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  1. #1
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Default Sp/So & So/Sp or just non-Sx's

    Merging with others, what does it mean to you?

    It's generally the Sx domain but how do non-Sx's have deep, emotive relationships where there is a tight, close bond with the other person?

    Do you even want that kind of connection?

    And how can you achieve that (without alcohol)?

    Does it take initiation/pushing from the other person? How do you react to that?

    Do you understand the metaphorical boundaries and stay the hell away or can you push them?

    Can you create a reciprocal relationship where you reveal as much as you give? If so, how?

  2. #2
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    I'm fairly positive that I'm an sp/so. I can most definitely say that I do want that kind of a connection, it even seems to be in an "all or nothing" kind of way. But I can also say that I've never felt a desperate need to form such a connection, it's been more of a faint but constant yearning without falling into excess.

    For me, feeling outright pressured or pushed into something creates a strong negative reaction, but a more subtle approach and yes, initiation from the other party has a much more positive outcome. Since I'm usually slow to take any huge leaps straight away (although sometimes I deliberately push things to see what will happen), it takes a lot of patience from the other party before things get comfortable. And patience is also very important when forming trust within the relationship. I can most definitely create such relationships where there is an equal way of sharing, revealing and giving, but it takes time for it to be comfortable. One might even call it some kind of an X-factor that seems to work with some and not with others.

    I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by metaphorical boundaries, so I'm just going to take a wild stab in the dark. I guess it can go either way, depending on the dynamic with the individual in question. With some people they're natural and there's no need to either stay away of push them, with some it's something else altogether.

  3. #3
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Merging with others, what does it mean to you?

    I'm not sure... I know what that means PHYSICALLY speaking, but not emotionally speaking... on the emotional plane I beleive in his, hers and ours sort of... we share what needs to be shared, but we each have our own personal space as well... it's not secrets, it's just identity

    It's generally the Sx domain but how do non-Sx's have deep, emotive relationships where there is a tight, close bond with the other person?

    I adore the man and he adores me... we have a close connection, but tend to speak more in physical contact and acts of service than any other form of communicating really... we're both SP/SO it turns out, so we have a weird relationship

    Do you even want that kind of connection?

    I like having someone that I can depend on and enjoy being with... I don't need some sort of deep messy emotional quagmire that leaves both people lost and without their own identities, that's just not FUN

    And how can you achieve that (without alcohol)?

    dating an ENFJ with a HEAVY preference for SX interactions

    Does it take initiation/pushing from the other person? How do you react to that?

    don't push me or I'll run away!

    Do you understand the metaphorical boundaries and stay the hell away or can you push them?

    I understand his boundaries, I have my own boundaries... we both leave the boundaries alone, if the other person wants to talk, we're there to listen, but NEVER pressure someone

    Can you create a reciprocal relationship where you reveal as much as you give? If so, how?

    reveal as much as I give... ... not sure what that means! I'm generous with my efforts and time and my physical self, but my mental self is well guarded... that's just the way that I am
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #4
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Firstly - lol at the reference to 'without alcohol'!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    For me, feeling outright pressured or pushed into something creates a strong negative reaction, but a more subtle approach and yes, initiation from the other party has a much more positive outcome. Since I'm usually slow to take any huge leaps straight away (although sometimes I deliberately push things to see what will happen), it takes a lot of patience from the other party before things get comfortable. And patience is also very important when forming trust within the relationship. I can most definitely create such relationships where there is an equal way of sharing, revealing and giving, but it takes time for it to be comfortable. One might even call it some kind of an X-factor that seems to work with some and not with others.
    for me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity
    Merging with others, what does it mean to you?

    It's generally the Sx domain but how do non-Sx's have deep, emotive relationships where there is a tight, close bond with the other person?

    Do you even want that kind of connection?

    And how can you achieve that (without alcohol)?

    Does it take initiation/pushing from the other person? How do you react to that?

    Do you understand the metaphorical boundaries and stay the hell away or can you push them?

    Can you create a reciprocal relationship where you reveal as much as you give? If so, how?
    So... I think there are two distinct possibilities when it comes to the pace at which I connect with someone, and I think it has a direct bearing on the others' personality type and/or enneagram. For example, one of my closest friends is an INFJ, and I believe she is an so/sp. With her, we met up maybe once every month or two for coffee for a year or two. I really don't think we became *close* until beginning in year 3. And now, she's one of my closest friends. A contrasting example, an ENTP. Not sure of his corresponding enneagram, but guessing it is probably a non-sx-dom combo. For whatever reason, the dynamic right from the get-go was such that I felt quite comfortable being completely myself and was immediately as connected in some ways as I am with my INFJ friend. So, what took a matter of years with the INFJ was a matter of days or weeks with the ENTP. With the INFJ, we were both probably too similar that neither was apt to really jump in or initiate in a direct manner. Whereas the ENTP had that extroverted, more initiating edge, thus it proceeded that much quicker. Part of this discrepancy, too, may be my maturing and my choosing to be more open with fewer walls now, vs. 8 years ago.

