[so] Understanding the Social Instinct

[Speed Gavroche]

That's 5, not Sp.

 

[Silveresque]

That's 5, not Sp.

Indeed it's 5, but what if it's both?

Chief defensive tendency is to withdraw. Sensitive to feeling saturated by the world, Fives with this subtype lose their sense of privacy easily. Can feel knocked over by people's expectations. In isolation they refind their lost sense of balance and build up to the next round of social stresses. More alienated than the other subtypes. May hide in books, live alone or need their own room where they can close themselves off. Take little from others. Sometimes thin. Likely to hoard time and space. Have solitary hobbies and interests, seek comfort and solace alone.

I think the Sp instinct substantiates the 5's need for time and space. But like you said, it's not a general characteristic of sp-dom. It's probably only in combination with type 5.

 

[Lady_X]

For you Sx/so's, do you believe that having "sp" last makes you more "entrepreneurial" in nature? More willing to take risk, throw caution to the wind, and just go for it?

How do you think your "so" plays into being a risk taking entrepreneurial type?

yes...i always assume i'll be fine...which equals poor foresight in many ways unfortunately.. :/

 

[Lady_X]

sp/soc: The most straightfoward in language, with relatively little trills and embellishments. Points made directly and from personal experience. Business-like. Clear. Cynical. Lacking in internal experience compared to other stackings.

sp/sx: Comes out as somewhat heavy and gloomy, or cool and detached. Often gives out a suffocating and insular vibe, as if their internal world is wrapped around by an impermeable membrane. Strong sensory impressions designed to awake sexuality. Makes one want to linger on one or two lines forever.

soc/sp: Tangential. Lots of details and analysis. Very in-their-head and intellectual, and lacks sensuality. Comes across as level-headed and unspontaneous, but also with personal warmth. Their written works often require a great deal of mental concentration from the readers.

soc/sx: The word "fantastical" comes to mind. Lots of virtuosity and trills, and often removed from the real world. One is whirled away by the dazzling fairies of their colorful imagination. Can be too rich in imagery for their own good. Sustained dramatic power due to their knowledge of interpersonal dynamics.

sx/sp: Intense, often a stab-in-the-chest sensation, leaving me in tears without knowing why. Fantastical but much more concentrated in a few inner images. Can be abstract, animating dead objects into their field of contemplation. Embodiment of another human, thing, or idea is common in their writings.

sx/soc: My impression of their writing is "fire-and-ice", as if one is to experience the extremes of heat and coldness at the same time. Often abstract, spilling one inner vision after another like a dream-sequence. Seems particularly in touch with the core meaning of life and death.

this is one of the most interesting posts ive read in awhile... i don't know that i relate to being fire and ice but what an interesting perception you have of all the variants.

 

[Lady_X]

Nice, thanks for the validation (How I feel it is there is always this awareness, someone walks into a room and it's this, I find you attractive and I can tell you find me attractive too, but typically it's an unconscious nonverbal sense, as I said before.

Some notes I took about the instincts from Riso-Hudson Wisdom of the Enneagram:

Self preservation:
physical safety and comfort- "Does the environment support my sense of well-being? Are my physical needs being met?"

healthy: earthy, practical, take care of basic life necessities

unhealthy: take poor care of self or obsess over health and food; problems with money and organizing affairs; self destructive: instinct turns against self

when it's your least developed instinct: basics of life don't come naturally; lack drive to accumulate wealth or property- bad at managing time and resources, with detrimental affects to their careers, social life, material well-being


Social
desire to be liked/ approved of, feel safe with others: need to feel accepted and necessary, like to feel involved, interact with others for common purposes
aware of power structure and politics between people and groups
like to know what's going on, need to 'touch base' to feel safe, alive, energized
enjoy interacting but avoid intimacy (my personal opinion: facebook is a perfect example of the social instinct; post photos and lightly touch base so you know what's up with no real intimate contact.)

unhealthy: can become extremely anti-social; fear and distrust others, but can't disengage from social connections.

least developed: attending to social endeavors and commitments doesn't come naturally- difficult seeing the point of creating and sustaining social connections. Disregard opinions of others; minimal involvement with community; don't need others; others don't need them. Frequent misunderstandings with others.

Sexual
constant search for connection and an attraction to intense experiences (not just sexual experiences, anything that promises a similar charge). Seek intense contact; "intimacy junkies". Follow their attractions.
positive of type: wide-ranging exploratory approach to life.
negative of type: difficulty focusing on their own real needs and priorities, pursuing own projects, taking care of themselves- always looking outside self for completion: "plug looking for socket". Can become obsessed with a person if they think they are the right one to complete them.

unhealthy: scattered attention and lack of focus. May be sexually promiscuous or trapped in fearful, dysfunctional attitude toward sex and intimacy.

Least developed: attending to matters of intimacy and stimulation, both mental and emotional, does not come naturally. Difficulty being intimate or getting excited; routine-bound. May be socially involved but feel somewhat disconnected or detached, even from family, friends, lovers.

yikes...that sx stuff is so true...i wish it could be turned off.. :/

 

[Hazashin]

Some notes I took about the instincts from Riso-Hudson Wisdom of the Enneagram:

Based on these, I'm Sp-last.

