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  1. #11
    Senior Member Onceajoan's Avatar
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    Differentiating between SX as a subtype and Type 4 is difficult since there are many similarities. Push pull relationships are not only specific to SXs, they are also specific to 4s interpersonal experiences. SXs and Fours both like intense romantic encounters. They live for INTENSE EXPERIENCES - The more intense the better. Like 4s, sexual types are intimacy junkies - it relates to intensity and the desire to merge with the other. Fours also have a tendency towards depression - so it really doesn't help to describe SX Fours as having propensity for depression when relationships go sour... uh...yeah...that's what any Four would do - -and come to think of it...any person would do. BUT...not to the same depths as other Enneagram types. The depression runs deep. There are other SX and Four parallels.

    The point is: It's really difficult to identify a Four as a Sexual Type - the descriptions overlap quite a bit. The only way to really figure it out would to be to identify the Four in question as MORE FOUR (that is, the Four is not particularily motivated towards self preservation or social activities). By default you would get SX Four.
    What if everything's an illusion and nothing exists? In that case, I definitely overpaid for my carpet. - Woody Allen

  2. #12
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    asides from just figuring out sx, so, and sp separately, what about a type 4 with the various stackings? anyone have insight?
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  3. #13
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Some other things that might help to narrow it down:
    - It seems that e4 so doms are keenly aware of their social inadequency and differences from others, and social acceptance, or the lack thereof, is often a major focus. They often want to test the waters before revealing something (such as their taste in music) that may cause potential embarrassment or draw judgement from others
    thinking about these things more, i'd say feeling inadequate used to pervade my mind... however it's not something i feel very much of anymore. i've learned to be proud of who i am, i suppose. but even in the past, this wasn't a feeling that was always present. but it came and went a lot during different periods of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    - E4 sp doms are less ashamed and apologetic about their social ineptitude and/or differences and are more likely to have a, "This is me - get used to it" attitude, even if there are underlying self-esteem issues.
    i can't say that i'm unapologetic... i've never really enjoyed standing out... i prefer to be more understated or unassuming. but do still feel the need to be seen as different, at the same time. just not outstandingly so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    - E4 sps aren't as good at adapting to different sorts of social situations and will hang back more, whereas e4 so-doms make more of an effort to socialize even if they are uncomfortable about it. I also find so-dom introverts are more talkative (and can seem extrovert-like at times) than sp-dom introverts.
    i go back and forth between these two phases. currently, i make more of an effort. but this is actually new for even myself. most of my life i hung back. but these days i can be quite talkative and extroverted like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    - Also one thing I heard about e4 sp-doms is that they sometimes intentionally accentuate their differences (eg. saying overly weird things or proudly wearing unusual clothing) as a defense mechanism
    can't say i relate to this. but i've always had a strange attitude towards clothing, style and the concept of how these things are just masks or personas.
    i have a hard time explaining what i mean by this... i suppose i hate looking cliche... but i'm also aggravated by people who are overtly loud with their clothing. i dislike labels and trends, and prefer to wear something truly befitting to who i am. and i prefer to think of who i am as not fake, and not out for attention, and not trying to conform or rebel or attempting to fit some subculture, either. so, i think this same understated or unassuming attitude is transferred to my clothing preferences as well.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  4. #14
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Some other things that might help to narrow it down:
    - It seems that e4 so doms are keenly aware of their social inadequency and differences from others, and social acceptance, or the lack thereof, is often a major focus. They often want to test the waters before revealing something (such as their taste in music) that may cause potential embarrassment or draw judgement from others
    - E4 sp doms are less ashamed and apologetic about their social ineptitude and/or differences and are more likely to have a, "This is me - get used to it" attitude, even if there are underlying self-esteem issues.
    - E4 sps aren't as good at adapting to different sorts of social situations and will hang back more, whereas e4 so-doms make more of an effort to socialize even if they are uncomfortable about it. I also find so-dom introverts are more talkative (and can seem extrovert-like at times) than sp-dom introverts.
    - Also one thing I heard about e4 sp-doms is that they sometimes intentionally accentuate their differences (eg. saying overly weird things or proudly wearing unusual clothing) as a defense mechanism
    First point about E4 so variants... I can relate to this one. I tend to keep certain personal interests away from view, unless someone shows interest in it.

    First point about E4 sp variants... yeah, I can be a bit like that. Second point about sp's and so's and social settings... I do hold back a bit, until I see a positive sign from others that they actually want to interact with me, or if there's someone in front of me on the cash register line, I don't mind interacting with them, as long as I get the "green light" to interact with them. When I was in high school, even though I felt uncomfortable in social situations, I kind of pushed myself to interact with others. Same thing in college.

