[sx] You know you're an sx-dom when...

[Starry]

I know that a lot of people on this thread are saying that I'm actually so/sx as opposed to an sx dom. However, there are a few things about myself that I would like to share with you all to help you to understand why I believe myself to be an sx dom.

1. I've pretty much always craved intimacy ever since I was a child.

When I was a child I was like a love sick puppy. All I cared about was finding a mate. In fact, when I was very young I would make up fantasy style tales of finding the perfect lover and how amazing it would be. This is literally all that I thought of as a child: I was literally like a Disney mother fucker. Hell, I remember when I was in grade school I even joined the school chorus to just to get with this one woman that I deeply cared for. It just made me so happy to be around her, lol. When I was around her, it was almost like a sense of pure ecstacy came over me. Well of course I did later get with the girl, but we later wound up breaking up due to our young age, lol.

2. I think I've changed my relationship perspective a lot sense my mother and father's divorce.

Anyway, my search for this one perfect lover continued until I was out of high school and then everything changed...forever. One of the reasons that I was so gung ho on finding a wife in high school was because my mother and father's relationship was so happy throughout my entire childhood. I thought to myself, "I want what my parents have, but I want that for myself.", so my search continued. However, in 2007 both of my parents went to jail, my mother then met a crackhead in jail who she fell in love with, brought her home, told us that she was just a friend that she was trying to help, and deceived us all. Long story short, my mother wound up selling everything that we cared about in the house (about $200,000.00) worth of stuff that my parents had accumulated throughout the years, left my father for this other woman, stole my car through a legal battle, and deserted us all. She did all of this within a period of 6 months. After seeing this, it left me feeling broken and scarred forever inside, and I now I found myself afraid of falling in love with a woman.

Anyway, yeah this is why I think that I might be an sx dom.
[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

Great One, forgive me for taking so long to respond past when I said I would. I mentioned as a joke to another member that my delay had to do with the fact I actually am a sx-dom... And instead of addressing the issues I put forth in a thread haha...the topic shifted to me being made to defend myself against accusations of being angry, etc. when that wasn't my experience...(if you are sx-dom you will get use to this bs too. And yes, I used the term 'bs' special-like 'cause that's what sx doms do)

I also want to say I have a great deal of empathy and compassion for the hardship you suffered when your family fell apart. If you did not know this previously I'm quite certain you know now - how Life doesn't stop when your world crumbles to the ground. And it can become confusing if you make the mistake of comparing yourself with others (don't do this!) if you start to wonder how this person or that person handled seemingly worse hardships with seemingly greater ease. <--acknowledge that this does occur. But remain mindful of the fact there are hardships...And there are upheavals. One taxes the resources you depend upon for survival/coping...and the other strips you of those resources and turns you out. If given the choice between the two experiences I know which one I'd choose a million times over...And I'm quite certain you know as much too.

I came to this site on the tail of an upheaval (tail what hell am I saying tail for? I came in the eye of an upheaval). And you will find posts from my earlier history here talking about how '6w7 as fuck' I was. I have mentioned this to you before now that I'm thinking of it (and Lady X agreed having gone through a similar experience)... but with everything you wrote above as well? As I live and breath...you are a 7w6 that got his ass kicked by an upheaval...and just can't identify with the super-human that never has a bad day... which seems to be the cornerstone of every e7 description. Keep on embracing the 6 and 7 in that order. I did it. Lady X did it. It will make sense to you...I know. But while nothing is certain in my mind...with your e-type...this is damn near as close as I get.

With what you said in the paragraph of your childhood... this doesn't tell me anything I can truly use to determine variant. What it does do is tell the story of a child glutton. In other words, many e7s become gluttonous for dreams and ideals. Shit, just the fact you utilized the word Disney in that paragraph automatically makes you 7w6 in my opinion...because that's exactly what it is. While normal children are enjoying Disneyland once every 2-5 years or so on the family vacation...e7 children actually live there in their minds. And yes, the dream/ideal consumption often includes a great deal of fairytaleish romance. Many e7s carry this 'addiction' to romantic idealism into adulthood.

This information actually makes you more challenging to type for the variants.

Tell me truly...how do you most often type on MBTI even if you don't agree with those results. Do you really test as ENTP? Or did you come by this because people sorta backed you into that box?

With what seems like such high levels of Fe from you I've even tossed around the idea of ESFJ...but while I do not believe Elfboy is an ENFP 7w6 under any condition...YOU may in fact be. I have heard of ENTP 7w6s reporting similar things from childhood...but admit it is far more likely out of the mouth of an ENFP. And interestingly enough...ENFPs that are so/sx...regardless of e-type...seem to present with some kind of faux-Fe.

All this to say...I'm still holding at ExxP 7w6 so/sx.

 

[small.wonder]

I always get these types of definitions of sx from NF's. However, I'm wondering if many sx defintions have an nf bias though because I know many NT and STP sx doms that wouldn't really relate as much to these sx descriptons. I'm wondering if sx can manifest itself in these particular types in a different way?

