Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Instinct variant: dominant most damaged?

[Z Buck McFate]

I was just thinking about this the other day and I came to a vaguely similar conclusion. Although I saw the dominant instinctive variant more as a coping mechanism to counteract the pressures of the environment that your type operates in.

For me, I think I developed the social instinct because of the sheer degree of isolation and cruelty I felt from others. Fours do tend to focus on their difference from others but mine was taken further by just how extreme that was. This is mostly due to the fact that as a child; a) I had no Intuitive or Fi-dom family and friends, and b) I was badly bullied for years on end. I needed to read social structures and heirarchy because I need to know who to be worried about; in other words, who the queen bees and tough guys are. I needed to be flexible to different social situations because I was never 'at home' with anyone around me. I discovered the best way to deal with my isolation was to make myself adaptable to each group and social situation. I hypothesised that perhaps a sp 4 wouldn't have experienced such direct confrontation of their sense of difference as a child. Perhaps they were able to use avoidance and withdrawal to cope with everything; they were able to escape and seek comfort.

This makes sense. I wish I could find examples of things that cause all three variants, according to this theory. When I consider what sorts of things might have caused sp dominance, it kind of merges with e5 for me- because I can't really think of anything that challenged my physical survival when I was younger, only my autonomy as an individual.

 

[skylights]

i tend to think of my "sexual" instinct less as carnal and more as intimate and chemical - in which case, i think my dom variant was really the only one that was very useful in my early childhood - i could not be left to fend for myself sp-wise because of medical issues and i could also not be around more than a very few people so-wise because of the same medical stuff. i just didn't know the sp or so worlds until much later in life. intimate relationships were my world. i am still like that. i focus on one-to-one chemistry over everything else. even when i'm with a group i feel like i connect with each person individually, and requires much more energy for me to focus on the group as a whole.

my point being, i don't think it was necessarily the most damaged - sp is probably my most damaged, because it's a relative fail - but there appears to be a good reason that sx came to stand out and take precedence over the others. perhaps this is true for most of us who don't feel particularly damage in that area - that there is still some reason our variant came to the forefront.

 

[Nomenclature]

So you're saying my sexual instinct is damaged because I place too much emphasis on being sexually attractive?

No, I'm saying that the instinct could manifest for many different reasons that haven't already been mentioned.

 

[brainheart]

How could sp get damaged? Being scared/ poor/ caught in dangerous experiences?

If I were to follow this model, it makes me think I'm an sx/so or so/sx.

This instinctual variant thing confuses me like none other.

 

[Hive]

Idk. We were somewhat poor when I grew up and there wasn't lot of stability; the only mark it left on me is that made me the opposite of spoiled and able to anchor even in chaotic environments. However, my parents separated two times and it probably made me feel a bit abandoned; they denied me a connection and therefore I move away from them and seek deep connection with others. All of my friends who still have their parents living together and were able to afford nice clothes and vacations and overall had a happy childhood are more often than not Sp-doms.

 

[brainheart]

For me, I think I developed the social instinct because of the sheer degree of isolation and cruelty I felt from others. Fours do tend to focus on their difference from others but mine was taken further by just how extreme that was. This is mostly due to the fact that as a child; a) I had no Intuitive or Fi-dom family and friends, and b) I was badly bullied for years on end. I needed to read social structures and heirarchy because I need to know who to be worried about; in other words, who the queen bees and tough guys are. I needed to be flexible to different social situations because I was never 'at home' with anyone around me. I discovered the best way to deal with my isolation was to make myself adaptable to each group and social situation. I hypothesised that perhaps a sp 4 wouldn't have experienced such direct confrontation of their sense of difference as a child. Perhaps they were able to use avoidance and withdrawal to cope with everything; they were able to escape and seek comfort.

Definitely seems possible/likely. I too was bullied, had no friends, but I had my sister, who has always loved me for me, and I had my books, my interests, my land to explore. I feel like I've always been relatively good at self-soothing. Social situations are kind of hit or miss for me- some I enjoy and I feel at ease, others I feel totally out of my element and avoid. So I have no idea what that means. I know that when I was bullied I just wanted to be left alone, I had no interest in hierarchy of power, etc. Unstable intimate relationships, however, destroy me. So I guess sp is where I'm most balanced, which makes me... Sx/sp?

What you say reminds me much of a so dom four friend of mine.

 

[brainheart]

Or would the dominant instinct be more like the aspect you keep trying to work on but it seems like you make little progress in this area, like you're never good enough for your standards at it? It's where you always feel a little inadequate even though it matters to you?

