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  1. #51
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "...or, what, apart from the self, seems to promise to expand and intensify life." What do you think is the very basis of Rand's moral system. Life. But not just life in general, the life of man QUA man, man qua rational being, or perhaps better, man the passionate individual. What is her moral system about? It is a promise to expand and intensify your life and happiness. Even Rand's philosophy exudes the 'sexual' instinct type, once you toss aside your misconception that it is something as crude as passing out hardons.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  2. #52
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    No, in fact Ayn Rand was engaging, very engaging, in one-on-one conversations. Read.
    Socially engaging, not intimacy driven.


    She started a school with Nathaniel Branden, but she was skeptical of his idea at first. Read her biographies.
    Skepticism is not a mark of the Sx insitnct. And stop to tell me to read her bios, I read a lot about Ayn Rand and I know a lot about objectivist and I met many objectivist, so stop to act like if you knew more than your interlocutor? You don't, actually, if you knew more about Sx/So people, you'd see that tehy are completely differant than that bitch.

    And the energy she exuded turned the school into an Ayn Rand personality cult.
    People learned about Objectivism - BECAUSE it came from Ayn Rand, often simply because she was the famous author of those sensually powerfuland idealistic novels.[/ But her personality was even more powerful and alluring.
    Bolded is coimpletely ridiculous.


    We all have our intellectual influences, but the end-product was uniquely Rand's. Objectivism itself is not the product of any other mind. She had influences from Aristotle, Nietzsche, Mises, and Paterson. But in the end she rejected them all.
    She did'nt only rejected them all, she denied her influences, epspecially from libertariansim. Overall, she was a complete fake, and everyting is true in her tought did'nt came from her, everything wihc came from her were wrong.

    There is a quote from Rand's early journals (1930s) stating that she believed her instincts were correct, it was only a matter of justifying them through reason.
    Her instincts, but not sexual instincts.
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  3. #53
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Your definition is off. In instinctual stackings, sexual does not mean the person exudes sex or even wants sex. It has far more to do with charismatic attractiveness. It has nothing to do with that person giving you a hardon. It has everything to do with the amount of energy that person puts into the world, "or, what, apart from the self, seems to promise to expand and intensify life. The life of the self is found in the life of the other." http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...ule=pagemaster
    That perfectly describes Rand's relationship with the world and her quest to find the "other" (whom she at first thought was her husband, and then she thought was Nathaniel Branden).
    The sexual isntinct is all about sexuality, or we would'nt have called it like that. And stop to bother me about what she wrote or her "ideas", I talk about her behaviors.

    You mentioned Rand's formality with people, but I would have to say that applies to groups of people. Her lectures were more formal, her one-on-one interactions gave a greater impression of her intensity, passion, and excitement

    She was excited about the group, not about intimacy.

    . Sorry that you think it only has to do with sex. I'd say it influences the sexual arena of life, but it is not primarily about that.
    Again, you're wrong, it's primarly about sex, then it influence the whole life. To see Ayn Rand as a sexually intense person is retarded.
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    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  4. #54
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    The sexual isntinct is all about sexuality, or we would'nt have called it like that.
    That's a non-sequitur on the face of it. Do you know who the founder of the instinctual types is? Do you know what he was thinking at the time he invented it? I have Riso to go by, who learned it from the founder of the system, and the rest of what I read online about this supports him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    And stop to bother me about what she wrote or her "ideas", I talk about her behaviors.
    You can talk about them but that doesn't mean you know anything about them. Rand's philosophy was a reflection of her personality, as it is with any philosopher. And any author's books are a reflection on them, just as their behaviors are a reflection on them. (Edit- and they reflect on their instincts too!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    She was excited about the group, not about intimacy.
    You are only revealing more of your ignorance about Ayn Rand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Again, you're wrong, it's primarly about sex, then it influence the whole life. To see Ayn Rand as a sexually intense person is retarded.
    Your basic premise about the sex instinctual is off, therefore I reject your conclusion about Ayn Rand. Rand was an intense person. She could be sexually intense too, as revealed not only by her novels but her personal life. Read.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  5. #55
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    That's a non-sequitur on the face of it. Do you know who the founder of the instinctual types is? Do you know what he was thinking at the time he invented it? I have Riso to go by, who learned it from the founder of the system, and the rest of what I read online about this supports him.
    I learned about instincts from Palmer and that's enough for me. And don't tell me that it is not a credible source.