Sorry I'm responding to this so late! Yes, I'm sure sx can look quite different depending on MB or core Enneagram type. When you say "these types of definitions", which part of my description were you referring to? I suppose it could've been the entire thing, just curious which part read NF to you.

I should say, I can relate to a lot of the violence-tinted intensity of sx too. Someone on this thread mentioned wanted to punch people out, or stare them down or something along those lines. I do get that rush sometimes, almost like I can hear the Braveheart soundtrack in my head as I give everyone who passes me a direct and level stare. I know that sounds stupid (it probably is), but that's my best description of it. I feel the same way when it rains heavily or the wind is strong, and I walk out directly into it. It's something about being unhindered.

Is that NF-ish too? I unfortunately do not have a handle on very much Meyers Briggs yet, I know much more about Enneagram anyway.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION]

I just don't relate to what the other so/sx 6w7's are saying though. In fact, I wish I could find the description again but I heard that the so/sx 6w7's are basically a lot like 2w3's. In fact, from what I've read they basically just feel like helpless puppies in the world and they need to find someone to help them to survive it basically. Also, just like 2w3's, their sense of safety often depends on being liked. In fact, a lot of times, when they aren't liked by people they often freak out. If this is true, I just don't relate to this at all.
[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

1. Yes, I know many people have pitched the idea to me that I am actually a mistyped 7w6 that just has PTSD, and this would make a lot of sense as well. I am now investigating this more thoroughly.

2.When I take a classic MBTI test I usually test ENFJ or ENFP.

3. When I take a cognitive functions test, I get this....

Your Cognitive Functions:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||||||||| 11.85
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||||||||| 10.98
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) |||||||||||||||||||| 9.22
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||||||||||| 9.22
Introverted Feeling (Fi) ||||||| 2.54
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||| 2
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||| 1.31
Extroverted Sensation (Se) ||||| -3.75

Based on your cognitive functions, your type is most likely:
Most Likely: ENTP
or Second Possibility: INFJ
or Third Possibility: ENFJ

4. I can't see myself as a core ENFJ though because I say too many offensive things.

5.Yeah I admit that what I said didn't seem ENTP at all. In fact, it sounded NF as fuck.

 

[skylights]

ENFPs that are so/sx...regardless of e-type...seem to present with some kind of faux-Fe.

Aaaaand that'd be me.

@skylights

I just don't relate to what the other so/sx 6w7's are saying though. In fact, I wish I could find the description again but I heard that the so/sx 6w7's are basically a lot like 2w3's. In fact, from what I've read they basically just feel like helpless puppies in the world and they need to find someone to help them to survive it basically. Also, just like 2w3's, their sense of safety often depends on being liked. In fact, a lot of times, when they aren't liked by people they often freak out. If this is true, I just don't relate to this at all.

Well, you can see I've just changed over to so/sx instead of sx/so, and I'm observing in day-to-day life how it really does fit me better. And my tritype is 6w7-2w3-9w1, but I don't really relate with feeling like a helpless puppy, lol. I do struggle with sp issues, of course, and I do derive a sense of security from being liked. But I also provide for myself, have kept long-term employment, save money, have a good, steady relationship, have had the had the same car for 8 years and it's still in good condition, have a good credit score entirely thanks to my own work, am a secure traveller, am well-educated, and feel generally competent in most situations. Given, I might "freak out" if person who disliked me was an important authority (because I'm not interested in anyone screwing me from above) or someone I really respected. But a 3 wing gives a certain amount of focus on competency - and 2 would much prefer to be the helper, not the helped, as 2 derives pride from their ability to help.

The funny thing for me - and my boyfriend was noticing this yesterday, in fact - is that when it comes to helping others, I'm 110% competent and secure. I generally know how to get whatever they want or need and I'm not shy about doing it for them. But it's when it comes to myself - choosing what's best for myself - that I completely fail and my competency goes out the window. I have almost zero faith in my ability to choose well for myself. I do seek information from others but I don't seek a "rescuer" because I wouldn't trust them anyway - ultimately you have to accept a rescuer as being the one able to rescue you, after all. Unfortunately, the only thing I need rescuing from is myself. I still don't end up at helpless puppy - just indecisive, insecure puppy.

In any case, I couldn't see you as a core ENFJ either. You don't come off as a dominant Judger at all.

Do listen to [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]. She's very insightful... I, too, could see you as ENxP 7w6 who had a really shitty run-in with reality.

 

[The Great One]

Aaaaand that'd be me.