    Wearing strange clothing... I think most of my clothing is more on the classic side than strange, pretty subdued. But there are times where I feel the urge to wear an unusual shade of nail polish... for example light blue.

    Perhaps this could be a sign of being more so-dom than sp-dom.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  5. #15
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    thinking about these things more, i'd say feeling inadequate used to pervade my mind... however it's not something i feel very much of anymore. i've learned to be proud of who i am, i suppose. but even in the past, this wasn't a feeling that was always present. but it came and went a lot during different periods of time.

    i can't say that i'm unapologetic... i've never really enjoyed standing out... i prefer to be more understated or unassuming. but do still feel the need to be seen as different, at the same time. just not outstandingly so.

    i go back and forth between these two phases. currently, i make more of an effort. but this is actually new for even myself. most of my life i hung back. but these days i can be quite talkative and extroverted like.

    can't say i relate to this. but i've always had a strange attitude towards clothing, style and the concept of how these things are just masks or personas.
    i have a hard time explaining what i mean by this... i suppose i hate looking cliche... but i'm also aggravated by people who are overtly loud with their clothing. i dislike labels and trends, and prefer to wear something truly befitting to who i am. and i prefer to think of who i am as not fake, and not out for attention, and not trying to conform or rebel or attempting to fit some subculture, either. so, i think this same understated or unassuming attitude is transferred to my clothing preferences as well.
    You do sound more so-dom than sp then.

    Some of the points from my experience as social type: I also think highly of myself (not that I am arrogant) and am proud of various aspects of myself. However, that pride and self-esteem is often so fragile when under the scrutiny of others. I fret about how I present myself to others because I fear judgement from them. For example: I'm a big indie rock and folk music lover but only really listen to this music alone. I know very well that they are very popular and acclaimed bands and I am a proud fan but when it comes to playing to others I am embarrassed and fear someone may tell me its weird and stupid (which they do). It doesn't change how I feel about it but it does alter the way I present myself to others. This goes for clothing too: I'm not a big fashionista and prefer to wear clothing that interests me (ie. I do think for myself) but also lets me blend into the crowd. In everything, I am constantly trying to balance adhering to what I like and care about, with fitting in with what is socially accepted. For this reason I will conceal or edit aspects of myself to suit the social setting.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    First point about E4 sp variants... yeah, I can be a bit like that. Second point about sp's and so's and social settings... I do hold back a bit, until I see a positive sign from others that they actually want to interact with me, or if there's someone in front of me on the cash register line, I don't mind interacting with them, as long as I get the "green light" to interact with them. When I was in high school, even though I felt uncomfortable in social situations, I kind of pushed myself to interact with others. Same thing in college.
    I'm a 4w5 so/sp so I'm a little bipolar with socializing. I used to be extremely shy as a child and teenager but I tried really hard to change it. Really all I am is better at concealing the fact that I used to be. I still really avoid most social situations a great deal but when I am in them I try to make an effort and will often seem outgoing despite often feeling rather uncomfortable. I think as a so-dom I feel more compelled to chit-chat for the sake of others compared with sps. I think it must be confusing for others when looking at it from their perspective: often I'm talkative, sociable, part of the group, and seemingly enjoying myself; then suddenly I become quiet and distant or just disappear and withdraw in a hermit-like fashion. I'm really up and down and all over the place. I don't even entirely know where the talkativeness comes from; sometimes its to cover up nerves, sometimes its because I find a subject I feel comfortable and confident in talking about so I seize the opportunity and sometimes I just trying my best to best to interact and fit in. Its such a push/pull feeling for me - I want to be around others but want to escape them at the same time.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  6. #16
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Someone use the word "truly" again.

    That would be truly befitting for this thread.

    Post pictures of your clothes.

    thinking of you

  7. #17
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onceajoan View Post
    Differentiating between SX as a subtype and Type 4 is difficult since there are many similarities. Push pull relationships are not only specific to SXs, they are also specific to 4s interpersonal experiences. SXs and Fours both like intense romantic encounters. They live for INTENSE EXPERIENCES - The more intense the better. Like 4s, sexual types are intimacy junkies - it relates to intensity and the desire to merge with the other. Fours also have a tendency towards depression - so it really doesn't help to describe SX Fours as having propensity for depression when relationships go sour... uh...yeah...that's what any Four would do - -and come to think of it...any person would do. BUT...not to the same depths as other Enneagram types. The depression runs deep. There are other SX and Four parallels.

