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  1. #211
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think that 6 tends to make us all look a little more ISFJ
    Yea I agree with this as well. In general being a six especially phobic, can make one look like someone with developed Fe. Because we don't want to piss off ppl. Then add sx in the mix an I think that adds more of this(at least not the ppl they like)

    I tend to not want to specifically piss off new ppl I don't know (like on here) or with the ppl that I consider very close. But if I don't care for you and I know you a little...that's when I act least like a 6 an more like a entj. Kind of all or nothing.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  2. #212
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Yea I agree with this as well. In general being a six especially phobic, can make one look like someone with developed Fe. Because we don't want to piss off ppl. Then add sx in the mix an I think that adds more of this(at least not the ppl they like)
    Hello Inari Love, a part of me doesn't want to interrupt since...if what you are looking for is a meaningful response that will actually make sense to a wide audience...you originally quoted the best person to provide that for you. But I became curious as to which universe you were speaking of in where sx-doms 'hold-back' in order to not piss-off people...including their intimates haha! [And I'm especially interested in the universe that is populated by e6 sx people that behave in this perpetually harmonious way.]

    Much like the social variant can provide an individual with an overall sense of having 'developed Fe'...the sexual variant can make an individual seem 'Fi-y.' <--Now, once we start discussing the e6 sx...you basically want to multiple the second part of the above sentence by 1,000 [I should say that I do know some people that can immediately recognize the 'differing' expression of Fe in the e6 sx. But for the most part I see a lot of Fe doms & aux assume they are Fi or are repeatedly told they are Fi by other members. As an example, I thought an eNFJ/INFJ e6 sx family member was an ENFP until I was finally able to get her interested enough in personality theory that she would take tests and talk to me about her experiences concerning these things.]

    phobia, sp - often have a 'don't rock the boat' attitude. Fe, so - seek harmony and will often avoid conflict even in instances where it would be appropriate to engage for the sake of harmony. And Fi, sx - these folks...of course they want harmony as well as it is a deep-seeded, essential human need...but they want authenticity above harmony or authenticity first. iow, the harmony is not meaningful unless it is authentic and subsequently they will push a conflict if that makes sense. e6 counterphobia will push conflict for the same reasons...and for all other kinds of reasons as well haha.

    Anyway, I personally have never met a sexual-dom that will [naturally as part of their character] avoid conflict if there is meaning in it for them. I think it can confuse people as well...as it is often a 'loving act.' They can't stand side-stepping issues and want them dealt with so the relationship can move forward.

  3. #213
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yeah sxness can be aggressive.
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  4. #214
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Hello Inari Love, a part of me doesn't want to interrupt since...if what you are looking for is a meaningful response that will actually make sense to a wide audience...you originally quoted the best person to provide that for you. But I became curious as to which universe you were speaking of in where sx-doms 'hold-back' in order to not piss-off people...including their intimates haha! [And I'm especially interested in the universe that is populated by e6 sx people that behave in this perpetually harmonious way.]

    Much like the social variant can provide an individual with an overall sense of having 'developed Fe'...the sexual variant can make an individual seem 'Fi-y.' <--Now, once we start discussing the e6 sx...you basically want to multiple the second part of the above sentence by 1,000 [I should say that I do know some people that can immediately recognize the 'differing' expression of Fe in the e6 sx. But for the most part I see a lot of Fe doms & aux assume they are Fi or are repeatedly told they are Fi by other members. As an example, I thought an eNFJ/INFJ e6 sx family member was an ENFP until I was finally able to get her interested enough in personality theory that she would take tests and talk to me about her experiences concerning these things.]

    phobia, sp - often have a 'don't rock the boat' attitude. Fe, so - seek harmony and will often avoid conflict even in instances where it would be appropriate to engage for the sake of harmony. And Fi, sx - these folks...of course they want harmony as well as it is a deep-seeded, essential human need...but they want authenticity above harmony or authenticity first. iow, the harmony is not meaningful unless it is authentic and subsequently they will push a conflict if that makes sense. e6 counterphobia will push conflict for the same reasons...and for all other kinds of reasons as well haha.

    Anyway, I personally have never met a sexual-dom that will [naturally as part of their character] avoid conflict if there is meaning in it for them. I think it can confuse people as well...as it is often a 'loving act.' They can't stand side-stepping issues and want them dealt with so the relationship can move forward.
    Hmm...well I could very well be wrong about that. I have only just begun to type people by thier instinctual varients. And so far only know one or two people.One's an ESFP and I thought he was an sx, but I could be wrong about that too. It seems like he wants harmony cause he's got a feeling function for auxilary...maybe he's actually so/sx. I also have not read this whole thread lmao ...I'm sure that would help. Thank you for clarifying!