    When I feel intensely connected to someone, all I can say is that I feel safe, I feel understood/accepted, I feel I can be fully open without being judged, and I feel I can have potentially differing opinions from the other, but we both respect that fact and aren't out to try to convince or change the other to our own way of being. I have written elsewhere that I tend not to be one who, even with close friends, really divulges much in terms of my personal life and feelings associated with it. So I'm not a terribly feely-emotive-conversation person. I think I'm more of an idea-philosophical-concept-conversation person. And, if I am able to have those sorts of discussions, and the discussions *flow* and keep going and there's no awkwardness and there seems to be an ***immediate understanding without having to explain too much in-depth, like our brains are connected***, then I deem that an excellent connection. It doesn't happen often -- the comfort/acceptance factor (and trusting in the relationship and that it is utterly solid and the person isn't going to reject me or abandon me for greener pastures) combined with the sense of a brain-connection-and-intuitive-understanding. I think similar to what Sky Is Blue was alluding to, it tends to be either there, or not there. With the types of connections I truly desire, no amount of 'work' will suddenly create that connection. (With the case of the INFJ, I knew it was there from the get-go, it's just we both were of the sort where we really weren't in a rush and I'm not one to mess with what I'd call 'natural' timeframes, dependent on the person, for opening up and connecting on an ever-deepening, more trusting, level as time goes on)

    I think I do understand the 'metaphorical boundaries', as I think that's kinda what my INFJ friend and I were dancing around those first few years, gradually pushing them farther in, probably both still 'deciding' whether or not it was going to go deeper or not (not that all of this was an *active* thought process at the time). I suppose if I really sense a possible connection with someone, and that someone is more shy than I (ha!!), I might be tempted to poke a little bit at the boundaries just to see whether they're receptive or not, but if not, it just means they're not ready yet and I'm cool with keeping it as-is a while longer.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  5. #5
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
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    As a sp/so, I wish for a close connection with someone, be it friendship or romantically. Trouble is, finding a close connection with people, at least where I come from, is rare at most. A lot of people that I've been friends with went off and did their own things, they don't live where they went to high school. Likewise, people I've went to college with, there were a few that I was close to, but I kind of didn't feel like I belonged in other people's social circles. Since I'm pretty much on my own (albeit still living with parents), I've learned to be self-sufficient. Self-preserving/social variant out of necessity. If I yearned to be in close relationships with others, then I'd set myself up for disappointment if the feeling wasn't mutual.

    But to answer your questions:
    Merging with others, what does it mean to you?
    Sharing common values, deep conversations, revealing your true self without judgment, feeling that tight bond between two people as if it is a knot joining your souls together.


    It's generally the Sx domain but how do non-Sx's have deep, emotive relationships where there is a tight, close bond with the other person?
    Other than being self-revealing without shame or guilt that the other person will judge you, there's the emotional vulnerability too, where you can share your deepest passions and flights of fantasy with the other person, and having them understand where you are coming from. I suppose a deep close bond with another person is enduring over time, they don't leave you because you're not good enough to be with them. You both can be yourself with each other.

    Do you even want that kind of connection?
    Yes, very much so. Unfortunately, it's rare to find. By necessity, I've had to be a bit more self-reliant and self-sufficient. Not everyone wants to be close to everyone. In school, I dealt with a lot of superficial relationships. Was difficult to merge with others... not sure why... maybe it was cos I was afraid of getting hurt (was bullied and teased in school), or it could be because I didn't quite fit in.

    And how can you achieve that (without alcohol)?
    Over time, knowing that I can put my trust in the other person, that being emotionally vulnerable with them won't end up with a knife in my back.

    Does it take initiation/pushing from the other person? How do you react to that?
    I need a bit of a push, yeah. I'm a bit afraid to open up. Sometimes if they push too much, I get scared and jump into my shell.

    Do you understand the metaphorical boundaries and stay the hell away or can you push them?
    I stay back. I understand boundaries and respect them fully. I don't want to push the envelope.