Well, you can see I've just changed over to so/sx instead of sx/so, and I'm observing in day-to-day life how it really does fit me better. And my tritype is 6w7-2w3-9w1, but I don't really relate with feeling like a helpless puppy, lol. I do struggle with sp issues, of course, and I do derive a sense of security from being liked. But I also provide for myself, have kept long-term employment, save money, have a good, steady relationship, have had the had the same car for 8 years and it's still in good condition, have a good credit score entirely thanks to my own work, am a secure traveller, am well-educated, and feel generally competent in most situations. Given, I might "freak out" if person who disliked me was an important authority (because I'm not interested in anyone screwing me from above) or someone I really respected. But a 3 wing gives a certain amount of focus on competency - and 2 would much prefer to be the helper, not the helped, as 2 derives pride from their ability to help.

The funny thing for me - and my boyfriend was noticing this yesterday, in fact - is that when it comes to helping others, I'm 110% competent and secure. I generally know how to get whatever they want or need and I'm not shy about doing it for them. But it's when it comes to myself - choosing what's best for myself - that I completely fail and my competency goes out the window. I have almost zero faith in my ability to choose well for myself. I do seek information from others but I don't seek a "rescuer" because I wouldn't trust them anyway - ultimately you have to accept a rescuer as being the one able to rescue you, after all. Unfortunately, the only thing I need rescuing from is myself. I still don't end up at helpless puppy - just indecisive, insecure puppy.

In any case, I couldn't see you as a core ENFJ either. You don't come off as a dominant Judger at all.

Do listen to [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]. She's very insightful... I, too, could see you as ENxP 7w6 who had a really shitty run-in with reality.

Yeah I used to suck at solving problems. I had absolutely no faith in myself to solve them and I thought that I would fuck up everything. However, I'm now great at solving problems and have improved significantly over the years. I'm personally still on the fence about whether I'm a 6w7 or 7w6 though. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm a Ti<Fe user so I can't really see myself being an ENFP.

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

2.When I take a classic MBTI test I usually test ENFJ or ENFP.

3. When I take a cognitive functions test, I get this....

Your Cognitive Functions:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||||||||| 11.85
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||||||||| 10.98
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) |||||||||||||||||||| 9.22
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||||||||||| 9.22
Introverted Feeling (Fi) ||||||| 2.54
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||| 2
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||| 1.31
Extroverted Sensation (Se) ||||| -3.75

Based on your cognitive functions, your type is most likely:
Most Likely: ENTP
or Second Possibility: INFJ
or Third Possibility: ENFJ

4. I can't see myself as a core ENFJ though because I say too many offensive things.

5.Yeah I admit that what I said didn't seem ENTP at all. In fact, it sounded NF as fuck.

OMgosh, I didn’t specify...but I’m super glad you included both MBTI & function results because for you...both are needed to tell your story.

You are 100 percent ENTP.

I have absolutely no idea why this happens but ENTPs that are Ne>Fe>Ti or Ne>Fe=Ti will score as ENFP on the MBTI. Without any sense as to how the MBTI is tabulated I don’t know if this occurs because they do something that looks like Extroversion + Intuition + Feeling = ENFP or if Ne>Fe ENTPs actually select answers based on their own experience that the MBTI reserves specifically for ENFPs (I have no clue). Looking at the breakdown of your cognitive functions…I imagine an ENFJ result on the MBTI makes sense as well but doesn’t do anything to help isolate how/why things go wrong in the first place (I’m sure someone here knows.)

As you know, an individual’s cognitive function results will fluctuate. I also I get the feeling you will understand what I’m asking and why when I say… Do you know if you are over-extroverting/stuck in a Ne/Fe loop due to the PTSD you mention above? Or do you believe Ne>Ni>Fe>Ti is accurate and represents who you truly are and have always been? It’s weird because if you knew you were stuck in that specific loop I would say hold-off on attempting to assign yourself a variant…because stress-induced Ne>Fe becomes a bottomless pit of desperately-seeking external validation (both personal and social validation)…and can resemble sx or so depending. With you, I get the sense this is merely how you are regardless. Obviously, I don’t know that for certain but will proceed as if that were the case until I hear differently. I think you are merely a ‘NF as fuck’ kind of ENTP.

With this in mind, if you were an e3 core…I imagine you would look very much like an ENFJish-ENTP. In fact, I’d wager you’d encounter a fair number of people along the way that would actually suggest you were a mistyped ENFJ. <--From what I’ve gathered, this isn’t a common experience for you. iow, when people confront you in order to build a case against the ENTP type…they most often want it replaced with ENFP as opposed to ENFJ right? So, aside from what appears to be your natural ‘NF as fuck’ aura…why ENFP? What else might make you seem quite specifically ENFPish?


Since the seemingly high levels of Fe coming out of you can attributed to actual high levels of actually authentic Fe and not…

Aaaaand that'd be me.

…the stuff purchased from out of the back of a windowless, 1970's van parked underneath the freeway every other Tuesday like so-first ENFPs do...

Haha skylights! I didn’t have you in mind when I typed that so I love that you caught it. Also, I want an archetype too…but if it’s going to be some messed-up witch destroyer of happy thoughts kind of thing…please send that to me privately. If, however, it’s something totally cool…to where people will be all like ‘I totally think Starry is totally cool now…’ go ahead and put that into your thread.



