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Thread: the so/sp 5w4

  1. #1
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Default the so/sp 5w4

    I've only recently (today) come to the final conclusion that this is the enneagram combination that most closely matches my temperament, in that I experience this tremendous polarity (speaking of push/pull) between a very real hunger for social interaction, to sponge up every minute detail regarding hierarchies, what's expected behavior, etc., while retaining an aloofness that, on one level, bewilders all parties involved, though on another is valuable in that-- at least internally-- this natural distancing provides unusual insights that tend to be incredibly accurate so long as money, ego, stress, or a combination of the 3 aren't involved.

    How much does variant rely on type? I'm wondering if so-dominance in the enneagram is rooted in being infp at all, especially as a 5. If so, how much?

    Any experience, links to information, anecdotals?

  2. #2

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    Hi there CandylandJoe, Would you consider the below to be accurate about yourself? also I've notice that many so-dom's have a issue with social anxiety, I'm sure that anxiety is rather reinforced by being a type Five, but that has been my own personal experience I may be wrong.


    Social/Self-pres

    One might think that the energy of this subtype would be warmer and friendlier than that of the self-pres/social, but it doesn’t usually present that way. Because the social instinct is dominant, these Fives are much more aware of their role in the group. They are therefore more careful of their involvements with others. The social arena is more important and is invested with more energy, so these Fives will pull up faster and harder into self-pres mode if they should feel at all threatened. This will sometimes give others the impression of coldness. This subtype will center a lot of their intellectual interest around the workings of society, humanity or spirituality. This serves as their connection with people. By means of these abstract mental constructs, Fives of this subtype feel a sense of belonging socially, without having to be personally involved and invested. The healthier people of this subtype are, the more they are able to integrate their mental constructs with their actual experiences. They can really be content to adopt the role of “people watcher,” but they do it from a closer and closer perspective. Their blind spot revolves around the fact that they tend to convince themselves they can get along just fine in the observer role. It does feel safer to them. If they do have a few people relatively close to them, they can really strike a good balance between their need to withdraw and their need to connect to the larger social world.

    This subtype could be seen as the most intellectual of type Five. The combination of the basic desire for knowing with the social instinct’s need to "fit in," makes people of this subtype want to find a niche as the expert. Their interest in structure, especially social structure, accentuates their natural inclination for acquiring knowledge. With the sexual instinct least developed, this subtype is in the position of having a strong pull towards understanding the workings of the world around them, without the emotional intensity of the sexual instinct setting up any distraction. These Fives fit the role of the scientist or professor quite well in this respect.


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  3. #3
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    Hi there CandylandJoe, Would you consider the below to be accurate about yourself? also I've notice that many so-dom's have a issue with social anxiety, I'm sure that anxiety is rather reinforced by being a type Five, but that has been my own personal experience I may be wrong.


    Social/Self-pres

    One might think that the energy of this subtype would be warmer and friendlier than that of the self-pres/social, but it doesn’t usually present that way. Because the social instinct is dominant, these Fives are much more aware of their role in the group. They are therefore more careful of their involvements with others. The social arena is more important and is invested with more energy, so these Fives will pull up faster and harder into self-pres mode if they should feel at all threatened. This will sometimes give others the impression of coldness. This subtype will center a lot of their intellectual interest around the workings of society, humanity or spirituality. This serves as their connection with people. By means of these abstract mental constructs, Fives of this subtype feel a sense of belonging socially, without having to be personally involved and invested. The healthier people of this subtype are, the more they are able to integrate their mental constructs with their actual experiences. They can really be content to adopt the role of “people watcher,” but they do it from a closer and closer perspective. Their blind spot revolves around the fact that they tend to convince themselves they can get along just fine in the observer role. It does feel safer to them. If they do have a few people relatively close to them, they can really strike a good balance between their need to withdraw and their need to connect to the larger social world.

    This subtype could be seen as the most intellectual of type Five. The combination of the basic desire for knowing with the social instinct’s need to "fit in," makes people of this subtype want to find a niche as the expert. Their interest in structure, especially social structure, accentuates their natural inclination for acquiring knowledge. With the sexual instinct least developed, this subtype is in the position of having a strong pull towards understanding the workings of the world around them, without the emotional intensity of the sexual instinct setting up any distraction. These Fives fit the role of the scientist or professor quite well in this respect.


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    Hey Will. Thanks for the info. Absolutely on the social anxiety; my inner barometer is constantly measuring surroundings, probing for any/all cues that go towards understanding (basic need of 5s) the webbings of every social situation, how I can most efficiently interact while maintaining a measured sense of balance (self-pres - isn't an individual's supporting varient the one which the world sees the most?). I think, in the past, I've mistaken this basic need as having a strong 4 wing, though it's now clear that a soc. preference should be held just as accountable.

    It should be noted that, until this thread, I'd accepted dom-sp. as my preference, which probably stems from a lifelong habit of resenting the pretty much desperate need to, at the very least, be around people to collect information once in a while (preferably at work - multitasking) I'm fully aware that there will always, always be more to decipher out in the world, and that's all it really takes to get me up in the morning, the idea that maybe one of today's observations/interactions will lead to having that big fat, carmel-filled epiphany I've been dreaming about. So would I like to be perceived as a resident go-to expert? Absolutely. I'm drooling over the thought.

    A friend of mine is an intj 1 1w9 sx/so who often seems to have a greater desire to contact me than the reverse, which I assume is because he draws much of his energy from the one on ones. Does this resonate with you or anyone else reading? What are other hurdles in communication with soc.-doms, particularly 5s? If you've noticed any, how've you managed them?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by candylandjoe View Post
    Hey Will. Thanks for the info. Absolutely on the social anxiety; my inner barometer is constantly measuring surroundings, probing for any/all cues that go towards understanding (basic need of 5s) the webbings of every social situation, how I can most efficiently interact while maintaining a measured sense of balance (self-pres - isn't an individual's supporting varient the one which the world sees the most?). I think, in the past, I've mistaken this basic need as having a strong 4 wing, though it's now clear that a soc. preference should be held just as accountable.