    You can talk about them but that doesn't mean you know anything about them. Rand's philosophy was a reflection of her personality, as it is with any philosopher.


    You think that philosopher live according to what they write? Really? That's completely stupid, especially about Ayn Rand.

    You are only revealing more of your ignorance about Ayn Rand.
    I persist and sign: she was enthusiastic about her ideas, not sexually engaging, and anybody who is really sexually engaging would agree with that.


    Your basic premise about the sex instinctual is off

    No.

    Rand was an intense person.
    Again, socially intense, not sexually intense.

    She could be sexually intense too, as revealed not only by her novels but her personal life. Read.
    I don't want to read more of theses boring shit. And once and for all, I read Ayn Rand so stop to assume the contrary and take superior position. Her personal life was completely insipid, and I said that her writing was as moving than a FIY manual, but actually, a true Sx/So like Edith Piaf, was able to be moving singing the telephine directory. The Rand's only ability was to rally people to her doctrine ans was completely rigid about rules.

    And as for her writing about sexuality, it is simply another proof that she really did'nt master the subject at all.
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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  6. #56
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I learned about instincts from Palmer and that's enough for me. And don't tell me that it is not a credible source.
    So you have read a book?

    Palmer and her type 9 "Gentle Giant." I can't begin to describe to you how much that description has thrown me off on typing others. Can't a type 9 be of average height? Can't a type 9 be of short stature?

    The Simpson's cartoon is childish.

    I can't handle anybody who deals in stereotypes. But just to humor you, I'll read up again on her theory of instinctuals.

    The ocean-moonshine page has this to say about the origin of the instinctual theory:
    "According to Naranjo, Oscar Ichazo, the father of the modern Enneagram of personality, subdivided the instinctual center into three distinct individual centers, namely the instinct for self-preservation, the sexual instinct and the social instinct. Enneagram theorists have been working with these divisions ever since. These instincts are the most primitive portions of our being; they are that in us which is most akin to the other animals and they are affected by our fixations in ways that follow predictable patterns, in ways that are susceptible to analysis and description."

    This concurs with Riso.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    You think that philosopher live according to what they write? Really? That's completely stupid, especially about Ayn Rand.
    Once again, I didn't say that. Please respond to what I've written and not to some off-the-wall idea about what I've written. And please refrain from saying I wrote something stupid about Ayn Rand when I was reading and studying her philosophy since before you were an itch in your daddy's crotch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I persist and sign: she was enthusiastic about her ideas, not sexually engaging, and anybody who is really sexually engaging would agree with that.
    You "persist" in your ignorance about what the sexual instinctual stacking is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Again, socially intense, not sexually intense.
    Since her husband is dead, you'll have to ask her lover Nathaniel Branden about that. However, it is irrelevant. The sexual instinct does not mean "sexually intense," although it can play into that. Socially she was, as you said, formal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I don't want to read more of theses boring shit. And once and for all, I read Ayn Rand so stop to assume the contrary and take superior position.
    Then you failed to understand her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Her personal life was completely insipid, and I said that her writing was as moving than a FIY manual, but actually, a true Sx/So like Edith Piaf, was able to be moving singing the telephine directory. The Rand's only ability was to rally people to her doctrine ans was completely rigid about rules.
    She lived her life through her novels, except when it came to her sexual relationships with men. That's the part where she lived out the sexually intense elements of her novels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    And as for her writing about sexuality, it is simply another proof that she really did'nt master the subject at all.
    Her sexual theory is a different subject, I only used it to demonstrate that I'm correct about her stacking: the Sx/So "May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it." That is a most precise description of what Rand was doing with her theory of sexuality.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #57
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    I just checked, Mr. Gavroche. Helen Palmer has no theory of instinctuals. She mentions instincts and such in relationship to Gurdjieff, but this refers to the three traditional enneagram centers.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #58
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    So you have read a book?
    Yes of course.