    Can you create a reciprocal relationship where you reveal as much as you give?
    As long as revealing something won't make me feel guilty about it later. I'm quite private and selective as to what I reveal to others.
    If so, how?
    If there aren't negative consequences that will bite me in the ass later on, then I'm quite upfront about how I feel about something to someone, and the major thing that helps is if I get a vibe from someone that they are trustworthy and won't hurt me later on. But I am very selective what I reveal to others. You have to draw the line somewhere. I just can't seem to let loose of my armor.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  6. #6
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I agree with a lot of what's been said here. And there are some people, like cascadeco said, with whom I just naturally feel close and safe, and want to open up. Other times, the process can be helped along by shared hardship. I remember becoming very close in a very short period of time to a guy I did a play in two-week rep with, because I was overwhelmed and vulnerable and he was caring and helpful. It made me open up and trust out of necessity, and it kinda felt good, to be honest.

    I need--NEED--a deep connection in a romantic situation. If I don't feel a deep emotional connection with you, I don't have feelings for you. I am not looking for a mindmate only. I have lots of friends that fit that bill. A mostly brain-connection leaves me feeling dissatisfied and lonely, even if the other person is thrilled to have found that connection. I need to feel like you feel like you can trust me with your concerns and fears, that you're not trying to hide them from me or put up a front. I'm fine with not going emotionally deep in a friendship, but it's a necessity for me if I'm going to date you. The more I see of your real insides, the more I will fall for you (if we're compatible).
    Something Witty

  7. #7
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    It's generally the Sx domain but how do non-Sx's have deep, emotive relationships where there is a tight, close bond with the other person?
    They're sexual relationships, for me. That doesn't happen as entirely with platonic relationships.

    Do you even want that kind of connection?
    No.

    And how can you achieve that (without alcohol)?
    It's an organic thing that just happens. In my life it has been rare but worth it when it happened. It's like watching a rose bloom in slow motion, or it's like maybe if you had multiple locks of multiple kinds and one by one they all unlocked in perfect sequence and you were released. Like orgasm but emotionally/mentally as well as physically, like the other person says things that are music to your ears or does things in a way that you just seem built to appreciate.

    Does it take initiation/pushing from the other person? How do you react to that?
    Better if there's no force.

    Do you understand the metaphorical boundaries and stay the hell away or can you push them?
    Younger me was all Pandora and had to see what happens when you push things open. Older me only wants what evolves because it has to, because it has a life of its own.

    Can you create a reciprocal relationship where you reveal as much as you give? If so, how?
    By paying careful attention to what feeds the other person and rewarding them whenever they feed you.

  8. #8
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    so/sp here.

    Merging with others, what does it mean to you?
    Cascadeco just took the words out of my mouth with this bit (bolded parts especially so):
    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    When I feel intensely connected to someone, all I can say is that I feel safe, I feel understood/accepted, I feel I can be fully open without being judged, and I feel I can have potentially differing opinions from the other, but we both respect that fact and aren't out to try to convince or change the other to our own way of being. I have written elsewhere that I tend not to be one who, even with close friends, really divulges much in terms of my personal life and feelings associated with it. So I'm not a terribly feely-emotive-conversation person. I think I'm more of an idea-philosophical-concept-conversation person. And, if I am able to have those sorts of discussions, and the discussions *flow* and keep going and there's no awkwardness and there seems to be an ***immediate understanding without having to explain too much in-depth, like our brains are connected***, then I deem that an excellent connection. It doesn't happen often -- the comfort/acceptance factor (and trusting in the relationship and that it is utterly solid and the person isn't going to reject me or abandon me for greener pastures) combined with the sense of a brain-connection-and-intuitive-understanding. I think similar to what Sky Is Blue was alluding to, it tends to be either there, or not there. With the types of connections I truly desire, no amount of 'work' will suddenly create that connection. (With the case of the INFJ, I knew it was there from the get-go, it's just we both were of the sort where we really weren't in a rush and I'm not one to mess with what I'd call 'natural' timeframes, dependent on the person, for opening up and connecting on an ever-deepening, more trusting, level as time goes on)
    It's generally the Sx domain but how do non-Sx's have deep, emotive relationships where there is a tight, close bond with the other person?
    See above.

    Do you even want that kind of connection?
    I definitely yearn for a deep connection and intense intimacy but for me this is something that is felt without the need for expressing or it, even say, across a crowded room - a strong bond that can be felt intently without the need to constantly afirm it.