 

[Silveresque]

Now I'm starting to wonder if I might be Sx-last. So much type confusion.

 

[brainheart]

For me, determining my dominant variant is easy- so obviously sexual it's absurd- its the order of the next two that seems kind of arbitrary. Based on the descriptions I posted I seem to be sx/so, but I read the ocean moonshine stuff and watch the video examples and I seem much more sx/sp. (in honesty, I don't relate to the sp much at all- I am very impractical, I have no concept of money, I could care less about food, people talk about health and fitness and I want to run into an electric fence, but the sx/sos seem so dang energetic and extroverted.) So yeah, confusing.

 

[VagrantFarce]

For me, determining my dominant variant is easy- so obviously sexual it's absurd- its the order of the next two that seems kind of arbitrary. Based on the descriptions I posted I seem to be sx/so, but I read the ocean moonshine stuff and watch the video examples and I seem much more sx/sp. (in honesty, I don't relate to the sp much at all- I am very impractical, I have no concept of money, I could care less about food, people talk about health and fitness and I want to run into an electric fence, but the sx/sos seem so dang energetic and extroverted.) So yeah, confusing.

You don't have to be extroverted or energetic to have a more dominant social instinct. Remember, they're like radars - they focus and frame your attention, and nothing else. You can be the most timid, withdrawn, insular person in the world, and you can still predominately perceive yourself in terms of how you relate to the "group".

 

[brainheart]

You don't have to be extroverted or energetic to have a more dominant social instinct. Remember, they're like radars - they focus and frame your attention, and nothing else. You can be the most timid, withdrawn, insular person in the world, and you can still predominately perceive yourself in terms of how you relate to the "group".

Yes, but surely you can agree with me that the sx/so descriptions out there sound pretty extroverted and bold, energetic.

 

[VagrantFarce]

Yes, but surely you can agree with me that the sx/so descriptions out there sound pretty extroverted and bold, energetic.

Well yes, but my point is that the descriptions are irrelevant. Figure out the bare values and principles that the descriptions are based on, then look for those in yourself - that will get you a lot further than looking for a description that sorta-kinda-maybe describes what you're like some of the time.

 

[brainheart]

This was actually really helpful and makes tons of sense: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25627

Especially...

Bitter Earth, I don't see sx/soc as literally 'extroverted'. I don't think a stack/variants make a person extroverted who is otherwise introverted. Sx/soc stack to me is about impact. So, the sx/soc wants to have an impact on the world, which is what is battling with the 4w5 introversion -literally the inability (and unwillingness) to get out of one's own world. Conflicted constantly, yes. Extroverted, no. Also, with SP being last, the inability to ground oneself creates a constantly oscillating nature, a walking vulnerability to both inside and outside events. The irony is that one is affected by the outside world, yet this type does not feel able to step out and get involved, and live life on the level of everyday people. Because then the connection with oneself feels lost. And to be disconnected from oneself is the real tragedy to be avoided.

(and you're right, v.f.)

 

[Speed Gavroche]

This was actually really helpful and makes tons of sense: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=25627

Especially...


(and you're right, v.f.)

Eh, I relate to this pretty well. Actually, a strong part of Sx/So are withdrawn, and the most extremee cases of reclusiveness come from Sx/So: Howard Hughes, Hitler, Axl Rose...

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Indeed it's 5, but what if it's both?



I think the Sp instinct substantiates the 5's need for time and space. But like you said, it's not a general characteristic of sp-dom. It's probably only in combination with type 5.

I started a thread about Sp-last 5s BTW: http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/enneagram/49774-self-pres-last-5s.html

 

[brainheart]

Eh, I relate to this pretty well. Actually, a strong part of Sx/So are withdrawn, and the most extremee cases of reclusiveness come from Sx/So: Howard Hughes, Hitler, Axl Rose...

Seeing those three together... Sorry, hard not to laugh XD

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Seeing those three together... Sorry, hard not to laugh XD

They are 5w6, 6w5 and 6w7 respectively.

 

[brainheart]

They are 5w6, 6w5 and 6w7 respectively.

no, I know. Just my ne got a kick out of it and I saw them like the brat pack singing together on stage. Eh, whatever...

 

[INTPness]

They are 5w6, 6w5 and 6w7 respectively.

What E-types are Pee Wee Herman, Donovan McNabb, Jacob Gyllenhaal, and Mira Sorvino?

 

[Hazashin]

What E-types are Pee Wee Herman, Donovan McNabb, Jacob Gyllenhaal, and Mira Sorvino?

Thumbs up for Donovan McNabb!

 

[Elfboy]

Well yes, but my point is that the descriptions are irrelevant. Figure out the bare values and principles that the descriptions are based on, then look for those in yourself - that will get you a lot further than looking for a description that sorta-kinda-maybe describes what you're like some of the time.

exactly. I'm extremely Sp, but the descriptions I relate most to at face value are the Sx/So ones