[sp] You know you're self preservation when

[Viridian]

I agree with those who think the sp=selfish stereotype is inaccurate (not sure I'm sp, just pointing it out), though I do think Elfboy was being kind of tongue-in-cheek. Sp doms, I think, are simply more "contained" and cautious... Haku from Naruto, I believe, was an sp/sx, and he was the epitome of selflessness - ditto the title character from Amelie.

 

[Elfboy]

I agree with those who think the sp=selfish stereotype is inaccurate (not sure I'm sp, just pointing it out), though I do think Elfboy was being kind of tongue-in-cheek. Sp doms, I think, are simply more "contained" and cautious... Haku from Naruto, I believe, was an sp/sx, and he was the epitome of selflessness - ditto the title character from Amelie.

thanks bro

 

[Elfboy]

Let's rework this, I feel this isn't accurate....



Actually, when your parents die, and your first thoughts are to get quickly to business to help prepare for their funeral... whilst in private, you go through an existential crisis questioning if you will suffer the same fate as your parents... and you go into high gear survival mode... you have to keep yourself healthy, and avoid getting into accidents.



The idea of altruism doesn't puzzle you, rather you feel it is necessary for the survival and continuation of your own species, and you look towards the idea of altruism as a way to increase your own likelihood of survival in the world.



Not always stuff that is outlandish though. But you put a priority towards home, family, work, and food above going out to socialize and party.



Actually, you end up doing the right thing by notifying the police and other legal authorities that your friend died of a drug overdose. Do the right thing, even if you are standing alone.



Or you don't even mention about joining the military altogether. It's none of anybody's business why you would or wouldn't join.



Sometimes, but not all the time. Rather, you'd end up opting for the safest rank, as far away from enemy fire as possible. You'd rather voluntarily become a nurse, medic, or part of the M*A*S*H unit... or join the Peace Corps.



You wouldn't use weapons, period. Rather, you'd stay clear and far away from someone who offends you. If you need to fight, you'd do it ONLY if your life was in clear and present danger.



Getting financially stable is ONE of your top priorities.

I agree with most of these actually

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I responded to the op first, then read the thread. I realize the op wasn’t created to be dissected in itself so much as to start others adding their own, but I dissected it first because that’s what I do. I didn’t quote it to prove how it’s ‘wrong’ though (I didn’t perceive it as negatively as others in the thread seemed to), only to show how my experience/understanding of being sp is different.

- the idea of altruism (placing the needs of others before your own) is quite puzzling to you

It seems to me that if placing the needs of others before my own were puzzling to me, there’d be little need for me to be self-pres. If it weren’t an issue, I wouldn’t feel the need to create the distance in the first place.

- you're willing to do socially unacceptable things to get money and survive

I might do jobs that are socially unacceptable as long as I find them agreeable myself. For the most part I find a lot of socially acceptable jobs personally repugnant, and that’s where I see sp coming into play- my own unwillingness to do them because they may be threatening to my own sense of self.

- getting financially stable is your number 1 priority

Again, I find maintaining a sense of self is actually my number one priority. I’d rather live like a pauper feeling like I spend my time truer to my interests than have a comfortable job in which I spend most of my waking hours doing something which has nothing to do with what I want out of life.

And my own:

-you carry a book or crossword puzzle to work on- or even play solitaire on a cell phone- in situations where a stranger might strike up a conversation if you don’t look preoccupied (e.g. laundromat, train, etc). Unless it’s a context where strangers might have enough in common with you that any conversation is one that you’d likely want to be having- but you still almost always have a book or something on hand just in case.

-you hate knick-knack kind of gifts from people, or even clothes as gifts, because you like your personal space to be entirely your own (down to what you’re wearing). Every once in a while someone will get something because it explicitly reminded them of you and you’ll happen to love it (when it actually reflects YOU), but more often than not- especially for holidays or birthdays, when it isn’t about them chancing upon something that reminds them of you so much as feeling pressured to pick *something* out to express affection- it just leaves you with a pile of stuff that you’ll feel guilty for giving away.

 

[Red Herring]

It seems to me that if placing the needs of others before my own were puzzling to me, there’d be little need for me to be self-pres. If it weren’t an issue, I wouldn’t feel the need to create the distance in the first place.



I might do jobs that are socially unacceptable as long as I find them agreeable myself. For the most part I find a lot of socially acceptable jobs personally repugnant, and that’s where I see sp coming into play- my own unwillingness to do them because they may be threatening to my own sense of self.