    And how can you achieve that (without alcohol)?
    I have yet to experience a relationship, romantic or otherwise, that remotely comes close to the sort of bond I desire. I have felt connections but they have never been deep enough for me. All I can do is hope for a person that inspires the possiblity of acheiving that.

    Does it take initiation/pushing from the other person? How do you react to that?
    I would think so. I am definitely not an intitiator. I need and want to be gently nudged a little but I also need space and time to get to the place where I feel comfortable with that person. Of course too much pressure could really drive me away. The self preservation instinct kicks in and I would think its better to bail than deal with that.

    As an aside, I don't think I could even feel a bond without being pursued at least a little. I need the other person to want to be with me enough to go out of their way to do so. An "oh well, you seem nice enough" attitude will kick in my fears, doubts, and insecurities and I couldn't feel safe with that person. I'm all to used to my generally failing to inspire feelings of attachment in others - I need an escape from that.

    Do you understand the metaphorical boundaries and stay the hell away or can you push them?
    I am very sympathetic and respectful to the boundaries of others because I can be so difficult with mine. I would not get anywhere near them until I feel that other person trusts me enough to do so or if they give me a clear opening.

    Can you create a reciprocal relationship where you reveal as much as you give? If so, how?
    Sure. If I am made to feel completely safe with someone, I could imagine myself to be very open. Concealling so much is exhausting. I want to be around people with whom I feel safe to let down my guard with (at least a little).
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #9
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the responses guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    I'm fairly positive that I'm an sp/so. I can most definitely say that I do want that kind of a connection, it even seems to be in an "all or nothing" kind of way. But I can also say that I've never felt a desperate need to form such a connection, it's been more of a faint but constant yearning without falling into excess.
    That's how I'd describe it too, I'd really like to have that kind of connection, or more specifically be able to create that kind of connection with new people quickly when I like and click with them straight away but I just can't and I'm unsure if I'd even like it if I could. Doesn't take much for me to feel claustrophobic.


    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    And how can you achieve that (without alcohol)?

    dating an ENFJ with a HEAVY preference for SX interactions
    :eek:


    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    Merging with others, what does it mean to you?
    Sharing common values, deep conversations, revealing your true self without judgment, feeling that tight bond between two people as if it is a knot joining your souls together.
    Nice way of putting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousFeeling View Post
    If there aren't negative consequences that will bite me in the ass later on, then I'm quite upfront about how I feel about something to someone, and the major thing that helps is if I get a vibe from someone that they are trustworthy and won't hurt me later on. But I am very selective what I reveal to others. You have to draw the line somewhere. I just can't seem to let loose of my armor.
    That's how I'd put it myself, especially the last bit, I can be very open and reveal a lot about myself yet I never do so whole heartedly with full vulnerability and no armour, I do so either because I don't care about the response I get or I protect myself by preparing for a negative response. I really want to change that but it seems to be one of the most difficult things for me to change, it goes directly against who I am.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I need--NEED--a deep connection in a romantic situation. If I don't feel a deep emotional connection with you, I don't have feelings for you. I am not looking for a mindmate only. I have lots of friends that fit that bill. A mostly brain-connection leaves me feeling dissatisfied and lonely, even if the other person is thrilled to have found that connection. I need to feel like you feel like you can trust me with your concerns and fears, that you're not trying to hide them from me or put up a front. I'm fine with not going emotionally deep in a friendship, but it's a necessity for me if I'm going to date you. The more I see of your real insides, the more I will fall for you (if we're compatible).
    Is it a "it's there or it's not" kinda deal, as in effort can't create that kind of connection?



    So, anyone: What tips/tools would you suggest to attempt to push past personal barriers with letting your guard down?

  10. #10
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Well, I think it can sometimes be more of a personality/chemistry thing where the barriers are more naturally down. But it's definitely something that can be created. I naturally want to protect myself, but it doesn't mean I'm not capable or even excited to push past my natural inclination. In fact, I think that's one of the things I like most about being in a relationship--the idea of wanting this bond to be one that is deeper than the others in my life, so I'm more willing to answer questions completely openly, risking rejection. More willing to just kind of be out there and exposed. But it only works if the other person is willing to do the same.

    As far as the tips/tools, that's where I'm kind of stuck. I will sometimes make myself vulnerable first, telling about a fear or minor insecurity to show that I trust the other person, and to hopefully invite them to share stuff about themselves if they feel so inclined. Otherwise, I don't know, because I don't want to over-rely on that tactic, lest I seem needier or more insecure than I actually am. :-P I would love to hear others' thoughts.
    Something Witty

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