    Feel free to elaborate more, specifically about why Fi is similar to sx, I definately wouldn't mind.

    Also, I guess I can "see through" the sx's intentions to the point where I know it's "a loving act" (if i'm interpreting what you're saying properly), so maybe that's why I considered it to be more harmonious. Cause to me, when someone wants to deal with an issue head on, so we can move foward with the relationship...that's them really catering to me and being harmonious with me. (personally) I know others don't care for that blunt manner, so that's me mixing up other's Fe with my Te. sorrys :/
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  5. #215
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Just wanted to throw in, I believe one of my coworkers is an ENFJ 6w7 sx-first (sx/so, probably), and she is very confrontational - sort of. Her bark is much worse than her bite! It's interesting because she's Fe-dom and very NF but her energy is so outwardly intense. She is definitely counterphobic.

  6. #216
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    One's an ESFP and I thought he was an sx… It seems like he wants harmony…
    Well, not that there’s anything to be gained from this information…but I’ll still say… One of the most emotionally volatile, forceful, vengeful, hostile people I have ever known was an ESFP 8w9 sx. And, you know, I think a lot of what she presented with was truly beyond her control…but at the same time…she had a [critically important imo] socio-political cause she was fighting for 24/7 and it was clear she just didn’t give a damn how she came across as long as she was being heard. The absolute last thing she wanted was for people to get all ‘group-huggy’ and ‘drum-circlely’ <--which, I imagine, stems from an awareness of how things sorta stop getting done once people are allowed to get cozy. I’m biased here haha! But there hasn't been anything in my experience that would lead me to believe there’s not a correlation between ‘group harmony’…and a whole lotta self-important, ego-inflating, I-love-to-listen-to-myself-talk-while-simultaneously-convincing-myself-and-others-I’m-actually-making-a-difference…kind of talk as far as issues are concerned. And so very little by way of action. She was attempting to prevent harmony is what I’m saying and yes, I attribute this to her being an sx-dom.


    Also, I guess I can "see through" the sx's intentions to the point where I know it's "a loving act" (if i'm interpreting what you're saying properly), so maybe that's why I considered it to be more harmonious. Cause to me, when someone wants to deal with an issue head on, so we can move foward with the relationship...that's them really catering to me and being harmonious with me. (personally) I know others don't care for that blunt manner, so that's me mixing up other's Fe with my Te. sorrys :/
    I’m not exactly sure if we are talking about the same things. What I gathered from your original statements…was you were equating phobic e6ness with possessing an aura of having ‘developed Fe’…going on to say that this was evidenced by the desire to ‘not piss people off’ <--which honestly may be true idk. There’s something that doesn’t totally flow right for me with regards to that but idk. What surprised me was when you suggested that phobic e6ness and this desire to ‘not piss people off’ was seemingly magnified by sexual dominance…and while I believe I caught a glimpse into your reasoning - and if I did it makes sense to me this notion you had. But the reality of sx is the opposite. And since it wasn't all that long ago I was in the same position you are today...I feel happy to have an opportunity to share with you that of the 3 variants...sx is by far the most assertive/aggressive/confrontational.

    The quoted paragraph above, I feel somewhat compelled to clarify by saying that for the most part when an sx-dom is pushing a conflict…there’s meaning in it for them. And when there’s meaning in it we are more challenged to regulate our intensity to achieve the degrees we have learned via experience are best tolerated by our sp & so brethren. Often times we succeed and are heard. Often times we fail and scare people. Or piss them off even more…or… I feel confident saying that in the majority of cases the good intentions are most definitely there. Still, pushing the conflict is probably not going to look like “Honey, because I treasure you and what we have together more than anything…I have a ‘relationship challenge’ I would like to discuss with you using I-language as opposed to you-language.” Even the most socially-evolved of sx-doms…even the sx-doms on the harmonic points of the enneagram (2,7,9)…can take what was intended to be an intervention and turn it into what is or is at least experienced as a full-blown direct confrontation. And oddly, the whole thing about ‘good intentions’ gets lost in the mix. I believe part of what you may be saying above is 'it's all relative' and if so, I do agree. And if you have a truly good-non-shithead sx-dom in your life…cutting them some slack on ‘confrontation presentation’ by remaining mindful of the intention behind it is good thing.

