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  1. #11
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    yes, but the OP didn't seem to think that you could be SP and be a decent person

    I'm nice, I help out other people on a daily basis and things of that sort... but yes, I have my personal barrier of protection that lies between the public face and what lies beneath that... I don't intend to be anyone's fool
    the point of the OP was that self preservation people choose their own needs over others in times of dire circumstance. you got that impression because all of the circumstances were severe and forced people to choose between themselves and others. I did this specifically to illlustrate the differences on a primal/instinctual level.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
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  2. #12
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Self-pres last answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    - your parents die and your first thoughts are "how am I going to survive now. how soon do I get my inheritance money so I can get back to my current lifestyle" even if you did love your parents and are sad that they're dead
    Strangely, I can relate to that. I mean, since people are dead, they are dead, you can't do anything to them. I don't see any urgency to bury them or something. Death is a sort of abstraction. The most logical thing is to care about how to organize our own survival. Not only the mine, but also of my young brother, my family environment, etc. Brutal death of other people kind of brutally remind me that I can die too. I can put others alive people's need before my own, but not the dead. If you are a solidier in a war, you must care about your own survival and your partner survival, but you must'nt let thought about dead people divert you from your mission. You can care about dead people when the fight is over and when you and your partners are secured, that's war, and the whole life is in this way.

    - the idea of altruism (placing the needs of others before your own) is quite puzzling to you
    Not at all.

    - you're willing to do socially unacceptable things to get money and survive
    Yes. I would prefer to prostitute myself for survival than a boring and bad payed job. I could also be a pimp, a dealer, or a gun seller. I've ever said that loudly and I have no shame.

    - your friend dies of a drug overdose and your first thoughts are "I need to find a way to get rid of the body so the police don't link the drugs to me" you will mourn his loss once you are out of harms way legally
    Seems the most logical thing to do. But I would want above all to inform his parents of that bad new, and that they can recovr the body.

    - when asked why you didn't join the military, your response was "well, I don't want to die" (no disrespect to people who are in the military, but it's sho as hell not something I would do)
    Yes, I have ever said that. But at the same time, I can find the concept of "dying for your country" quite romantic, and very stimulating and liberating that you are licensed to kill, while you are usually not.

    - if you are forced into the military via draft, you disert. patriotism is one thing, dying for your country is something else entirely
    I would disert because I never like to have things imposed to me, not because I'am afraid to die.

    - you would never fight someone head on unless you were cornered or had proper training in advance. if someone offends you enough for you to want to inflict harm on them, you sneak up on them and use a weapon of some sort
    I think I can try to avoid fighting if I'am not in good shape. I think I can also forget that I'am not in good shape.

    - getting financially stable is your number 1 priority
    Stability is not important, wealth is important. But not a priority.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  3. #13
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    yes, but the OP didn't seem to think that you could be SP and be a decent person
    Yeah Elfboy creates threads that seem one dimensional or stereotypical to me, don't know if that's on purpose or not but they can kick off interesting discussion, the points that are disagreed with that is, as the disagreements are the interesting parts imo.

    The biggest error that came out of the OP was the focus on the end result as opposed to why, the whole screwing people over for self interests isn't right, the putting self interests ahead of a situation where no one is screwed over is different. The scenarios in the OP don't seem to actually screw anyone over, it's simply that the impression given is that of being heartless... which is where the "why" matters imo.

  4. #14
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    you are sp/sx... I'm sp/so (and pretty damned close on the two of them!) after a split second mental evaluation of "will this involve jail time?" I tend to happily jump in and help other people with anything! I don't require much in life and know that if things ever get bad again that I have the resources to get what I need to live- other people lack that instinct and need to be helped and who better to do it that someone who is resourceful?

    my only objection to joining the military is that I tend to do the opposite of what I'm told on principle and speak back when it's a bad idea to do so
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #15
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    The Elboy's point is that SPs are selfish like him. But it's not what self-preservation is about.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

  6. #16
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    the point of the OP was that self preservation people choose their own needs over others in times of dire circumstance... I did this specifically to illlustrate the differences on a primal/instinctual level.
    Dire situations need to viewed separately as times where others can be harmed, and times when no one else is involved. My sp tendencies run deep but not at the expense of others.

  7. #17
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    The Elboy's point is that SPs are selfish like him. But it's not what self-preservation is about.
    that was not my point at all.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
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  8. #18
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    elfboy- you use way too many stereotypes and paint with a spray gun where a very fine brush should be required... every time you start a thread like this you just end up getting a bunch of negative reactions. You'd think, as a self typed primary Ne user, that you'd be able to connect the dots
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #19
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    Yeah Elfboy creates threads that seem one dimensional or stereotypical to me, don't know if that's on purpose or not but they can kick off interesting discussion, the points that are disagreed with that is, as the disagreements are the interesting parts imo.
    disagreed



    The biggest error that came out of the OP was the focus on the end result as opposed to why, the whole screwing people over for self interests isn't right, the putting self interests ahead of a situation where no one is screwed over is different. The scenarios in the OP don't seem to actually screw anyone over, it's simply that the impression given is that of being heartless... which is where the "why" matters imo.
    agreed, the biggest "error" if you will was that they situations were not explained well enough and lacked any sort of context. still, this was initially supposed to be a fun thread. perhaps the former misconception comes from the fact that all of my threads are intended to be debate threads
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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    5w4>1w9>2w1 Sx/Sp
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    Papa Bear
    Motivation: Dark Worker
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    Sunburst!
    "You are a gay version of Gambit" Speed Gavroche
    "I wish that I could be affected by any hate, but I can't, cuz I just get affected by the bank" Chamillionaire

  10. #20
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    After haver thought a bit more about this, I realize that if my parents were dead, my first reaction would be to cry. Just have a hard time to figure out "death"? Actually I'm not sure. I remembered that when my grandfather dead I cryed two weeks later because I need that time to realize it. And I missed his funeral, thing that I sadly regreted then.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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