    The point is: It's really difficult to identify a Four as a Sexual Type - the descriptions overlap quite a bit. The only way to really figure it out would to be to identify the Four in question as MORE FOUR (that is, the Four is not particularily motivated towards self preservation or social activities). By default you would get SX Four.
    I definitely don't relate to this aspect of 4s, which probably just says I am not sx-dom (which I know). I don't know if it's my 5 wing or being sp-dom, but I avoid intensity as described (I feel quite intense enough internally, but it's also damped down when interacting with others). I crave intimacy in my ideal daydream land, but I have such a morbid fear of rejection after revealing my soft underbelly that I often run if I approach anything resembling intense emotional experiences with other people. It makes me feel overwhelmed & way too vulnerable. Overt displays of emotion are so uncomfortable for me, in myself and others.

    I've also read that it's common for 4s to be drawn to "unavailable" people so they can remain a fantasy in the 4's head instead of the 4 having to deal with the reality of a relationship, which they fear for many reasons.

    There is a push-pull aspect that stems from being 4w5 in itself. There is the 4 craving for intensity and intimacy and the 5 tendency to get overwhelmed easily & need a lot of space. 4s, like 5s, also value their autonomy greatly, so any relationship which threatens that may get the push. I feel like even the sp/sx combo gives a push-pull effect. It's like I literally want to preserve myself, not subject myself to the risk of hurt, but at the same time you have to take a risk for any kind of connection to another person. My nature is to duck my head in my shell in response to anything that could be filed under "intense".

    Well, the exception would be hearing out other people about their feelings, even if rather intense. I can play therapist, but I remain rather detached. It doesn't affect my own state.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #18
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    You do sound more so-dom than sp then.

    Some of the points from my experience as social type: I also think highly of myself (not that I am arrogant) and am proud of various aspects of myself. However, that pride and self-esteem is often so fragile when under the scrutiny of others. I fret about how I present myself to others because I fear judgement from them. For example: I'm a big indie rock and folk music lover but only really listen to this music alone. I know very well that they are very popular and acclaimed bands and I am a proud fan but when it comes to playing to others I am embarrassed and fear someone may tell me its weird and stupid (which they do). It doesn't change how I feel about it but it does alter the way I present myself to others. This goes for clothing too: I'm not a big fashionista and prefer to wear clothing that interests me (ie. I do think for myself) but also lets me blend into the crowd. In everything, I am constantly trying to balance adhering to what I like and care about, with fitting in with what is socially accepted. For this reason I will conceal or edit aspects of myself to suit the social setting.

    I'm a 4w5 so/sp so I'm a little bipolar with socializing. I used to be extremely shy as a child and teenager but I tried really hard to change it. Really all I am is better at concealing the fact that I used to be. I still really avoid most social situations a great deal but when I am in them I try to make an effort and will often seem outgoing despite often feeling rather uncomfortable. I think as a so-dom I feel more compelled to chit-chat for the sake of others compared with sps. I think it must be confusing for others when looking at it from their perspective: often I'm talkative, sociable, part of the group, and seemingly enjoying myself; then suddenly I become quiet and distant or just disappear and withdraw in a hermit-like fashion. I'm really up and down and all over the place. I don't even entirely know where the talkativeness comes from; sometimes its to cover up nerves, sometimes its because I find a subject I feel comfortable and confident in talking about so I seize the opportunity and sometimes I just trying my best to best to interact and fit in. Its such a push/pull feeling for me - I want to be around others but want to escape them at the same time.
    this sounds very much like me. maybe i am so/sp?

    Quote Originally Posted by candylandjoe View Post
    Someone use the word "truly" again.

    That would be truly befitting for this thread.
    ?
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  9. #19
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post

    Some of the points from my experience as social type: I also think highly of myself (not that I am arrogant) and am proud of various aspects of myself. However, that pride and self-esteem is often so fragile when under the scrutiny of others. I fret about how I present myself to others because I fear judgement from them. For example: I'm a big indie rock and folk music lover but only really listen to this music alone. I know very well that they are very popular and acclaimed bands and I am a proud fan but when it comes to playing to others I am embarrassed and fear someone may tell me its weird and stupid (which they do). It doesn't change how I feel about it but it does alter the way I present myself to others. This goes for clothing too: I'm not a big fashionista and prefer to wear clothing that interests me (ie. I do think for myself) but also lets me blend into the crowd. In everything, I am constantly trying to balance adhering to what I like and care about, with fitting in with what is socially accepted. For this reason I will conceal or edit aspects of myself to suit the social setting.