    I was in a workshop with the ESFP I mentioned above where she was literally terrorizing the entire group with her displays. I, of course, wasn’t entirely aware of this fact as nothing from her registered as anything significant or threatening to me so I continued to not-pay-attention-to-anything-around-me-but-rather-enjoy-my-own-thoughts-in-my-own-head like I always do. But I tuned back-in when at one point she stood-up and threw her crocheting (haha) onto the floor in anger and omg…the way everyone in the group was treating her…right after they grabbed their pitchforks and torches…for the ‘crocheting incident’ as it was from that point forward forever known - Please. You would have thought from people's reactions she had murdered someone right there in front of them. And that irritated me. None of her sexual-dominance could put the slightest dent into my Ne-dominance. But people’s self-righteous reactions to her did. It’s all relative though right?


    It seems like he wants harmony…cause he's got a feeling function for auxilary...
    Feeling in the dom or aux position doesn’t automatically create an individual that will seek harmony over conflict…or harmony at all for that matter.

  7. #217
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    @Starry, thank u. You have clarified what i meant to say...that its all relative. And now yes i do regret saying that sx doms multiply the amount of Fe "given off" whether they actually have Fe developed doesnt matter. I hesitated when i first wrote that too...lol..reflecting on things now i realize i barely know any sx doms..and in reflecting on the particular esfp i was talking about...lmao it seems like the complete opposite is true for him. He is more aggresive and willing to piss people off that HE DOES KNOW. Gah yea i take that back.lol However the thing about 6s is true for really phobic ones..the only problem is that 6s r crazy...they r not just purely phobic or purely counter phobic....but i feel like if theyre really close with someone (which is hard cause they have trust isues) then they try not to rebel against them

  8. #218
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    @Starry, thank u. You have clarified what i meant to say...that its all relative. And now yes i do regret saying that sx doms multiply the amount of Fe "given off" whether they actually have Fe developed doesnt matter. I hesitated when i first wrote that too...lol..reflecting on things now i realize i barely know any sx doms... Gah yea i take that back.lol
    Omgoodness...please do not regret or feel the desire to take back a single thing! This is how I learned and it would really embarrass me if you and others did not learn in the same way. There are far too many things that cause me to stand-out in a not cool kind of way and I'd surely appreciate this not being one of those ways as well.

    ...and in reflecting on the particular esfp i was talking about...lmao it seems like the complete opposite is true for him. He is more aggresive and willing to piss people off that HE DOES KNOW.
    Perhaps this gentleman is sx. But Fi in FPs can certainly cause this kind of behavior as well. I would say all of us...although I have learned it is best to say 'most of us'...are connected to 2, 7, 9 which has been named 'The Positive Outlook Group.' I imagine it is confusing for others because it certainly appears we are striving for interpersonal and/or group harmony...as our behavior is precisely what you would expect to see out of an individual if he/she was attempting to achieve something along those lines. But what we are actually doing is far more self-centered.

    Here's a brief description from the Enneagram Institute:

    The Positive Outlook Group is composed of types Nine, Two, and Seven. All three respond to conflict and difficulty by adopting, as much as possible, a “positive attitude,” reframing disappointment in some positive way. They want to emphasize the uplifting aspects of life and to look at the bright side of things. These types are morale-builders who enjoy helping other people feel good because they want to stay feeling good themselves.
    Since ultimately, we aren't seeking harmony for harmony's sake, we have no problem flipping-out on people and becoming aggressive when the situation legitimately or delusionally calls for it. This Fi-fueled treat is always a fun surprise for others.


    However the thing about 6s is true for really phobic ones..the only problem is that 6s r crazy...they r not just purely phobic or purely counter phobic....but i feel like if theyre really close with someone (which is hard cause they have trust isues) then they try not to rebel against them.
    Umm...If I had to type my large family as a whole it would be 6w5cp...and in this way I, myself, am very e6ish.
    About once every other week I have someone say a similiar thing to me... that there is no such thing as a purely phobic or purely cp e6...and while I believe this to be true in the majority of cases...I know e6s that are purely counterphobic and I know them because we share the same genes. This is not to say that these family members are never cheerful, agreeable, generous, kind, loving etc. What I am saying is that...these family members never enter into states of fear. They are that confident in their abilities to handle whatever comes their way. Heck, my father is this way and he is e5 with merely a counterphobic wing. [I'm starting to wonder if people are mistaking 'counterphobia' for merely some kind of combative behavior? So like 'oh look, they are being mean now so they are in the grip of counterphobia' and 'oh look, now they are calm so I bet they are all afraid of stuff again.' Ah no. Becoming demonstratively fierce is just one way of remaining fearless. Counterphobics employ all kinds of strategies to 'maintain' this state...but alright.] The point I'm actually trying to make is regardless of where they are on the phobia-counterphobia spectrum...e6s...unless they are highly aware and evolved (and many are...many of them are on this site)...test their relationships. Counterphobics...they just come right out and test. Phobics that are not aware...trick themselves into believing they are not testing their relationships...all while testing their relationships.