Great One, with Fe accounted for…sx makes sense. Not sx/sp in a million years…but I don’t see a heck of a lot of people arguing over variant-auxs haha. But you are not…and are subsequently not allowed to list your type as ENTP 6w7 sx.

You are and will forever be an ENTP 7w6 sx [eta: 7 sx with an inactive or phobic 6 wing]

Naranjo's brief profile of Enneagram 7 with sexual variant dominance

SX-7 - Heavenly. Glutton for things of the higher world. Dreamer. Passion to imagine something better than [stark] reality, to embellish reality. Looking at all things with optimism of someone who's in love. Too enthusiastic. NN to go for the sweetness of the imagined over ordinary reality. Need to fantasize. Rose-colored spectacles. Oral optimistic character (I think this was a Freudian reference). "I'm OK, You're OK."

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

Yes, I look like an NF in real life and don't really look that NTish. In fact, many believe me to be a mistyped ENFP. I think it's because I'm a 6 and I often reach outside myself to solve problems because I don't trust myself enough solve them. This in turn looks a lot like I'm using Te to solve problems by "consulting the experts" per say, and makes me look more ENFP. Also I don't look like a classic thinker on the outside and look very much like a feeler from first glance. After all, I'm somewhat kind, warm, understanding, and sensitive as well. In addition, I also am starting to believe that I may be an sx dom ENTP as well and let's get serious for a second....most ENTP's that I know are sx last and if you get really luckily you might find an sx second ENTP. When comparing the classic ENTP's level of sx to mine, it's like comparing a 25 year old mother who just had a new born's full and lactating breast to an old woman's breast that squeezes her breast and just white powder comes out (almost like sqeezing an empty powder bottle of Johnson and Johnson's). This is probably why I look more ENFP on the outside.

EDIT: Also, yes, I might be in a tertiary loop.

 

[Evo]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

Yes, I look like an NF in real life and don't really look that NTish. In fact, many believe me to be a mistyped ENFP. I think it's because I'm a 6 and I often reach outside myself to solve problems because I don't trust myself enough solve them. This in turn looks a lot like I'm using Te to solve problems by "consulting the experts" per say, and makes me look more ENFP. Also I don't look like a classic thinker on the outside and look very much like a feeler from first glance. After all, I'm somewhat kind, warm, understanding, and sensitive as well. In addition, I also am starting to believe that I may be an sx dom ENTP as well and let's get serious for a second....most ENTP's that I know are sx last and if you get really luckily you might find an sx second ENTP. When comparing the classic ENTP's level of sx to mine, it's like comparing a 25 year old mother who just had a new born's full and lactating breast to an old woman's breast that squeezes her breast and just white powder comes out (almost like sqeezing an empty powder bottle of Johnson and Johnson's). This is probably why I look more ENFP on the outside.

EDIT: Also, yes, I might be in a tertiary loop.

Maybe 6's just look like ENFP's.

I'm starting to think this is why so many ppl think I'M AN ENFP on here... and I'm not. I'm and entj! gah!

My thinkerness just doesn't come out. I've got a lot of Ni going on cause I was very alone as a kid. I think that's what shows.

I guess it's because I use words like "thinkerness"... I guess only NF's are allowed to do that?

 

[skylights]

I think that 6 tends to make us all look a little more ISFJ

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]

Yes, I look like an NF in real life and don't really look that NTish. In fact, many believe me to be a mistyped ENFP. I think it's because I'm a 6 and I often reach outside myself to solve problems because I don't trust myself enough solve them. This in turn looks a lot like I'm using Te to solve problems by "consulting the experts" per say, and makes me look more ENFP. Also I don't look like a classic thinker on the outside and look very much like a feeler from first glance. After all, I'm somewhat kind, warm, understanding, and sensitive as well. In addition, I also am starting to believe that I may be an sx dom ENTP as well and let's get serious for a second....most ENTP's that I know are sx last and if you get really luckily you might find an sx second ENTP.

Great One... did you read my post thoughtfully as well as in its entirety? haha.
Here's a quick synopsis I've prepared hitting the main points I had hoped you'd take away from what I wrote but...going off your response...doesn't quite appear you did:

1.) You are an ENTP '4 reelz'

2.) The reason why so many people believe you are ENFP is because the order of your function usage is not Intuition > Thinking but rather Intuition > Feeling <--And it doesn't matter that that Feeling is Fe as opposed to Fi. What matters is that it is Feeling period. If you are an extrovert that leads with Intuition followed by Feeling...you are going to vibe like an ENFP. A subsequent reason you seem 'ENFPie' is due to the fact you are a 7w6.

Here's a quote by me from one of your "Type Great One" threads soon after your arrival here on 7-9-2012:

...so anyway fwiw Great One...I think you are an ENTP and an e7.