Again, I find maintaining a sense of self is actually my number one priority. I’d rather live like a pauper feeling like I spend my time truer to my interests than have a comfortable job in which I spend most of my waking hours doing something which has nothing to do with what I want out of life.

And my own:

-you carry a book or crossword puzzle to work on- or even play solitaire on a cell phone- in situations where a stranger might strike up a conversation if you don’t look preoccupied (e.g. laundromat, train, etc). Unless it’s a context where strangers might have enough in common with you that any conversation is one that you’d likely want to be having- but you still almost always have a book or something on hand just in case.

-you hate knick-knack kind of gifts from people, or even clothes as gifts, because you like your personal space to be entirely your own (down to what you’re wearing). Every once in a while someone will get something because it explicitly reminded them of you and you’ll happen to love it (when it actually reflects YOU), but more often than not- especially for holidays or birthdays, when it isn’t about them chancing upon something that reminds them of you so much as feeling pressured to pick *something* out to express affection- it just leaves you with a pile of stuff that you’ll feel guilty for giving away.

+1 to all of the above.

The OP was obviously meant to be humorous and recognizable as such at first sight. But it seemed to be based on the supposed grain of truth that being sp means being a money obsessed selfish ass and that is obviously not the case, as others have already pointed out.

Here are a few more suggestions (some might be I or N though):

-when you have to spend a few days at a conference or a workshop and your first thought is how on earth will you be able to retire for some me-time when you are surrounded by people 24/7. Oh, the pure thought of the drain on your energy!
- You often go through what if scenarios, trying to figure out how they would affect you and how you would have to react in different cases. You are not necessarily afraid or worried, but you ca't help going through these scenarios in your head
- You are often conflicted between wanting to help another person and that sense of being used
- (if Sp/sx) You like to get close to people, but need to preserve your bubble. Groups make you uncomfortable and the best way to get to know you is 1 on 1 with a bit of patience
- Your idea of a perfect weekend involves your sofa, your laptop, a pile of books and some cookies

 

[Elfboy]

+1 to all of the above.

The OP was obviously meant to be humorous and recognizable as such at first sight. But it seemed to be based on the supposed grain of truth that being sp means being a money obsessed selfish ass and that is obviously not the case, as others have already pointed out.

Here are a few more suggestions (some might be I or N though):

-when you have to spend a few days at a conference or a workshop and your first thought is how on earth will you be able to retire for some me-time when you are surrounded by people 24/7. Oh, the pure thought of the drain on your energy!
- You often go through what if scenarios, trying to figure out how they would affect you and how you would have to react in different cases. You are not necessarily afraid or worried, but you ca't help going through these scenarios in your head
- You are often conflicted between wanting to help another person and that sense of being used
- (if Sp/sx) You like to get close to people, but need to preserve your bubble. Groups make you uncomfortable and the best way to get to know you is 1 on 1 with a bit of patience
- Your idea of a perfect weekend involves your sofa, your laptop, a pile of books and some cookies

all of these ring true with me. I think extroverts who are self preservation are less extroverted than social types (especially if they're N)

 

[CuriousFeeling]

To add onto the list...

- When you come home from work, all you want to do is just spend some time alone and get zoned out listening to music, or watching a good movie.... if someone interrupts your quiet time, you feel like you're ready to explode.

- Unlike most of the world, you aren't attached to your cellphone 24/7, rather you seldom use it or have it on.

- You are sensitive to changes in temperature in your environment... if it isn't between X-Y degrees, you are uncomfortable.

- In the "Trust Game" you do in camps and other organizations, you feel anxious that someone won't be there to catch you when you fall and have a hard time allowing yourself to just go.

- The idea of walking out on the streets alone makes you feel vulnerable.

- When you know that you are in a toxic situation with someone, you end up avoiding them.

- It feels like you constantly have your guard up, with armor all around you.

 

[Elfboy]

To add onto the list...

- When you come home from work, all you want to do is just spend some time alone and get zoned out listening to music, or watching a good movie.... if someone interrupts your quiet time, you feel like you're ready to explode.

- Unlike most of the world, you aren't attached to your cellphone 24/7, rather you seldom use it or have it on.

- You are sensitive to changes in temperature in your environment... if it isn't between X-Y degrees, you are uncomfortable.

- In the "Trust Game" you do in camps and other organizations, you feel anxious that someone won't be there to catch you when you fall and have a hard time allowing yourself to just go.

- The idea of walking out on the streets alone makes you feel vulnerable.

- When you know that you are in a toxic situation with someone, you end up avoiding them.

