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  1. #11
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    From this site.




    So, question for those who have studied enneagram for a longer time than myself: is this the prevailing assumption or is it more specific to this site/this person (Katherine Chernick Fauvre)? I can’t say I’ve researched instinct variant extensively, but this is the first time I’ve seen this.

    It's consistent with my own experience. Right now, I'm guessing so/sp/sx as my variant stacking and SO is definitely the most damaged of the three. I was wounded alot socially in my childhood.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I've read the second drive is the more balanced.
    In my case, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Right. And by extension, your "last" instinct isn't necessarily something you're bad at, it's just rarely ever a focus. In isolation, you wouldn't even pay attention to it because it rarely demands any. It's only in juxtaposition with another individual where the lack of focus ever becomes apparent. When an So last interacts with an So first, the So last isn't really sure what to do because the other is emphasizing elements of the world around them that the So last is barely even aware of.
    Also true of my experience.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    From this site.



    So, question for those who have studied enneagram for a longer time than myself: is this the prevailing assumption or is it more specific to this site/this person (Katherine Chernick Fauvre)? I can’t say I’ve researched instinct variant extensively, but this is the first time I’ve seen this.
    Hmm.. for me, personal relationships and security both seem damaged, though I think that more damage was done from the former, as I still greatly struggle with relationships, I only have a few very old and healthy ones. (Friendships.) Most are unhealthy and full of miscommunication. Security seems easier to fix.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  3. #13
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    The link doesn't work for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    Okay yeah, I found this in Helen Palmer’s Enneagram book (and being only a couple paragraphs, figured I’d post it).

    The operation of the belly center is largely unconscious, but can be recognized by the fact that we each have pressing concerns about issues that affect our physical survival (self-preservation), sexuality, and social life.

    There is a teaching that relates to the subtypes. A cowherd sat on a three legged stool to milk. The milk may refer to the nourishment of teachings or the nourishment of life. One leg of the stool was damaged, and so as he milked, his field of perception was slanted towards the damaged leg of his base. What the story suggests is that we may have three primary areas of relationship and that one of these areas is more afflicted than the other two. As a result of one area of relationship being damaged, a mental preoccupation develops that lessens the anxiety that surrounds that area of our life. The three kinds of relationship are sexual (intimate and other one-to-one relationships), social (group), and self-preservation (our relationship to personal survival). As adults we are sensitive to all three psychological preoccupations that apply to our type, but one will predominate as a more deeply felt concern. For example all Threes will focus a lot of attention on security, prestige, and masculine/feminine image, but one of those words will be the focal point of more concern than the other two. If the three has been the most damaged in the area of self-preservation, then we could also hypothesize that the primary area of concern, which would be security, would also be affected by the chief feature of vanity and the passion of deceit.
    I was just thinking about this the other day and I came to a vaguely similar conclusion. Although I saw the dominant instinctive variant more as a coping mechanism to counteract the pressures of the environment that your type operates in.

    For me, I think I developed the social instinct because of the sheer degree of isolation and cruelty I felt from others. Fours do tend to focus on their difference from others but mine was taken further by just how extreme that was. This is mostly due to the fact that as a child; a) I had no Intuitive or Fi-dom family and friends, and b) I was badly bullied for years on end. I needed to read social structures and heirarchy because I need to know who to be worried about; in other words, who the queen bees and tough guys are. I needed to be flexible to different social situations because I was never 'at home' with anyone around me. I discovered the best way to deal with my isolation was to make myself adaptable to each group and social situation. I hypothesised that perhaps a sp 4 wouldn't have experienced such direct confrontation of their sense of difference as a child. Perhaps they were able to use avoidance and withdrawal to cope with everything; they were able to escape and seek comfort.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #14
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    I'm not sure what "damaged" means, but I can be very certain that I was never, ever physically neglected as an infant (ISFJ mom never let me out of her sight )

    We did relocate once, way before I could remember things. If my infant self viewed that as threatening to my well-being then it could be as you said. (But mostly I blame it on my inferior Se not knowing how to deal with my surroundings)

    Actually I always thought my sp/sx-ness came from learning -- my mom's pretty safety-based and she is always very prepared for everything.
    4w5 sp/sx EII

  5. #15
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    Damaged? How? I was never molested. I grew up in a house where I was told that sex was a normal natural thing and I got "the talk" at home when I was about 8 years old. Of course, when I was a teenager my grandfather tried to tie me down in a small cage, but I'm pretty sure I was a sx dom before that happened, and that's why I scared him so much.

    Nope, I don't agree with your theory. If anything I think I have a healthier relationship with my sexual instinct than a lot of people.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    I'm not sure what "damaged" means, but I can be very certain that I was never, ever physically neglected as an infant (ISFJ mom never let me out of her sight )

    We did relocate once, way before I could remember things. If my infant self viewed that as threatening to my well-being then it could be as you said. (But mostly I blame it on my inferior Se not knowing how to deal with my surroundings)

    Actually I always thought my sp/sx-ness came from learning -- my mom's pretty safety-based and she is always very prepared for everything.
    Yeah I think I'm sx first by nature, and sp aux by upbringing, since I was raised by very careful old-fashioned SJs.

    If anything is damaged it's my last instinct, my social instinct. But frankly I don't care.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomenclature View Post
    Perhaps getting hurt early on in your dating experiences, whether because you felt you weren't good enough to keep the object of your affections, or because you were initially scared of intimacy. I can totally relate to that. I know that it's true for 3 SXs in general, not sure about the other types though.
    This didn't happen to me. Didn't happen until I was older. In fact, until I was about 20 years old I thought I had magical powers to make any guy I had a crush on like me.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Nomenclature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    This didn't happen to me. Didn't happen until I was older. In fact, until I was about 20 years old I thought I had magical powers to make any guy I had a crush on like me.
    No, but you did mention that you started to notice how people treated you differently when you started gaining weight, yeah?
    ISTP 3w2 SX/SO

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomenclature View Post
    No, but you did mention that you started to notice how people treated you differently when you started gaining weight, yeah?
    So you're saying my sexual instinct is damaged because I place too much emphasis on being sexually attractive?

    I could see some people being of that opinion, but I'm not. I used to work as a topless dancer and I know women much more obsessed with their appearance, et al, than I am. I at least have other aspects of my self and personality and mind that I value.

    So I disagree. I'm still young. I still want to attract men and have sex. I don't think that's crazy.

  10. #20
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    1. It’s not my theory, it’s something I found at some woman’s site (I credited her in the op), I was asking if anyone had heard it before.

    2. Again:
    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I think I titled this poorly. The point is that it was damaged originally, and so the individual becomes preoccupied with it above the others to compensate for that damage. So it isn't necessarily the most damaged- in fact, since it's where focus unconsciously goes it's probably more adept than the other variant drives in a person- but it's more adept because a person is unconsciously primed to pay special attention to it.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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