When I saw your function scores (the ones you posted in this thread above)...I believe the only reason I felt confident you were ENTP as opposed ENFP was merely because...if you were to switch your Fe and Fi scores around...you and I would basically share the exact same function order/usage/results I admit that freely. Since, however, I'm currently on the market for a new avatar...what I thought I'd do instead was swap my Fi and Fe around...and start using this...

My point is...is I have an advantage at being able to recognize you as ENTP and even still...once variants came into play I needed to be certain due to how unbelievably indistinguishable an 'Ne>Fe ENTP' can be from an 'Ne>Fi ENFP' that is specifically so-first (so/sx). Capisci? The only way you could be an sx-dom was if you were an ENTP. Which brings me to number 3 in the synopsis...

3.) You are ENTP sx. The reason you are 7w6 sx instead of 6w7 sx is this:

7w6 sx - often escape their fears and negative emotions by becoming 'addicted' to day-dreaming and subsequently replacing bad thoughts with happy, optimistic thoughts...(fantasizes about harmonious romantic relationships...or for you some you could say they 'think about sex a lot'.)

6w7 sx - often escape their fears and negative emotions by becoming fearless. <--This state of fearlessness is achieved by the individual's perception that they are highly sexually desirable and wield a good deal of power and control because of it.

7w6 sx - focuses on how *magically wonderful* the romantic other is.

6w7 sx - focuses on the feelings of strength achieved via desirability of self.

7w6 sx - 'They are sexy.'

6w7 sx - 'l am sexy.'


yes, there will be some overlap...but ummm...

When comparing the classic ENTP's level of sx to mine, it's like comparing a 25 year old mother who just had a new born's full and lactating breast to an old woman's breast that squeezes her breast and just white powder comes out (almost like sqeezing an empty powder bottle of Johnson and Johnson's). This is probably why I look more ENFP on the outside.

sick man.

 

[Evo]

I think that 6 tends to make us all look a little more ISFJ

Yea I agree with this as well. In general being a six especially phobic, can make one look like someone with developed Fe. Because we don't want to piss off ppl. Then add sx in the mix an I think that adds more of this(at least not the ppl they like)

I tend to not want to specifically piss off new ppl I don't know (like on here) or with the ppl that I consider very close. But if I don't care for you and I know you a little...that's when I act least like a 6 an more like a entj. Kind of all or nothing.

 

[Starry]

Yea I agree with this as well. In general being a six especially phobic, can make one look like someone with developed Fe. Because we don't want to piss off ppl. Then add sx in the mix an I think that adds more of this(at least not the ppl they like)

Hello Inari Love, a part of me doesn't want to interrupt since...if what you are looking for is a meaningful response that will actually make sense to a wide audience...you originally quoted the best person to provide that for you. But I became curious as to which universe you were speaking of in where sx-doms 'hold-back' in order to not piss-off people...including their intimates haha! [And I'm especially interested in the universe that is populated by e6 sx people that behave in this perpetually harmonious way.]

Much like the social variant can provide an individual with an overall sense of having 'developed Fe'...the sexual variant can make an individual seem 'Fi-y.' <--Now, once we start discussing the e6 sx...you basically want to multiple the second part of the above sentence by 1,000 [I should say that I do know some people that can immediately recognize the 'differing' expression of Fe in the e6 sx. But for the most part I see a lot of Fe doms & aux assume they are Fi or are repeatedly told they are Fi by other members. As an example, I thought an eNFJ/INFJ e6 sx family member was an ENFP until I was finally able to get her interested enough in personality theory that she would take tests and talk to me about her experiences concerning these things.]

phobia, sp - often have a 'don't rock the boat' attitude. Fe, so - seek harmony and will often avoid conflict even in instances where it would be appropriate to engage for the sake of harmony. And Fi, sx - these folks...of course they want harmony as well as it is a deep-seeded, essential human need...but they want authenticity above harmony or authenticity first. iow, the harmony is not meaningful unless it is authentic and subsequently they will push a conflict if that makes sense. e6 counterphobia will push conflict for the same reasons...and for all other kinds of reasons as well haha.

Anyway, I personally have never met a sexual-dom that will [naturally as part of their character] avoid conflict if there is meaning in it for them. I think it can confuse people as well...as it is often a 'loving act.' They can't stand side-stepping issues and want them dealt with so the relationship can move forward.

 

[Lady_X]

yeah sxness can be aggressive.

 

[Evo]

Hello Inari Love, a part of me doesn't want to interrupt since...if what you are looking for is a meaningful response that will actually make sense to a wide audience...you originally quoted the best person to provide that for you. But I became curious as to which universe you were speaking of in where sx-doms 'hold-back' in order to not piss-off people...including their intimates haha! [And I'm especially interested in the universe that is populated by e6 sx people that behave in this perpetually harmonious way.]