- It feels like you constantly have your guard up, with armor all around you.

spot on

 

[Speed Gavroche]

You don't see the necessity to work hard for win money as a problem because that comes naturally for you.

You are serious and self-contained, you are confident in your hability to not do something crasy wich could devy you from you will to gain material security.

When there's a maintenance problem, you don't procrastinate to deal with it because you instinctively deal with it.

You instinctively change your clothes when temperatures change

You ever know how to gain the maximum of safety without waste your energy, and you still seek to improve yourself

Most of your choice in life are serious, realistic and taken with personal reflection.

You requently know moments of pure calm and without any passion, and you like it.

You need more interaction with your family member than with your romantic relationships

All these things about saving energy and time are about 5, not self-preservation.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

- When you come home from work, all you want to do is just spend some time alone and get zoned out listening to music, or watching a good movie.... if someone interrupts your quiet time, you feel like you're ready to explode.

- Unlike most of the world, you aren't attached to your cellphone 24/7, rather you seldom use it or have it on.

- You are sensitive to changes in temperature in your environment... if it isn't between X-Y degrees, you are uncomfortable.

- In the "Trust Game" you do in camps and other organizations, you feel anxious that someone won't be there to catch you when you fall and have a hard time allowing yourself to just go.

- The idea of walking out on the streets alone makes you feel vulnerable.

- When you know that you are in a toxic situation with someone, you end up avoiding them.

- It feels like you constantly have your guard up, with armor all around you.[/QUOTE]

I relate to all is bloded and I'am not self-pres.

 

[Elfboy]

you know you're sp/sx when
- during your teen years, you were astonished at the utterly moronic things people would do at the expense of personal safety, comfort and health. examples include drugs, joining gangs and doing things that were illegal without any sort of plan or escape strategy
- peer pressure does not effect you at all
- people make fun of you for being high maintenance and taking good care of yourself
- you can't stand being around people who don't take care of themselves
- you find people poor hospitality distasteful and downright unacceptable
- you are offended by people who don't give you any friggin personally space
- when people say things like "a simple life is a full life" or "money isn't important" you think to yourself 'nigga you crazy'
- it is important that your work time and your leisure time seperate.
- when someone tells you to do something productive when you're relaxing you say "I am doing something productive."
- you are amazed at how people can work themselves to the point of compromising their health and not notice
- you enjoy shopping, either by yourself or with 1-3 friends who are good company
- you are polite, but you only stay stick around if the company is good and unintrusive. if they're not, you simply leave (unless you have some other obligation)
- you don't like going to sports games because you're constantly thinking "what the fuck is everyone doing?"

 

[Red Herring]

you know you're sp/sx when
- during your teen years, you were astonished at the utterly moronic things people would do at the expense of personal safety, comfort and health. examples include drugs, joining gangs and doing things that were illegal without any sort of plan or escape strategy YES
- peer pressure does not effect you at all YES (mostly)
- people make fun of you for being high maintenance and taking good care of yourself NO
- you can't stand being around people who don't take care of themselves NO (well, depends on what you mean by taking care, if you mean grooming, meh, in extreme cases maybe, if you mean stupid, careless people, yes)
- you find people poor hospitality distasteful and downright unacceptable YES
- you are offended by people who don't give you any friggin personally space YES
- when people say things like "a simple life is a full life" or "money isn't important" you think to yourself 'nigga you crazy' NO
- it is important that your work time and your leisure time seperate. NO, I like my work and the freedom to mix or seperate at will
- when someone tells you to do something productive when you're relaxing you say "I am doing something productive." YES
- you are amazed at how people can work themselves to the point of compromising their health and not notice YES
- you enjoy shopping, either by yourself or with 1-3 friends who are good company Sort of
- you are polite, but you only stay stick around if the company is good and unintrusive. if they're not, you simply leave (unless you have some other obligation) YES
- you don't like going to sports games because you're constantly thinking "what the fuck is everyone doing?" YES

.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

You don't see the necessity to work hard for win money as a problem because that comes naturally for you.

You are serious and self-contained, you are confident in your hability to not do something crasy wich could devy you from you will to gain material security.

When there's a maintenance problem, you don't procrastinate to deal with it because you instinctively deal with it.

You instinctively change your clothes when temperatures change

You ever know how to gain the maximum of safety without waste your energy, and you still seek to improve yourself

Most of your choice in life are serious, realistic and taken with personal reflection.

You requently know moments of pure calm and without any passion, and you like it.

You need more interaction with your family member than with your romantic relationships

All these things about saving energy and time are about 5, not self-preservation.