    It should be noted that, until this thread, I'd accepted dom-sp. as my preference, which probably stems from a lifelong habit of resenting the pretty much desperate need to, at the very least, be around people to collect information once in a while (preferably at work - multitasking) I'm fully aware that there will always, always be more to decipher out in the world, and that's all it really takes to get me up in the morning, the idea that maybe one of today's observations/interactions will lead to having that big fat, carmel-filled epiphany I've been dreaming about. So would I like to be perceived as a resident go-to expert? Absolutely. I'm drooling over the thought.

    A friend of mine is an intj 1 1w9 sx/so who often seems to have a greater desire to contact me than the reverse, which I assume is because he draws much of his energy from the one on ones. Does this resonate with you or anyone else reading? What are other hurdles in communication with soc.-doms, particularly 5s? If you've noticed any, how've you managed them?

    Hey Candy, My apologies for not responding to this earlier, I return to university this week, so sort of mentally preparing. I can relate to the
    desire on your part to be the "resident go-to expert" but I don't think the desire is as intense for me as it is for yourself. I do have the need at times to be that "go-to" person for advice from intimates, lol perhaps its me putting the soc-last instinct to use.


    As for hurdles in communication with Soc-Doms, I would say I have very little hurdles with them. My Girlfriend and My best friend are both INFP 4w5 so/sx's and We get along great, But I do think that Soc-doms definitely have a need to be like social butterflies (I should expand on that for the risk of sounding redundant), Specifically for Fours i've noticed they bounce around from friend to friend, not in a negative manner but I have only ran into a few confirmed Soc-4's, Not sure if my experience is the best though, as the Fours that I have encountered are Soc/Sex and I, being an Sexual-Dom reinforces the middle instinctual variant.

    I have only met one So-dom Five, he was an so/sx 5w4, although him and I were rather similar, though he definitely was much more extraverted than I, he was really into poetry readings and performing spoken word, while I being more bookish and more book-ish, I'd rather retreat and isolate myself, in order to have a peace of mind with interludes of socialising with people. I suppose that's the SP middle variant in effect. As an SX-dom, I do have a need to connect with people on a one-on-one basis, I'm really energised by one-on-one conversations, I can lose myself in conversation if the topic is interesting enough, but there is a need to not be overwhelmed by it all and have my "alone time" to process the world and figure things out, Definitely a push-and-pull effect that fluctuates, Hopefully I have deviated from your initial point haha, I tend to go off on tangents.

  5. #5
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Albert Einstein was a So/Sp 5w4.

    I knew one or two So/Sp 5 (5w6). They are clearly one of the most tough and intelectually snobish type of 5. I knew also a So/Sx 5w6, and in comparaison, I can say that both Social 5 are verbose and outspoken when it's time to intellectual speech and intelectual debates. But So/Sp are colder and more steady, while So/Sx are more warm and eccentric, and totally disorganised. So/Sp 5 are naturally prone to get a respected place in society, while So/Sx have a hard time to be that steady and organised.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

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    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Albert Einstein was a So/Sp 5w4.

    I knew one or two So/Sp 5 (5w6). They are clearly one of the most tough and intelectually snobish type of 5. I knew also a So/Sx 5w6, and in comparaison, I can say that both Social 5 are verbose and outspoken when it's time to intellectual speech and intelectual debates. But So/Sp are colder and more steady, while So/Sx are more warm and eccentric, and totally disorganised. So/Sp 5 are naturally prone to get a respected place in society, while So/Sx have a hard time to be that steady and organised.

    I would agree with this, Could you offer any perspective on SX fives? It would be interesting to hear your take on it.

  7. #7
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Albert Einstein was a So/Sp 5w4.
    Why a 4 wing?

    Also, OP - why a 4 wing?
    Hello

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    This subtype will center a lot of their intellectual interest around the workings of society, humanity or spirituality. This serves as their connection with people.
    Oh! This is why I can be INTJ, yet put my focus on learning in the area of education rather than math, is that right? And I do have a feeling of goodwill towards people, but I find it grating to be around them most times. Is that all part 5w4 so/sp?

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    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_World_As_Will View Post
    I would agree with this, Could you offer any perspective on SX fives? It would be interesting to hear your take on it.
    I'm not sure to have met a sexual 5. I talked about social 5w6, that I've identified. This is a variant that I know quite well. I think I know a Sx/So 5w6. He's a sort of caricatural nerd, but also very eloquent and assertive. Very confontational. Driven to be outspoken toward groups about what he think. His humor is great, very nerdy and wich press your buttons. He's also analytical and technically oriented, I guess 5w4 are more fantasist. I don't know any 5w4 Sx/So IRL.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Why a 4 wing?
    Actually, I dunno. I say that because I've seen him typed like taht. But in comparaison, Isaac Asimov where presented as an example of So/Sp 5w6. One is more fantasist, the other one is more techical I guess. But Isaac Asimov resonates pretty well with So/Sp 5w6 I know.
    EsTP 6w7 Sx/Sp

    Chaotic Neutral

    E=60% S=55% T=70% P=80%

    "I don't believe in guilt, I only believe in living on impulses"

    "Stereotypes about personality and gender turn out to be fairly accurate: ... On the binary Myers-Briggs measure, the thinking-feeling breakdown is about 30/70 for women versus 60/40 for men." ~ Bryan Caplan

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