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  1. #1
    Member October Rust's Avatar
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    Unhappy Confusion Over Instinctual Variants

    I don't know if I'm just failing to grasp something that is obvious, but I can't work out the difference in the descriptions of behaviors that can occur when a person with the variant as their primary is unhealthy, and the descriptions of what someone may be like if it last in their stacking.

    For example, someone with the social variant as their primary could act antisocially, resent people and be withdrawn if they are unhealthy. But if someone has it as the last variant in their stacking, they have difficulty in seeing the need in maintaining social connections... isn't that the same thing? Or does an unhealthy person with social as their primary still see the need for social relations, but push people away anyway? Something like that? Now I'm just confusing myself..

    Please try and clarify.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Onceajoan's Avatar
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    I believe (don't know if I'm correct):

    The individual with social variant as their primary would be FOCUSED, that is, this person would focus their energy and attention to the social. This person would be less interested developing intimate relationships as their primary focus or self preservation. The primary refers to the primary focus of energy whether constructive or nonconstructive. A person who resented others and was withdrawn would be focused on that aspect of their life - their struggle relating to others, their struggle participating in the community, their difficulty feeling connected to the great social sphere.

    The social variant laster, on the contrary, may not see the need for social connections because it's really not on their radar - it's not their FOCUS. Rather this person might spend their time and energy searching for deep, meaningful relationships or maintaining a home by working hard to provide for their family - this may be something that this person highly idenitifies with - that is, being the provider, being the king of their castle. The primary variant also corresponds with one's sense of identity in terms of the role a person plays (I could be wrong here...)

  3. #3
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Don't know if this is a good comparative but have you ever tried to lead with cognitive process Se, particularly for any duration? If so, does it feel natural or do you experience any form of conflict?

  4. #4
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onceajoan View Post
    I believe (don't know if I'm correct):

    The individual with social variant as their primary would be FOCUSED, that is, this person would focus their energy and attention to the social. This person would be less interested developing intimate relationships as their primary focus or self preservation. The primary refers to the primary focus of energy whether constructive or nonconstructive. A person who resented others and was withdrawn would be focused on that aspect of their life - their struggle relating to others, their struggle participating in the community, their difficulty feeling connected to the great social sphere.

    The social variant laster, on the contrary, may not see the need for social connections because it's really not on their radar - it's not their FOCUS. Rather this person might spend their time and energy searching for deep, meaningful relationships or maintaining a home by working hard to provide for their family - this may be something that this person highly idenitifies with - that is, being the provider, being the king of their castle. The primary variant also corresponds with one's sense of identity in terms of the role a person plays (I could be wrong here...)
    I think you're right here.
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  5. #5
    Member October Rust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onceajoan View Post
    I believe (don't know if I'm correct):

    The individual with social variant as their primary would be FOCUSED, that is, this person would focus their energy and attention to the social. This person would be less interested developing intimate relationships as their primary focus or self preservation. The primary refers to the primary focus of energy whether constructive or nonconstructive. A person who resented others and was withdrawn would be focused on that aspect of their life - their struggle relating to others, their struggle participating in the community, their difficulty feeling connected to the great social sphere.

    The social variant laster, on the contrary, may not see the need for social connections because it's really not on their radar - it's not their FOCUS. Rather this person might spend their time and energy searching for deep, meaningful relationships or maintaining a home by working hard to provide for their family - this may be something that this person highly idenitifies with - that is, being the provider, being the king of their castle. The primary variant also corresponds with one's sense of identity in terms of the role a person plays (I could be wrong here...)
    Thanks, this does make a lot of sense.

    I don't know if I'm trying to resist labeling myself as a social firster because I'm a 4w5. But I do seem to frequently brood over social embarrassments and pay a great amount of attention to people around me, whether they are looking at me, who gets on well with who and the like.

    I often daydream about developing a deep connection with someone, but I rarely pursue it... in fact, I've never been in a relationship. I don't need very much change or excitement in my life and often fall into routine. I find myself wanting to share more about myself with others but being too self-conscious to do so.

    I can relate to the self-preserving instinct in that I often have unhealthy eating and sleeping habits and am very fussy about the way things are organized in my room. Everything has to fit the "mood". I save, but then somehow end up feeling sorry for myself and buying something expensive...

    What does everyone think?

    Quote Originally Posted by metaphor
    Don't know if this is a good comparative but have you ever tried to lead with cognitive process Se, particularly for any duration? If so, does it feel natural or do you experience any form of conflict?
    I have on a few occasions. It is quite unnatural for me... I find that to do so, I have to try and turn off all my inner functioning, and it feels like my mind is experiencing some kind of sensory deprivation. I don't really know how I feel about what is happening until afterward when I have had time to reflect.

  6. #6
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    the way I understand it:
    Self Preservation: self preservation types are all about their personal needs. am I safe? am I comfortable? am I happy? do I have money? we tend to spend most of our time trying to better our circumstances are relaxing and enjoying them. usually a self preservation type is not going to be an impulsive person and don't like to do things that are risky or unpleasant unless there is a large reward. most entrepreneurs, corporate executives and wealthy investors are self preservation. many self sacrifice is not part of our vocabulary. an example of what I mean from when I was in high school
    military recruiter: have you ever thought of joining the army?
    me: nope
    military commander: why not?
    me: I don't want to die
    military commander: don't you want to serve your country?
    me: if it means dying, lots of pain, and doing whatever people tell me to, not really no
    I should add that I had no disrespect for the military recruiter, as an INFP I respect people who are willing fight for their believes (although the believes of the military certainly don't match mine)

    Sexual: sexual people are kind of like protectors. they don't usually have very lots of friends, but they will usually have one love interests that they shower adoration, affection and dedication on and want to bond deeply with this person. similarly, they will tend to have maybe 1-5 friends (who are probably not part of the same group) whom they have strong personal bonds with as well and will protect at all costs.

    Social: social instinct people are essential pack animals. group oriented, strong desire to fit in, and strive for unity with whichever group they are a part of. they tend to based decisions off of what is best for the group and often end up neglecting their own needs in the process. depending on which MBTI type and Enneagram they are, they tend to fit in and be useful to the group in very different ways. for instance, in the military, a social ISTJ might join the infantry whereas a social ENTP might be land a job dealing with battle tactics.

    it seems me like most NTs are self preservation, most NFs are sexual and most Sensors are social, but I have no data to back this up.

    PS: I am SP/SX, so I apologize in advance if this post seems biased. I don't have as much info on social instinct

  7. #7
    Member October Rust's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input Elfboy

    I think I'm either self-preservation first or second (probably first). I get really annoyed if the temperature of a room isn't to my liking. If people come into my room and leave their things lying around or put something of mine back in the wrong place, I notice. I don't take many risks. I'm really fussy about the food I eat. I hate sleeping over at other people's houses because it is a different environment to what I'm used to and I don't have all my belongings available to me.

    I'm not sure if sexual or social is higher for me though. I've never had many friends. I'm really socially withdrawn and not at all good at talking to people. I sometimes feel that I have no place in society. I can relate to the "shame" aspect of the social four descriptions... I often notice if people are staring at me and things like that. I dress in quite an unusual way despite this. I don't like being asked personal questions too soon. It takes me a while to open up to someone. I prefer talking to one person than to a group. I am aware of if there is a connection between me and the other person or not... I analyze them, to see if they understand me or not. There is usually someone I really like and devote a lot of my attention to.

    I've read the stacking descriptions but I can find a bit of me in all of them, really.
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