Much like the social variant can provide an individual with an overall sense of having 'developed Fe'...the sexual variant can make an individual seem 'Fi-y.' <--Now, once we start discussing the e6 sx...you basically want to multiple the second part of the above sentence by 1,000 [I should say that I do know some people that can immediately recognize the 'differing' expression of Fe in the e6 sx. But for the most part I see a lot of Fe doms & aux assume they are Fi or are repeatedly told they are Fi by other members. As an example, I thought an eNFJ/INFJ e6 sx family member was an ENFP until I was finally able to get her interested enough in personality theory that she would take tests and talk to me about her experiences concerning these things.]

phobia, sp - often have a 'don't rock the boat' attitude. Fe, so - seek harmony and will often avoid conflict even in instances where it would be appropriate to engage for the sake of harmony. And Fi, sx - these folks...of course they want harmony as well as it is a deep-seeded, essential human need...but they want authenticity above harmony or authenticity first. iow, the harmony is not meaningful unless it is authentic and subsequently they will push a conflict if that makes sense. e6 counterphobia will push conflict for the same reasons...and for all other kinds of reasons as well haha.

Anyway, I personally have never met a sexual-dom that will [naturally as part of their character] avoid conflict if there is meaning in it for them. I think it can confuse people as well...as it is often a 'loving act.' They can't stand side-stepping issues and want them dealt with so the relationship can move forward.

Hmm...well I could very well be wrong about that. I have only just begun to type people by thier instinctual varients. And so far only know one or two people.One's an ESFP and I thought he was an sx, but I could be wrong about that too. It seems like he wants harmony cause he's got a feeling function for auxilary...maybe he's actually so/sx. I also have not read this whole thread lmao ...I'm sure that would help. Thank you for clarifying!

Feel free to elaborate more, specifically about why Fi is similar to sx, I definately wouldn't mind.

Also, I guess I can "see through" the sx's intentions to the point where I know it's "a loving act" (if i'm interpreting what you're saying properly), so maybe that's why I considered it to be more harmonious. Cause to me, when someone wants to deal with an issue head on, so we can move foward with the relationship...that's them really catering to me and being harmonious with me. (personally) I know others don't care for that blunt manner, so that's me mixing up other's Fe with my Te. sorrys :/

 

[skylights]

Just wanted to throw in, I believe one of my coworkers is an ENFJ 6w7 sx-first (sx/so, probably), and she is very confrontational - sort of. Her bark is much worse than her bite! It's interesting because she's Fe-dom and very NF but her energy is so outwardly intense. She is definitely counterphobic.

 

[Starry]

One's an ESFP and I thought he was an sx… It seems like he wants harmony…

Well, not that there’s anything to be gained from this information…but I’ll still say… One of the most emotionally volatile, forceful, vengeful, hostile people I have ever known was an ESFP 8w9 sx. And, you know, I think a lot of what she presented with was truly beyond her control…but at the same time…she had a [critically important imo] socio-political cause she was fighting for 24/7 and it was clear she just didn’t give a damn how she came across as long as she was being heard. The absolute last thing she wanted was for people to get all ‘group-huggy’ and ‘drum-circlely’ <--which, I imagine, stems from an awareness of how things sorta stop getting done once people are allowed to get cozy. I’m biased here haha! But there hasn't been anything in my experience that would lead me to believe there’s not a correlation between ‘group harmony’…and a whole lotta self-important, ego-inflating, I-love-to-listen-to-myself-talk-while-simultaneously-convincing-myself-and-others-I’m-actually-making-a-difference…kind of talk as far as issues are concerned. And so very little by way of action. She was attempting to prevent harmony is what I’m saying and yes, I attribute this to her being an sx-dom.

Also, I guess I can "see through" the sx's intentions to the point where I know it's "a loving act" (if i'm interpreting what you're saying properly), so maybe that's why I considered it to be more harmonious. Cause to me, when someone wants to deal with an issue head on, so we can move foward with the relationship...that's them really catering to me and being harmonious with me. (personally) I know others don't care for that blunt manner, so that's me mixing up other's Fe with my Te. sorrys :/

I’m not exactly sure if we are talking about the same things. What I gathered from your original statements…was you were equating phobic e6ness with possessing an aura of having ‘developed Fe’…going on to say that this was evidenced by the desire to ‘not piss people off’ <--which honestly may be true idk. There’s something that doesn’t totally flow right for me with regards to that but idk. What surprised me was when you suggested that phobic e6ness and this desire to ‘not piss people off’ was seemingly magnified by sexual dominance…and while I believe I caught a glimpse into your reasoning - and if I did it makes sense to me this notion you had. But the reality of sx is the opposite. And since it wasn't all that long ago I was in the same position you are today...I feel happy to have an opportunity to share with you that of the 3 variants...sx is by far the most assertive/aggressive/confrontational.

