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  1. #11
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Fi users are sensitive to other people's need, you can be called Social if you feel enlarged by the group and the group's cause and instinctively seek that feeling..
    I'd say it's more like feel a need to belong/find a place in the group, do something that will have social impact. You instinctively consider how your actions affect society or the planet as a whole.

    I read an interview with a writer once and she was talking about how she had to write these very personal things about her parents in her memoir, even though she knew it would probably ruin her relationship with them, because she had to be honest in her expression, it was more important than anything. This struck me as a so last 4 pov. Yes, I feel the urge to be honest, but my instinctive pull is to preserve my social ties above else. I would hate myself if I were to do what she did, but she seemed proud of it. This has been one of the bigger obstacles in my life, as allen ginsberg said, "if i'd thought my daddy would read howl, I never would have wrote it."

  2. #12
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Social 4 want to be special and get that feeling from a social status, but they are conflicted with that quest for social statues and their quest for authenticity, when the both are combined they obtain Honor and it's what they seeked, but if they can't have it (and they often feel that they can't because of shame), they prefer to be a monster than to be banal, and to be hated rather than indiference.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  3. #13
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I'd say it's more like feel a need to belong/find a place in the group, do something that will have social impact. You instinctively consider how your actions affect society or the planet as a whole.
    No. You can care about other people's needs with seek for a social status.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  4. #14
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I'd say it's more like feel a need to belong/find a place in the group, do something that will have social impact. You instinctively consider how your actions affect society or the planet as a whole.

    I read an interview with a writer once and she was talking about how she had to write these very personal things about her parents in her memoir, even though she knew it would probably ruin her relationship with them, because she had to be honest in her expression, it was more important than anything. This struck me as a so last 4 pov. Yes, I feel the urge to be honest, but my instinctive pull is to preserve my social ties above else. I would hate myself if I were to do what she did, but she seemed proud of it. This has been one of the bigger obstacles in my life, as allen ginsberg said, "if i'd thought my daddy would read howl, I never would have wrote it."
    I don't really have a strong desire to have an impact on the group. However, I can relate to the Allen Ginsberg quote. I DO care about what people that know me, think of me. Especially family and friends and coworkers. But I also want to be what is intrinsically me. I used to feel such a strong dissonance due to this, until I finally felt as though my family fully accepted me for who I was. However, I still seek their approval... though I may feel passionately attracted to someone, I may feel embarrassed about bringing them home to mom, dad, and sister, due to the judgments they may have towards this person. I'd like to ideally find someone that makes me happy, as well as has the approval of my family. I'm always concerned with what others think. I dislike this aspect of myself, but it's there. I'm incredibly cautious when I interact with others, only allowing them what I am comfortable with them seeing of myself. I'm not antisocial or overly social, but would often prefer to just not be noticed altogether. But I feel as though I have a presence that can't be contained, if that makes any sense. I'm always fully aware of myself and of others in my presence, and often wished I were invisible altogether. As an adaptation to my surroundings, I can be charming, bubbly, friendly.

    I think all three of my instincts are fairly close. But maybe I'm wrong. I also wonder if the things I believe are me being social are more self preservationist and sexual. I'm also single, which I've heard make people appear more social oriented, because you have to put yourself out there in order to fulfill the sexual need for connection.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  5. #15
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Social 4 want to be special and get that feeling from a social status, but they are conflicted with that quest for social statues and their quest for authenticity, when the both are combined they obtain Honor and it's what they seeked, but if they can't have it (and they often feel that they can't because of shame), they prefer to be a monster than to be banal, and to be hated rather than indiference.
    I can't relate to this at all.

    ...I think what would probably be more on key, is wanting to do something "grand" or "special" for the attention of one particular person. That's more sexual than social.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  6. #16
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    I can't relate to this at all.
    That means that ou are not social.