  9. #219
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    lots of interesting posts there starry! I'm a 729 also and like harmony n stuffs but the people close to me know that i'm not in any way conflict avoidant...

    my bf is sp/sx and i'm sx/sp and i get upset with him for being passive aggressive and he gets upset with me for being aggressive aggressive ha
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  10. #220
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Omgoodness...please do not regret or feel the desire to take back a single thing! This is how I learned and it would really embarrass me if you and others did not learn in the same way. There are far too many things that cause me to stand-out in a not cool kind of way and I'd surely appreciate this not being one of those ways as well.



    Perhaps this gentleman is sx. But Fi in FPs can certainly cause this kind of behavior as well. I would say all of us...although I have learned it is best to say 'most of us'...are connected to 2, 7, 9 which has been named 'The Positive Outlook Group.' I imagine it is confusing for others because it certainly appears we are striving for interpersonal and/or group harmony...as our behavior is precisely what you would expect to see out of an individual if he/she was attempting to achieve something along those lines. But what we are actually doing is far more self-centered.

    Here's a brief description from the Enneagram Institute:



    Since ultimately, we aren't seeking harmony for harmony's sake, we have no problem flipping-out on people and becoming aggressive when the situation legitimately or delusionally calls for it. This Fi-fueled treat is always a fun surprise for others.




    Umm...If I had to type my large family as a whole it would be 6w5cp...and in this way I, myself, am very e6ish.
    About once every other week I have someone say a similiar thing to me... that there is no such thing as a purely phobic or purely cp e6...and while I believe this to be true in the majority of cases...I know e6s that are purely counterphobic and I know them because we share the same genes. This is not to say that these family members are never cheerful, agreeable, generous, kind, loving etc. What I am saying is that...these family members never enter into states of fear. They are that confident in their abilities to handle whatever comes their way. Heck, my father is this way and he is e5 with merely a counterphobic wing. [I'm starting to wonder if people are mistaking 'counterphobia' for merely some kind of combative behavior? So like 'oh look, they are being mean now so they are in the grip of counterphobia' and 'oh look, now they are calm so I bet they are all afraid of stuff again.' Ah no. Becoming demonstratively fierce is just one way of remaining fearless. Counterphobics employ all kinds of strategies to 'maintain' this state...but alright.] The point I'm actually trying to make is regardless of where they are on the phobia-counterphobia spectrum...e6s...unless they are highly aware and evolved (and many are...many of them are on this site)...test their relationships. Counterphobics...they just come right out and test. Phobics that are not aware...trick themselves into believing they are not testing their relationships...all while testing their relationships.
    Hmm, well I'm not sure if I completely agree with even the most counterphobic person there is on the scale, not even entering a state of fear. IMO all sixes have fears. I was counterphobic all the way throughout the past 20 + years of my life. But I was living in fear. I believe it's on such a subconcious level that the cp6 doesn't even look at themselves that way, nor do others. Because they really don't believe they're afraid. I have just woken up to my phobic side within the past year or two. And it's been pretty life shattering lmao. I'm afraid of everything, things I just didn't even know I feared. That's just my opinion though. It may very well be different for other 6's I guess. But I'm still always gonna argue that shit gets repressed in the subconcious and may never come out. Counterphobic imo is all an act. Trying to protect the poor soul inside.

    I don't think that every cp is merely combative. I would say more rebellious. Which could lead to many behaviors not just combative.

    You make a good point, but I want more What's a good example of a cp just coming right out and testing and a phobic testing but not knowing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    lots of interesting posts there starry! I'm a 729 also and like harmony n stuffs but the people close to me know that i'm not in any way conflict avoidant...

    my bf is sp/sx and i'm sx/sp and i get upset with him for being passive aggressive and he gets upset with me for being aggressive aggressive ha
    That is so interesting!
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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