The quoted paragraph above, I feel somewhat compelled to clarify by saying that for the most part when an sx-dom is pushing a conflict…there’s meaning in it for them. And when there’s meaning in it we are more challenged to regulate our intensity to achieve the degrees we have learned via experience are best tolerated by our sp & so brethren. Often times we succeed and are heard. Often times we fail and scare people. Or piss them off even more…or… I feel confident saying that in the majority of cases the good intentions are most definitely there. Still, pushing the conflict is probably not going to look like “Honey, because I treasure you and what we have together more than anything…I have a ‘relationship challenge’ I would like to discuss with you using I-language as opposed to you-language.” Even the most socially-evolved of sx-doms…even the sx-doms on the harmonic points of the enneagram (2,7,9)…can take what was intended to be an intervention and turn it into what is or is at least experienced as a full-blown direct confrontation. And oddly, the whole thing about ‘good intentions’ gets lost in the mix. I believe part of what you may be saying above is 'it's all relative' and if so, I do agree. And if you have a truly good-non-shithead sx-dom in your life…cutting them some slack on ‘confrontation presentation’ by remaining mindful of the intention behind it is good thing.

I was in a workshop with the ESFP I mentioned above where she was literally terrorizing the entire group with her displays. I, of course, wasn’t entirely aware of this fact as nothing from her registered as anything significant or threatening to me so I continued to not-pay-attention-to-anything-around-me-but-rather-enjoy-my-own-thoughts-in-my-own-head like I always do. But I tuned back-in when at one point she stood-up and threw her crocheting (haha) onto the floor in anger and omg…the way everyone in the group was treating her…right after they grabbed their pitchforks and torches…for the ‘crocheting incident’ as it was from that point forward forever known - Please. You would have thought from people's reactions she had murdered someone right there in front of them. And that irritated me. None of her sexual-dominance could put the slightest dent into my Ne-dominance. But people’s self-righteous reactions to her did. It’s all relative though right?

It seems like he wants harmony…cause he's got a feeling function for auxilary...

Feeling in the dom or aux position doesn’t automatically create an individual that will seek harmony over conflict…or harmony at all for that matter.

 

[Evo]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], thank u. You have clarified what i meant to say...that its all relative. And now yes i do regret saying that sx doms multiply the amount of Fe "given off" whether they actually have Fe developed doesnt matter. I hesitated when i first wrote that too...lol..reflecting on things now i realize i barely know any sx doms..and in reflecting on the particular esfp i was talking about...lmao it seems like the complete opposite is true for him. He is more aggresive and willing to piss people off that HE DOES KNOW. Gah yea i take that back.lol However the thing about 6s is true for really phobic ones..the only problem is that 6s r crazy...they r not just purely phobic or purely counter phobic....but i feel like if theyre really close with someone (which is hard cause they have trust isues) then they try not to rebel against them

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], thank u. You have clarified what i meant to say...that its all relative. And now yes i do regret saying that sx doms multiply the amount of Fe "given off" whether they actually have Fe developed doesnt matter. I hesitated when i first wrote that too...lol..reflecting on things now i realize i barely know any sx doms... Gah yea i take that back.lol

Omgoodness...please do not regret or feel the desire to take back a single thing! This is how I learned and it would really embarrass me if you and others did not learn in the same way. There are far too many things that cause me to stand-out in a not cool kind of way and I'd surely appreciate this not being one of those ways as well.

...and in reflecting on the particular esfp i was talking about...lmao it seems like the complete opposite is true for him. He is more aggresive and willing to piss people off that HE DOES KNOW.

Perhaps this gentleman is sx. But Fi in FPs can certainly cause this kind of behavior as well. I would say all of us...although I have learned it is best to say 'most of us'...are connected to 2, 7, 9 which has been named 'The Positive Outlook Group.' I imagine it is confusing for others because it certainly appears we are striving for interpersonal and/or group harmony...as our behavior is precisely what you would expect to see out of an individual if he/she was attempting to achieve something along those lines. But what we are actually doing is far more self-centered.

Here's a brief description from the Enneagram Institute:

The Positive Outlook Group is composed of types Nine, Two, and Seven. All three respond to conflict and difficulty by adopting, as much as possible, a “positive attitude,” reframing disappointment in some positive way. They want to emphasize the uplifting aspects of life and to look at the bright side of things. These types are morale-builders who enjoy helping other people feel good because they want to stay feeling good themselves.

Since ultimately, we aren't seeking harmony for harmony's sake, we have no problem flipping-out on people and becoming aggressive when the situation legitimately or delusionally calls for it. This Fi-fueled treat is always a fun surprise for others.

However the thing about 6s is true for really phobic ones..the only problem is that 6s r crazy...they r not just purely phobic or purely counter phobic....but i feel like if theyre really close with someone (which is hard cause they have trust isues) then they try not to rebel against them.