    Palmer and her type 9 "Gentle Giant." I can't begin to describe to you how much that description has thrown me off on typing others. Can't a type 9 be of average height? Can't a type 9 be of short stature?
    I can't believe that you are that stupid. Don't you understand that it is a figuarative expresssion, and not literal? However, her books about enneagram are among the most consistent ever wrote according to msot part of praticians, while you ever shown that your understanding of enneagram is extremely poor.

    The Simpson's cartoon is childish.
    It's only what you deserve.

    I can't handle anybody who deals in stereotypes. But just to humor you, I'll read up again on her theory of instinctuals.
    The ocean-moonshine page has this to say about the origin of the instinctual theory:
    "According to Naranjo, Oscar Ichazo, the father of the modern Enneagram of personality, subdivided the instinctual center into three distinct individual centers, namely the instinct for self-preservation, the sexual instinct and the social instinct. Enneagram theorists have been working with these divisions ever since. These instincts are the most primitive portions of our being; they are that in us which is most akin to the other animals and they are affected by our fixations in ways that follow predictable patterns, in ways that are susceptible to analysis and description."

    This concurs with Riso.

    What was this supposed to prove?

    Once again, I didn't say that. Please respond to what I've written and not to some off-the-wall idea about what I've written. And please refrain from saying I wrote something stupid about Ayn Rand when I was reading and studying her philosophy since before you were an itch in your daddy's crotch.
    You wrote stupind things about Haine Rand.



    You "persist" in your ignorance about what the sexual instinctual stacking is.
    I'am sexual, you are not. And others sexual people would say the same thing than me. You are laughable.



    The sexual instinct does not mean "sexually intense,"
    Why do I waste my time with you?

    although it can play into that. Socially she was, as you said, formal.
    No, she was socially enthusiast, as ever said. But did'nt have strong issues on Sx.


    Then you failed to understand her.
    Of course since I don't share your views.


    She lived her life through her novels, except when it came to her sexual relationships with men.
    Sx was her least developed instinct, so it's normal.

    That's the part where she lived out the sexually intense elements of her novels.
    There's not any sexually intense elements in her novels, except if you consider as sexually intense an episode of Santa Barbara. Oh, and wait, did'nt you say that Sx was not about "sexually intense", you contradict yourself on the same post and you are laughable.


    Her sexual theory is a different subject, I only used it to demonstrate that I'm correct about her stacking: the Sx/So "May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it."
    Most part of philosopher have writen something about sex, even if they were often less experienced than a teenager on this. That don't prove anything, Ayn Rand wrote a bit about sex because she thought that her opinion was important and that everybody wanted to hear her views about this, but she did'nt embodyed sexuality like Sx/So do.

    That is a most precise description of what Rand was doing with her theory of sexuality.
    No, you extrapolate completely.
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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  9. #59
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    There's not any sexually intense elements in her novels, except if you consider as sexually intense an episode of Santa Barbara.
    That is completely absurd, especially if you consider the fact that she wrote the controversial rape scene for The Fountainhead in 1940s America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    No, you extrapolate completely.
    "Extrapolate" or not, at least I get my facts correct. What evidence do you have for ANY of the above? I see a lot of innuendo and ad hominem in your writing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Why do I waste my time with you?
    Why don't you offer even a single quote from someone other than yourself that the sex instinctual does not equal sexual intensity? At least then we will have a basis for discussion and possible agreement or compromise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    No, she was socially enthusiast, as ever said. But did'nt have strong issues on Sx.
    That statement is completely meaningless with regard to Rand's life. At social functions she often found herself sitting off in the corner by herself. My, such enthusiasm that is. Try reading just ONE of her biographies.
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  10. #60
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I just checked, Mr. Gavroche. Helen Palmer has no theory of instinctuals. She mentions instincts and such in relationship to Gurdjieff, but this refers to the three traditional enneagram centers.
    She simply explain the same theory that Riso use in her book. So, by reading her books, I know Riso's ideas.

    You are wrong and I'am right. Admit it and go back to school.
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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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