    Hurrah, you found your answer, we can close the thread.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  7. #17
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Social 4 want to be special and get that feeling from a social status, but they are conflicted with that quest for social statues and their quest for authenticity, when the both are combined they obtain Honor and it's what they seeked, but if they can't have it (and they often feel that they can't because of shame), they prefer to be a monster than to be banal, and to be hated rather than indiference.
    From wisdom of the enneagram:

    Social fours:

    In the average range, social fours most seethemselves as unlike others, unique. Their uniqueness is both the gift they bring to others and the burden they must bear.

    The most socially active and engaged fours, they long to be involved with others and part of the social world, but often feel they don't know how. Like threes, they constantly compare themselves to others, always feeling they come up short. They desire to be among the elite, but doubt they are up to it.

    Feelings of shame in social settings eventually lead social fours to believe they don't know how to function like normal people. They envy the happiness of others, while rejecting them as crude and insensitive. They frequently adopt a glamorous, exotic image to cover over their social insecurities. Many social fours become attracted to alternative lifestyle groups to compensate.

    Some social fours may aggressively pursue success as a compensation for their nagging feelings of inadequacy. They react strongly to any statements about themselves, often sifting through past conversations for any hint of a slight. Ironically, they may both defend their defects and feel disadvantaged by them.

    In the unhealthy range, fear of rejection can lead social fours to withdraw almost completely from involvement with others. Shame and expectations of humiliation become so pervasive that they don't want to risk being seen. At the same time, their insecurities render them unable to work in any consistent way. As a result, social fours often become extremely dependent on family, friends, or a significant other. Isolation along with fantasies of achievement may cause unhealthy social fours to waste their lives.
    What you say about monster vs banal... I could see maybe a sexual four thinking that way, but not most social fours. (note the some social fours paragraph... Not ALL.) But yes, indifference sucks. But so does being a monster.

  8. #18
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Social fours:

    In the average range, social fours most seethemselves as unlike others, unique. Their uniqueness is both the gift they bring to others and the burden they must bear.

    The most socially active and engaged fours, they long to be involved with others and part of the social world, but often feel they don't know how. Like threes, they constantly compare themselves to others, always feeling they come up short. They desire to be among the elite, but doubt they are up to it.

    Feelings of shame in social settings eventually lead social fours to believe they don't know how to function like normal people. They envy the happiness of others, while rejecting them as crude and insensitive. They frequently adopt a glamorous, exotic image to cover over their social insecurities. Many social fours become attracted to alternative lifestyle groups to compensate.

    Some social fours may aggressively pursue success as a compensation for their nagging feelings of inadequacy. They react strongly to any statements about themselves, often sifting through past conversations for any hint of a slight. Ironically, they may both defend their defects and feel disadvantaged by them.

    In the unhealthy range, fear of rejection can lead social fours to withdraw almost completely from involvement with others. Shame and expectations of humiliation become so pervasive that they don't want to risk being seen. At the same time, their insecurities render them unable to work in any consistent way. As a result, social fours often become extremely dependent on family, friends, or a significant other. Isolation along with fantasies of achievement may cause unhealthy social fours to waste their lives.
    Some SO descriptions I relate to more than others, so I can never fully decide. It sometimes makes me think that there isn't really anything holding the theory together. I feel like I can somewhat relate to the above.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  9. #19
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Some SO descriptions I relate to more than others, so I can never fully decide. It sometimes makes me think that there isn't really anything holding the theory together. I feel like I can somewhat relate to the above.
    Well, you use all the instincts, and being a four, you're going to use them in a four way. No offense to speed, but I don't know where he gets his info from, and what I'm citing here is considered one of the more authoritative books on the enneagram. That said, I agree it's confusing. If I were you, I'd just go to the basic, not enneatype specific descriptions of the instincts, and just really observe your thoughts, actions, impulses and see what seems to come up the most (that is if you're not currently falling in love or you have to buy a house or you lost a job or you have some big social event cause that might skew things a bit.)

  10. #20
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    http://theenneagram.blogspot.com/2007/09/type-4.html

    have you seen this site? It helped me immensely with my instinctual variant.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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