    I'm a 4w5 so/sp so I'm a little bipolar with socializing. I used to be extremely shy as a child and teenager but I tried really hard to change it. Really all I am is better at concealing the fact that I used to be. I still really avoid most social situations a great deal but when I am in them I try to make an effort and will often seem outgoing despite often feeling rather uncomfortable. I think as a so-dom I feel more compelled to chit-chat for the sake of others compared with sps. I think it must be confusing for others when looking at it from their perspective: often I'm talkative, sociable, part of the group, and seemingly enjoying myself; then suddenly I become quiet and distant or just disappear and withdraw in a hermit-like fashion. I'm really up and down and all over the place. I don't even entirely know where the talkativeness comes from; sometimes its to cover up nerves, sometimes its because I find a subject I feel comfortable and confident in talking about so I seize the opportunity and sometimes I just trying my best to best to interact and fit in. Its such a push/pull feeling for me - I want to be around others but want to escape them at the same time.
    Yeah, when I was a kid, I tended to speak my mind, and sometimes what I said came across as being a bit odd, got ridiculed for it, and then I'd feel embarrassed about it. Nowadays in conversations, I am so quiet, lucky enough if you get me to say something, and when I feel I have something of relevance to add to the conversation, I speak up. Otherwise, I hang in the background. Being friendly with others isn't a problem though. Just I'm usually the "quiet one" in the group. I do love leading projects and reporting to the class what the group has done, it's a huge confidence booster. Not sure which instinctual variant that means... perhaps showing individualism through leadership. I think having a strong 5 wing can be a reason behind this, because 5's integration point is towards 8 traits... and type 4's integration point is towards 1 traits, so basically showing who's boss and get the slackers in line. Might be a self-preserving/social reaction. I don't necessarily search to escape people per se, but if I am in a situation where I feel overwhelmed, incompetent, or I'm really screwing up, it can be embarrassing as anything, I feel like everyone is staring at me, and I just want to disappear.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I definitely don't relate to this aspect of 4s, which probably just says I am not sx-dom (which I know). I don't know if it's my 5 wing or being sp-dom, but I avoid intensity as described (I feel quite intense enough internally, but it's also damped down when interacting with others). I crave intimacy in my ideal daydream land, but I have such a morbid fear of rejection after revealing my soft underbelly that I often run if I approach anything resembling intense emotional experiences with other people. It makes me feel overwhelmed & way too vulnerable. Overt displays of emotion are so uncomfortable for me, in myself and others.

    I've also read that it's common for 4s to be drawn to "unavailable" people so they can remain a fantasy in the 4's head instead of the 4 having to deal with the reality of a relationship, which they fear for many reasons.

    There is a push-pull aspect that stems from being 4w5 in itself. There is the 4 craving for intensity and intimacy and the 5 tendency to get overwhelmed easily & need a lot of space. 4s, like 5s, also value their autonomy greatly, so any relationship which threatens that may get the push. I feel like even the sp/sx combo gives a push-pull effect. It's like I literally want to preserve myself, not subject myself to the risk of hurt, but at the same time you have to take a risk for any kind of connection to another person. My nature is to duck my head in my shell in response to anything that could be filed under "intense".

    Well, the exception would be hearing out other people about their feelings, even if rather intense. I can play therapist, but I remain rather detached. It doesn't affect my own state.
    Oh dear, this sounds very familiar about relationships. I'm not exactly comfortable revealing my emotions to another person for fear of being vulnerable, and I'm not a huge fan of overt displays of emotion either. And yes, I have been drawn to unavailable guys too, or sometimes I end up making myself harder to reach for fear of rejection. Seems self-defeating though.

    I prefer to remain detached from other people's problems too, but I sympathize with how they are feeling.

    I can see the difference between sp, so, and sx much clearer.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  10. #20
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I definitely don't relate to this aspect of 4s, which probably just says I am not sx-dom (which I know). I don't know if it's my 5 wing or being sp-dom, but I avoid intensity as described (I feel quite intense enough internally, but it's also damped down when interacting with others). I crave intimacy in my ideal daydream land, but I have such a morbid fear of rejection after revealing my soft underbelly that I often run if I approach anything resembling intense emotional experiences with other people. It makes me feel overwhelmed & way too vulnerable. Overt displays of emotion are so uncomfortable for me, in myself and others.

    I've also read that it's common for 4s to be drawn to "unavailable" people so they can remain a fantasy in the 4's head instead of the 4 having to deal with the reality of a relationship, which they fear for many reasons.

    There is a push-pull aspect that stems from being 4w5 in itself. There is the 4 craving for intensity and intimacy and the 5 tendency to get overwhelmed easily & need a lot of space. 4s, like 5s, also value their autonomy greatly, so any relationship which threatens that may get the push. I feel like even the sp/sx combo gives a push-pull effect. It's like I literally want to preserve myself, not subject myself to the risk of hurt, but at the same time you have to take a risk for any kind of connection to another person. My nature is to duck my head in my shell in response to anything that could be filed under "intense".

    Well, the exception would be hearing out other people about their feelings, even if rather intense. I can play therapist, but I remain rather detached. It doesn't affect my own state.
    hmm... this sounds like me as well. i'm thinking i may be some combination of sp/so or so/sp and not an sx after all.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

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