I’m questioning the bolded statement, because if it’s true then I’m not sp- and I relate far better to sp/sx descriptions I've read than any other, even those that weren't specific to e5. I don't particularly relate to any of these^, and ESPECIALLY the first one. I don't care about money anywhere near as much as I should. I have definitely made several choices that veered me away from material security, but I did it because the idea of giving something/someone influence over my willpower/opinions is thoroughly repugnant. Isn’t that sp? It sounds like the above description of sp is focusing more on physical aspects of self-preservation, but that’s not the only kind of independence a person can strive for.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Quote from a Self-pres people: "I don't make deals for the money. I do it to do it.", that's from Donald Trump, a 8w7 Sp/So. If you don't want to have a boss or to enter incompetioton for material success, that comes from 5, not from Sp, Self-pres 3s may be the most workhaoolics of the enneagram. As a 5, your Sp is more expressed by the drive to etablish a stronghold, with all the required safety and withdrawing.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

you know you're sp/sx when
- during your teen years, you were astonished at the utterly moronic things people would do at the expense of personal safety, comfort and health. examples include drugs, joining gangs and doing things that were illegal without any sort of plan or escape strategy

I actually found it extremely cool.

- peer pressure does not effect you at all

They have effects.

- people make fun of you for being high maintenance and taking good care of yourself

They make fun of me about how I suck at this and about how horribly messy and flaky I'am, I don't take good care of myself at all.

- you can't stand being around people who don't take care of themselves

Why shoumld I want that they care of themselves? I prefer that they take care about other people.

- you find people poor hospitality distasteful and downright unacceptable

I don't care at all about this.

- you are offended by people who don't give you any friggin personally space

Yes.

when people say things like "a simple life is a full life" or "money isn't important" you think to yourself 'nigga you crazy'

I actually think taht they are stimulating and truly understood how live a good life.

- it is important that your work time and your leisure time seperate.

It is important that the work time be a leisure time

- when someone tells you to do something productive when you're relaxing you say "I am doing something productive."

I simply answer "fuck off"

- you are amazed at how people can work themselves to the point of compromising their health and not notice

People are often amazed by me doing that.

- you enjoy shopping, either by yourself or with 1-3 friends who are good company

yes.

- you are polite, but you only stay stick around if the company is good and unintrusive. if they're not, you simply leave (unless you have some other obligation)

Dunno

- you don't like going to sports games because you're constantly thinking "what the fuck is everyone doing?"

??

Pfiuuuuh, I'm not Sp/Sx.

 

[wolfy]

QUOTE equals Elfboy...

you know you're sp/sx when
- during your teen years, you were astonished at the utterly moronic things people would do at the expense of personal safety, comfort and health. examples include drugs, joining gangs and doing things that were illegal without any sort of plan or escape strategy

I did drugs in my teen years. And enjoyed pushing the limits of it.

- peer pressure does not effect you at all

This is probably true. The opinions of only a few chosen people count.

- people make fun of you for being high maintenance and taking good care of
yourself

No, no way

- you can't stand being around people who don't take care of themselves

No
- you find people poor hospitality distasteful and downright unacceptable

No

- you are offended by people who don't give you any friggin personally space

Yeah!!

- when people say things like "a simple life is a full life" or "money isn't important" you think to yourself 'nigga you crazy'

No way, Jose

- it is important that your work time and your leisure time seperate.

No

- when someone tells you to do something productive when you're relaxing you say "I am doing something productive."

Yes

- you are amazed at how people can work themselves to the point of compromising their health and not notice

Yeah, I get pushing yourself though.

- you enjoy shopping, either by yourself or with 1-3 friends who are good company

No, by myself...maybe...sometimes

- you are polite, but you only stay stick around if the company is good and unintrusive. if they're not, you simply leave (unless you have some other obligation)

?

- you don't like going to sports games because you're constantly thinking "what the fuck is everyone doing?"