 

[Thalassa]

No, I'm saying that the instinct could manifest for many different reasons that haven't already been mentioned.

I just think I was an sx dom long before that happened, which was in my mid-twenties btw, so my personality was already fully formed.

I disagree with the damaged theory, though maybe I place more priority on my sexual or intimacy instinct than non-sx doms would view as "healthy." But I'd say the same thing about someone who seems excessively self-protective or social because they aren't my dominant instincts.

So maybe nothing is damaged, it's just that one is preferred over the rest (and my sx and sp are pretty close, though I'm definitely sx dom...my so last, on the other hand, is pretty low down there) and that people who don't share that dom instinct *perceive* it as being exaggerated or something.


It's just perception.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Or would the dominant instinct be more like the aspect you keep trying to work on but it seems like you make little progress in this area, like you're never good enough for your standards at it? It's where you always feel a little inadequate even though it matters to you?

I suspect it has little to do with our standards as adults- so it’s not going to be like the dom instinct drive is ‘never good enough’- it’s just that it got pushed to the forefront of thought while thought processes were congealing and becoming patterns/established. Habits stay habits after they’ve stopped being useful, and this is probably just as true (if not moreso) for unconscious ones. I get the impression this is what the writers are saying- not that there’s something inadequate about the instinct now, only that we learned to pay special attention to it because initially it caused more anxiety than the others. It would stand to reason- like shortnsweet said “security seems the easiest to fix”- it’s the one we have the best handle on because it’s the one we’ve paid the most attention to.

As others have mentioned, I wonder what ‘damaged’ even means specifically to these writers. I think it’s implied that it’s environmental, but it seems to me like congenital traits could easily also play a role.

A couple of people have mentioned that their inferior variant drive is the one that seems harder to ‘fix’ or work on. I certainly know this is also the case with me. This is why this is of interest to me. If there’s something to this theory- that it’s inferior because we are unconsciously primed to take it for granted as something that will work if we don’t pay attention (because it relieved anxiety to pay more attention to the dominant)- then it’s something worth throwing into the mix when I’m considering why I’m so averse at times to the so variant. It was not the purpose of the op to point out how broken people are, to propagate neuroticism or to give anyone something to beat themselves or others up with- but to explore unconscious drives and how they affect thoughts/behavior patterns. If it isn’t helpful in a practical way, then it’s probably not a good idea to spend any amount of time thinking about it.

 

[ICUP]

In the book I have, they use the word "distorted". It's "twisted out of the true meaning or proportion". Somehow, during childhood, we possibly got the idea that the dominant variant meant something it didn't mean..... and possibly took on the idea that it meant more than it meant, or didn't mean. So it could just mean that we saw sx as being more important to survival and life than so or sp, for example, when in reality, it wasn't. Not necessarily damaged, but a distorted view of reality, and then we continue to live according to that view. (We continue to live with a distorted view that sx means more than sp or so, for example.) It seems like it could've come to fruition by simply watching my sx dad and learning from him, and therefore learning that sx was more important..... by seeing his distortions, and copy-catting them. I'm not so sure that my sx dominant came about because it was damaged, but possibly that something occurred psychologically to make me believe it was.

I think that the damage occurs now because I view sx as being most important. If someone that I want rejects me sexually, it tears me apart, whereas, an so/sp can be rejected and it does a fraction of the damage. The damage is all in the mind. Damage: "Harm or injury to property or a person, resulting in loss of value or the impairment of usefulness." Yes, I suppose my sx is damaged (impaired, less healthy). I see this impairment existing as a manifestation of fear. Because the dominant instinct is powerful within me, I fear it more. Fear that I am going to be hurt by someone I adore, fear of giving all of myself and then being cheated on and rejected, fear that others will not think I am attractive, etc. And I fear these things because I fear the damages they can cause. (In other words, it hurts like fuck, and it takes me a while to recover lol). I fear the repercussions of any of these things happening, because it is dangerous to my health and survival. I fear that my dominant instinct is out-of-control, and therefore, I can be manipulated by it, so I try to control it.

The more I study typology, the more weird humans become haha.

 

[Southern Kross]

When I consider what sorts of things might have caused sp dominance, it kind of merges with e5 for me- because I can't really think of anything that challenged my physical survival when I was younger, only my autonomy as an individual.

Hmmm, I'm not sure what develops first, instinctive variants or type. I doubt that sp always develops from a need general physical survival. I think it would evolve in relation to type - ie. what sp means to a 5. I imagine a sp 5 would have had an even greater struggle for security and comfort through withdrawal. It would exaggerate the 5 characteristics to a greater extreme.

Definitely seems possible/likely. I too was bullied, had no friends, but I had my sister, who has always loved me for me, and I had my books, my interests, my land to explore. I feel like I've always been relatively good at self-soothing. Social situations are kind of hit or miss for me- some I enjoy and I feel at ease, others I feel totally out of my element and avoid. So I have no idea what that means. I know that when I was bullied I just wanted to be left alone, I had no interest in hierarchy of power, etc. Unstable intimate relationships, however, destroy me. So I guess sp is where I'm most balanced, which makes me... Sx/sp?

What you say reminds me much of a so dom four friend of mine.

I did have a family who loved me but I did always feel my difference from them. They endevoured to understand me as best they could but of course it was easier for me to adapt to their ways than the other way around.

Its hard to know with your situation. It may not be a requirement that your dominant variant is uncomfortable for you; that may be depend on enneagram and MBTI type. As a 4w5 (and an INFP) I would have preferred to have responded in a sp way but wasn't able to. I don't think this theory necessarily undermines you sp status.

Or would the dominant instinct be more like the aspect you keep trying to work on but it seems like you make little progress in this area, like you're never good enough for your standards at it? It's where you always feel a little inadequate even though it matters to you?

That's certainly possible. I feel that way about so

In the book I have, they use the word "distorted". It's "twisted out of the true meaning or proportion". Somehow, during childhood, we possibly got the idea that the dominant variant meant something it didn't mean..... and possibly took on the idea that it meant more than it meant, or didn't mean. So it could just mean that we saw sx as being more important to survival and life than so or sp, for example, when in reality, it wasn't. Not necessarily damaged, but a distorted view of reality, and then we continue to live according to that view. (We continue to live with a distorted view that sx means more than sp or so, for example.) It seems like it could've come to fruition by simply watching my sx dad and learning from him, and therefore learning that sx was more important..... by seeing his distortions, and copy-catting them.

Yes, these are good points.

 

[justwannabeMe]

great thread

 

[EJCC]

Very interesting thread. Haven't read it all yet; will post again (or edit this post) once I have.

In the meantime: One of the first things I wonder is whether extroverted children of introverts are more likely to be so-dom and/or sp-last? Introverts are more likely to be sp-dom, it seems like -- or, at least, to focus a lot on sp needs in their daily lives/as parents -- meaning, sp needs would be a given and always provided. And introverts also aren't as likely to have big circles of friends that they spend a lot of time with -- meaning, an extroverted child would have to work very hard from the get-go to meet their social needs, which the parents, as introverts, wouldn't understand all that well.

(Obviously the above musings are biased, what with me being an extrovert, so/sx/sp, and the child of two introverted parents who are both likely sp first or second)

Also not sure how I feel about the word "damaged", here, but I'll think on it...

 

[highlander]

From this site.

So, question for those who have studied enneagram for a longer time than myself: is this the prevailing assumption or is it more specific to this site/this person (Katherine Chernick Fauvre)? I can’t say I’ve researched instinct variant extensively, but this is the first time I’ve seen this.

This is an enlightening thread. I missed it in 2011 as I was on a mini-hiatus at the time. Fauvre conducted a study of the existing literature on instinctual subtypes and also conducted surveys to gather a set of information, which is presented in this spiral bound document. If you can get through the disconnected nature of the content, it pulls together a lot of information from different sources into one place. There isn't a tremendous amount of analysis in there but I found it to be useful. It includes quotes and brief comments on each of the three instincts for each of the 9 enneatypes and a lot of references to other sources for the quotes.

In the book I have, they use the word "distorted". It's "twisted out of the true meaning or proportion". Somehow, during childhood, we possibly got the idea that the dominant variant meant something it didn't mean..... and possibly took on the idea that it meant more than it meant, or didn't mean. So it could just mean that we saw sx as being more important to survival and life than so or sp, for example, when in reality, it wasn't. Not necessarily damaged, but a distorted view of reality, and then we continue to live according to that view. (We continue to live with a distorted view that sx means more than sp or so, for example.) It seems like it could've come to fruition by simply watching my sx dad and learning from him, and therefore learning that sx was more important..... by seeing his distortions, and copy-catting them. I'm not so sure that my sx dominant came about because it was damaged, but possibly that something occurred psychologically to make me believe it was.

I think that the damage occurs now because I view sx as being most important. If someone that I want rejects me sexually, it tears me apart, whereas, an so/sp can be rejected and it does a fraction of the damage. The damage is all in the mind. Damage: "Harm or injury to property or a person, resulting in loss of value or the impairment of usefulness." Yes, I suppose my sx is damaged (impaired, less healthy). I see this impairment existing as a manifestation of fear. Because the dominant instinct is powerful within me, I fear it more. Fear that I am going to be hurt by someone I adore, fear of giving all of myself and then being cheated on and rejected, fear that others will not think I am attractive, etc. And I fear these things because I fear the damages they can cause. (In other words, it hurts like fuck, and it takes me a while to recover lol). I fear the repercussions of any of these things happening, because it is dangerous to my health and survival. I fear that my dominant instinct is out-of-control, and therefore, I can be manipulated by it, so I try to control it.

ICUP's description resonates pretty well for me. That might in part be because she's a 6 sx as well.

The key thing that I see about this instinct subtype is that it's a "weakness masquerading as a strength." For an SP dominant type, their basic desire is for security and that can never be satisfied. There is never enough security. It is important to an excess of what it should be for the individual. For me as an Sx, intimate or one on one relationships is probably the area where I'm most vulnerable. It's not that I'm not good at developing and sustaining them - because I am quite good at it. There is however an over-preoccupation with this particular thing, a desire for more and an insecurity related to it that is a distortion of reality.

 

[mintleaf]

The more you care about something, the more it's going to hurt when you fail to attain it; you're more vulnerable to losses in that area. I'm not an expert by any means, but I don't think I would equate "damaged" to "defective" here. It just makes sense that this is where a person would carry the bulk of their scars.

My experience has been that I'm most "damaged" in the SX arena because it's my dominant instinct, and not the other way around. When it comes to personal growth, achieving it in this area is most important to me, so it's most prone to growing pains: the self-doubt, frustration and confusion that comes with attempted development.

edit: I know that the subject of this thread is whether it was damaged originally -- but the theory doesn't make sense to me for the above reasons. I don't know, though.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Also not sure how I feel about the word "damaged", here, but I'll think on it...

Yes, the title is regrettable. I think I was still in the process of gathering info about it when I made the thread. I think I've emphasized originally, but it's still going to make people defensive to even loosely insinuate *damage*. If anything though, I'd say my least is 'damaged' now from years of neglect (on account of having been able to take it for granted growing up). I feel no urgency to meet so variant needs, but that doesn't make them go away- so it's a banal chore that I avoid wherever/whenever I can.

***

I've since changed my opinion to being sx dom for myself- and really, it makes more sense than sp when taking 'originally most neglected need' into account. I was on the fence for a while, then finally decided to take Fauvre's online test- if those questions are any indication of the difference between sx and sp, then there's little doubt in my mind I'm sx.

 

[Evo]

In the book I have, they use the word "distorted". It's "twisted out of the true meaning or proportion". Somehow, during childhood, we possibly got the idea that the dominant variant meant something it didn't mean..... and possibly took on the idea that it meant more than it meant, or didn't mean. So it could just mean that we saw sx as being more important to survival and life than so or sp, for example, when in reality, it wasn't. Not necessarily damaged, but a distorted view of reality, and then we continue to live according to that view. (We continue to live with a distorted view that sx means more than sp or so, for example.) It seems like it could've come to fruition by simply watching my sx dad and learning from him, and therefore learning that sx was more important..... by seeing his distortions, and copy-catting them. I'm not so sure that my sx dominant came about because it was damaged, but possibly that something occurred psychologically to make me believe it was.

I think that the damage occurs now because I view sx as being most important. If someone that I want rejects me sexually, it tears me apart, whereas, an so/sp can be rejected and it does a fraction of the damage. The damage is all in the mind. Damage: "Harm or injury to property or a person, resulting in loss of value or the impairment of usefulness." Yes, I suppose my sx is damaged (impaired, less healthy). I see this impairment existing as a manifestation of fear. Because the dominant instinct is powerful within me, I fear it more. Fear that I am going to be hurt by someone I adore, fear of giving all of myself and then being cheated on and rejected, fear that others will not think I am attractive, etc. And I fear these things because I fear the damages they can cause. (In other words, it hurts like fuck, and it takes me a while to recover lol). I fear the repercussions of any of these things happening, because it is dangerous to my health and survival. I fear that my dominant instinct is out-of-control, and therefore, I can be manipulated by it, so I try to control it.

The more I study typology, the more weird humans become haha.

This is an awesome post. I was wondering how u came to the conclusion that you're sx/sp? I'm having trouble with figuring this out myself.