/So like Edith Piaf, was able to be moving singing the telephine directory. The Rand's only ability was to rally people to her doctrine ans was completely rigid about rules.

And as for her writing about sexuality, it is simply another proof that she really did'nt master the subject at all.
 

Mal12345

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I learned about instincts from Palmer and that's enough for me. And don't tell me that it is not a credible source.

So you have read a book?

Palmer and her type 9 "Gentle Giant." I can't begin to describe to you how much that description has thrown me off on typing others. Can't a type 9 be of average height? Can't a type 9 be of short stature?

The Simpson's cartoon is childish.

I can't handle anybody who deals in stereotypes. But just to humor you, I'll read up again on her theory of instinctuals.

The ocean-moonshine page has this to say about the origin of the instinctual theory:
"According to Naranjo, Oscar Ichazo, the father of the modern Enneagram of personality, subdivided the instinctual center into three distinct individual centers, namely the instinct for self-preservation, the sexual instinct and the social instinct. Enneagram theorists have been working with these divisions ever since. These instincts are the most primitive portions of our being; they are that in us which is most akin to the other animals and they are affected by our fixations in ways that follow predictable patterns, in ways that are susceptible to analysis and description."

This concurs with Riso.

You think that philosopher live according to what they write? Really? That's completely stupid, especially about Ayn Rand.

Once again, I didn't say that. Please respond to what I've written and not to some off-the-wall idea about what I've written. And please refrain from saying I wrote something stupid about Ayn Rand when I was reading and studying her philosophy since before you were an itch in your daddy's crotch.

I persist and sign: she was enthusiastic about her ideas, not sexually engaging, and anybody who is really sexually engaging would agree with that.

You "persist" in your ignorance about what the sexual instinctual stacking is.

Again, socially intense, not sexually intense.

Since her husband is dead, you'll have to ask her lover Nathaniel Branden about that. However, it is irrelevant. The sexual instinct does not mean "sexually intense," although it can play into that. Socially she was, as you said, formal.

I don't want to read more of theses boring shit. And once and for all, I read Ayn Rand so stop to assume the contrary and take superior position.

Then you failed to understand her.

Her personal life was completely insipid, and I said that her writing was as moving than a FIY manual, but actually, a true Sx/So like Edith Piaf, was able to be moving singing the telephine directory. The Rand's only ability was to rally people to her doctrine ans was completely rigid about rules.

She lived her life through her novels, except when it came to her sexual relationships with men. That's the part where she lived out the sexually intense elements of her novels.

And as for her writing about sexuality, it is simply another proof that she really did'nt master the subject at all.

Her sexual theory is a different subject, I only used it to demonstrate that I'm correct about her stacking: the Sx/So "May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it." That is a most precise description of what Rand was doing with her theory of sexuality.
 

Mal12345

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I just checked, Mr. Gavroche. Helen Palmer has no theory of instinctuals. She mentions instincts and such in relationship to Gurdjieff, but this refers to the three traditional enneagram centers.
 

Speed Gavroche

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So you have read a book?

Yes of course.

Palmer and her type 9 "Gentle Giant." I can't begin to describe to you how much that description has thrown me off on typing others. Can't a type 9 be of average height? Can't a type 9 be of short stature?

I can't believe that you are that stupid. Don't you understand that it is a figuarative expresssion, and not literal? However, her books about enneagram are among the most consistent ever wrote according to msot part of praticians, while you ever shown that your understanding of enneagram is extremely poor.

The Simpson's cartoon is childish.

It's only what you deserve.

I can't handle anybody who deals in stereotypes. But just to humor you, I'll read up again on her theory of instinctuals.
The ocean-moonshine page has this to say about the origin of the instinctual theory:
"According to Naranjo, Oscar Ichazo, the father of the modern Enneagram of personality, subdivided the instinctual center into three distinct individual centers, namely the instinct for self-preservation, the sexual instinct and the social instinct. Enneagram theorists have been working with these divisions ever since. These instincts are the most primitive portions of our being; they are that in us which is most akin to the other animals and they are affected by our fixations in ways that follow predictable patterns, in ways that are susceptible to analysis and description."

This concurs with Riso.


What was this supposed to prove?

Once again, I didn't say that. Please respond to what I've written and not to some off-the-wall idea about what I've written. And please refrain from saying I wrote something stupid about Ayn Rand when I was reading and studying her philosophy since before you were an itch in your daddy's crotch.

You wrote stupind things about Haine Rand.



You "persist" in your ignorance about what the sexual instinctual stacking is.

I'am sexual, you are not. And others sexual people would say the same thing than me. You are laughable.



The sexual instinct does not mean "sexually intense,"

Why do I waste my time with you?

although it can play into that. Socially she was, as you said, formal.

No, she was socially enthusiast, as ever said. But did'nt have strong issues on Sx.


Then you failed to understand her.

Of course since I don't share your views.


She lived her life through her novels, except when it came to her sexual relationships with men.

Sx was her least developed instinct, so it's normal.

That's the part where she lived out the sexually intense elements of her novels.

There's not any sexually intense elements in her novels, except if you consider as sexually intense an episode of Santa Barbara. Oh, and wait, did'nt you say that Sx was not about "sexually intense", you contradict yourself on the same post and you are laughable.


Her sexual theory is a different subject, I only used it to demonstrate that I'm correct about her stacking: the Sx/So "May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it."

Most part of philosopher have writen something about sex, even if they were often less experienced than a teenager on this. That don't prove anything, Ayn Rand wrote a bit about sex because she thought that her opinion was important and that everybody wanted to hear her views about this, but she did'nt embodyed sexuality like Sx/So do.

That is a most precise description of what Rand was doing with her theory of sexuality.

No, you extrapolate completely.
 

Mal12345

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There's not any sexually intense elements in her novels, except if you consider as sexually intense an episode of Santa Barbara.

That is completely absurd, especially if you consider the fact that she wrote the controversial rape scene for The Fountainhead in 1940s America.

No, you extrapolate completely.

"Extrapolate" or not, at least I get my facts correct. What evidence do you have for ANY of the above? I see a lot of innuendo and ad hominem in your writing.

Why do I waste my time with you?

Why don't you offer even a single quote from someone other than yourself that the sex instinctual does not equal sexual intensity? At least then we will have a basis for discussion and possible agreement or compromise.

No, she was socially enthusiast, as ever said. But did'nt have strong issues on Sx.

That statement is completely meaningless with regard to Rand's life. At social functions she often found herself sitting off in the corner by herself. My, such enthusiasm that is. Try reading just ONE of her biographies.
 

Speed Gavroche

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I just checked, Mr. Gavroche. Helen Palmer has no theory of instinctuals. She mentions instincts and such in relationship to Gurdjieff, but this refers to the three traditional enneagram centers.

She simply explain the same theory that Riso use in her book. So, by reading her books, I know Riso's ideas.

You are wrong and I'am right. Admit it and go back to school.
 
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