Umm...If I had to type my large family as a whole it would be 6w5cp...and in this way I, myself, am very e6ish.
About once every other week I have someone say a similiar thing to me... that there is no such thing as a purely phobic or purely cp e6...and while I believe this to be true in the majority of cases...I know e6s that are purely counterphobic and I know them because we share the same genes. This is not to say that these family members are never cheerful, agreeable, generous, kind, loving etc. What I am saying is that...these family members never enter into states of fear. They are that confident in their abilities to handle whatever comes their way. Heck, my father is this way and he is e5 with merely a counterphobic wing. [I'm starting to wonder if people are mistaking 'counterphobia' for merely some kind of combative behavior? So like 'oh look, they are being mean now so they are in the grip of counterphobia' and 'oh look, now they are calm so I bet they are all afraid of stuff again.' Ah no. Becoming demonstratively fierce is just one way of remaining fearless. Counterphobics employ all kinds of strategies to 'maintain' this state...but alright.] The point I'm actually trying to make is regardless of where they are on the phobia-counterphobia spectrum...e6s...unless they are highly aware and evolved (and many are...many of them are on this site)...test their relationships. Counterphobics...they just come right out and test. Phobics that are not aware...trick themselves into believing they are not testing their relationships...all while testing their relationships.

 

[Lady_X]

lots of interesting posts there starry! I'm a 729 also and like harmony n stuffs but the people close to me know that i'm not in any way conflict avoidant...

my bf is sp/sx and i'm sx/sp and i get upset with him for being passive aggressive and he gets upset with me for being aggressive aggressive ha

 

[Evo]

Omgoodness...please do not regret or feel the desire to take back a single thing! This is how I learned and it would really embarrass me if you and others did not learn in the same way. There are far too many things that cause me to stand-out in a not cool kind of way and I'd surely appreciate this not being one of those ways as well.



Perhaps this gentleman is sx. But Fi in FPs can certainly cause this kind of behavior as well. I would say all of us...although I have learned it is best to say 'most of us'...are connected to 2, 7, 9 which has been named 'The Positive Outlook Group.' I imagine it is confusing for others because it certainly appears we are striving for interpersonal and/or group harmony...as our behavior is precisely what you would expect to see out of an individual if he/she was attempting to achieve something along those lines. But what we are actually doing is far more self-centered.

Here's a brief description from the Enneagram Institute:



Since ultimately, we aren't seeking harmony for harmony's sake, we have no problem flipping-out on people and becoming aggressive when the situation legitimately or delusionally calls for it. This Fi-fueled treat is always a fun surprise for others.




Umm...If I had to type my large family as a whole it would be 6w5cp...and in this way I, myself, am very e6ish.
About once every other week I have someone say a similiar thing to me... that there is no such thing as a purely phobic or purely cp e6...and while I believe this to be true in the majority of cases...I know e6s that are purely counterphobic and I know them because we share the same genes. This is not to say that these family members are never cheerful, agreeable, generous, kind, loving etc. What I am saying is that...these family members never enter into states of fear. They are that confident in their abilities to handle whatever comes their way. Heck, my father is this way and he is e5 with merely a counterphobic wing. [I'm starting to wonder if people are mistaking 'counterphobia' for merely some kind of combative behavior? So like 'oh look, they are being mean now so they are in the grip of counterphobia' and 'oh look, now they are calm so I bet they are all afraid of stuff again.' Ah no. Becoming demonstratively fierce is just one way of remaining fearless. Counterphobics employ all kinds of strategies to 'maintain' this state...but alright.] The point I'm actually trying to make is regardless of where they are on the phobia-counterphobia spectrum...e6s...unless they are highly aware and evolved (and many are...many of them are on this site)...test their relationships. Counterphobics...they just come right out and test. Phobics that are not aware...trick themselves into believing they are not testing their relationships...all while testing their relationships.

Hmm, well I'm not sure if I completely agree with even the most counterphobic person there is on the scale, not even entering a state of fear. IMO all sixes have fears. I was counterphobic all the way throughout the past 20 + years of my life. But I was living in fear. I believe it's on such a subconcious level that the cp6 doesn't even look at themselves that way, nor do others. Because they really don't believe they're afraid. I have just woken up to my phobic side within the past year or two. And it's been pretty life shattering lmao. I'm afraid of everything, things I just didn't even know I feared. That's just my opinion though. It may very well be different for other 6's I guess. But I'm still always gonna argue that shit gets repressed in the subconcious and may never come out. Counterphobic imo is all an act. Trying to protect the poor soul inside.

I don't think that every cp is merely combative. I would say more rebellious. Which could lead to many behaviors not just combative.

You make a good point, but I want more What's a good example of a cp just coming right out and testing and a phobic testing but not knowing?

lots of interesting posts there starry! I'm a 729 also and like harmony n stuffs but the people close to me know that i'm not in any way conflict avoidant...

my bf is sp/sx and i'm sx/sp and i get upset with him for being passive aggressive and he gets upset with me for being aggressive aggressive ha

That is so interesting!