No

 

[King sns]

you know you're sp/sx when
- during your teen years, you were astonished at the utterly moronic things people would do at the expense of personal safety, comfort and health. examples include drugs, joining gangs and doing things that were illegal without any sort of plan or escape strategy

applies to me except "astonished" and "utterly moronic" is a bit strong.
- peer pressure does not effect you at all
truth
- people make fun of you for being high maintenance and taking good care of yourself

yes, people don't understand my reasoning behind good health. they think i'm trying to lose weight, otherwise why would I choose this as a lifestyle?
- you can't stand being around people who don't take care of themselves
no, live and let live. Though, I can say that I do enjoy being around people who DO take good care of themselves. It's a common hobby thing.
- you find people poor hospitality distasteful and downright unacceptable
No, not at all. I'd rather not be waited on.
- you are offended by people who don't give you any friggin personally space
"offended" a strong word again. "uncomfortable" would be a better word for me.
- when people say things like "a simple life is a full life" or "money isn't important" you think to yourself 'nigga you crazy' My thoughts on this topic are a bid too in depth to reduce it to that. However, money, comfort, and security is important.
- it is important that your work time and your leisure time seperate.
Kind of. I'll work and play all mixed up in one ball. I do however enjoy the 8 day work stretch to enjoy a 4 day weekend. That's my preferred method. Regarding household chores though, doesn't matter.
- when someone tells you to do something productive when you're relaxing you say "I am doing something productive." If some one told me to do something productive while I was relaxing I would tell them to fuck off.
- you are amazed at how people can work themselves to the point of compromising their health and not notice
Again, I don't focus on other people's lives that much. I'm very sensitive to this myself, though.
- you enjoy shopping, either by yourself or with 1-3 friends who are good company
Yea, shopping is usually an independent endeavor for me. (Not sure how this applies though..)
- you are polite, but you only stay stick around if the company is good and unintrusive. if they're not, you simply leave (unless you have some other obligation) Guilty.
- you don't like going to sports games because you're constantly thinking "what the fuck is everyone doing?"

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Quote from a Self-pres people: "I don't make deals for the money. I do it to do it.", that's from Donald Trump, a 8w7 Sp/So. If you don't want to have a boss or to enter incompetioton for material success, that comes from 5, not from Sp, Self-pres 3s may be the most workhaoolics of the enneagram. As a 5, your Sp is more expressed by the drive to etablish a stronghold, with all the required safety and withdrawing.

Yeah sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say, but it *sounds* like you're still trying to emphasize sp being about material security. There are avenues in which one might seek independence outside of financial/material gain, regardless of whether or not one is an e5.

from this site:

Do you tend to make sure your own needs are met and satisfied with the essentials of life (self-preservation)? Or does your attention go to being in the company of others and, if so, how many others, and/or do you need to be in service of others (social)? Or instead do you find that your ultimate expression of self is linked to the company of one significant other in an intimate and profound way, and that no matter where you are or what you are doing, you are always in search of that beloved special person (sexual)?

I mean, sp is about independence, right? Regardless of whether or not the 'needs' are material (food, shelter, etc). Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, it's just that it sounds like your saying that needing independence for 'needs' that aren't material isn't characteristic of sp (that it's e5) and I don't see why that'd be true.

 

[Speed Gavroche]

Yeah sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say, but it *sounds* like you're still trying to emphasize sp being about material security. There are avenues in which one might seek independence outside of financial/material gain, regardless of whether or not one is an e5.

from this site:


I mean, sp is about independence, right? Regardless of whether or not the 'needs' are material (food, shelter, etc). Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, it's just that it sounds like your saying that needing independence for 'needs' that aren't material isn't characteristic of sp (that it's e5) and I don't see why that'd be true.

Sp is above all about safety and material security, before being about independance. Self-pres 2 tend to be dependant, and Social 5s tend to be independant. Self-pres is security first and independance next, independance is the mean for security, not the end.

 

[cascadeco]

After glancing at all 3 of these threads, I am starting to think the instinctual stuff is rather meaningless without also factoring in the ennegram itself, and/or mbti type. I mean, I'm seriously questioning the sp-piece now, and wondering whether I'm so-dom instead because I've alway been hyper-aware of social groups even though I resent a lot of their workings (but could this not be due to Fe rather than so-dom?), even though as a 5 and as a bona-fide introvert I actually hate interacting in groups (very uncomfortable for me), and I prefer 1:1, and I crave those close, meaningful connections with people. But I don't think I have the 'intensity' drive of 1:1 interactions such as some of the sx-doms on this site, nor am I emotionally volatile, even though I have a desire for intensity of experience and newness. But I am great with money too and while I've never been obsessed with it, I also consider myself very 'responsible' when it comes to my finances, and think it would be stupid of me not to account for my future needs, in terms of having a roof over my head and an ambience that I like, and other such things.


Finally, taking care of myself and keeping myself balanced and healthy - physically, mentally, emotionally - is important to me. Prioritizing the overall health of myself. I always thought this was kinda the crux of sp-dom; but I find SpeedGavroche's limiting it to Tangible things (money, safety, etc) very, well, limiting.



In short: