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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    then doesn't understand when people get mad at her.
    My mom has this problem, too, seriously; except instead of bullying she nags and pokes at people and tries to provoke them then acts like a victim when they get pissed.

    However, she seems to have developed more self-awareness in the past couple of years. I think between me and my three sisters we've worn her down into some kind of self-reflection FINALLY.

  2. #12
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Do you need to really reconnect in that SX way? I mean, I shut my mom out too for good after she essentially left my dad to rot but that doesn't mean I can't still superficially interact with her when the situation calls for it. From her perspective, she probably just sees an empty shell, since I don't give her any information about my life.



  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    ...
    She just tries to control my life, acts like a complete bitch, and gets offended when I stand up for myself. She is a bully to everyone (including me), and then doesn't understand when people get mad at her. She calls it "owning her truth," lol, it makes her sound like a sociopath. She "owned her truth" toward me and got what she had coming for her.
    I imagine the only real response is to say that each person has the right to "own their truth". It seems the best thing would be to drill down and break that by working down from that statement to each person's right to their own independence.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    ..

    Basically I am a very territorial person when it comes to my stuff and my house. I have an irrational fear of people coming into my room and seeing the things that I like, what I'm all about, etc. People that I don't want in there. Ever since I can remember she's reorganized my room when in wasn't to her liking, or it was too "cluttered" or "not organized enough." And then I'd tell her to not, every time, and she wouldn't change her ways. So when I got older and more independent, I'd get angrier and angrier when she did that. And every time she would, I'd lose something. That would piss me off a lot. It got to a point where I'd get more and more hostile toward her when she'd do that, and I'd purposefully hide some of her things from her just to show her how it felt to have your shit touched...
    It isn't irrational to want your own space. When people I care about bother me with things I try to get down to what is behind it with them. And then explain my view, what I want. That is all I have.

    I'm thinking that maybe it might help to think of your relationship with her. Rather than her thinking in general. That angle is a lot easier to control.

    I'm not sure about the sx thing, I might not even be sx dom, probably sp. But anyway, it seems you might need to take a hard stance and hope time heals and brings back a connection.

  4. #14
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Not sure how enneagram plays into this at the moment, I am getting some possible ideas however. But can I ask what Mbti type your mother is, Blackcat? I was assuming an Fe dominant type, either ESFJ or ENFJ; it's the only one that's really fitting so far.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    I really NEED to be on good terms with her, but I just can't bring myself to open up to her or care at all. She crossed a few lines after a good amount of warning, and I basically just "checked out" and never came back.
    Given time, you can be on good terms without letting someone back in to wound you again. Is your "need" a psychological one, or a practical one?

    She sounds like a typically overbearing SFJ mother who is having trouble letting you go. You need to establish some boundaries, communicate them, and don't allow her to trespass over them. This should be easier since you have your own place. Sometimes it helps if you script an interaction ahead of time and don't allow yourself to deviate from it. Yes, it feels stilted and it goes against your SX nature, but it makes the situation safer and easier to manage. If she starts to trample over them, tell her that her behaviour is unacceptable and ask her to leave. This is your space and your rules apply. Better yet, meet her on neutral ground which will make it easier for you to leave if there is any unpleasantness.

    And don't think you are being irrational or overreacting. I know exactly what it feels like when a parent consistently undermines you in order to maintain some kind of authority. People get into habits that are hard to break out of and she probably genuinely thinks she's being helpful. But her behaviour is self-serving and abusive and it's not something you have to put up with just because she's your mom. At the same time, cutting her out of your life completely should be a last resort, for your sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I typically do not do that -- or, what I mean, is that I can't permanently shut someone out if I sense they've repented / changed and are no longer the person they were. I can do it only as long as they are the person who betrayed/backstabbed me.

    Sometimes i hate that part of myself and I feel jealous of those who can just maintain the wall. There are people I really was hurt by, who I wanted to hate, but I just can't do it; later, after they had changed and were no longer the person who had hurt me... I couldn't keep the blockage in place.
    Yeah. I have the same problem.
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  6. #16
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Black Cat... I'd still be hard pressed to let my mother stay with me just because when you give her an inch she takes the whole parsec. Mine never went into my room to re-organize though, she's just an emotional hurricane that only takes when things are given and rarely gives back in return. Your situation reminds me of when I made my first attempt to do better with my mother and only got taken advantage of. I left 6 months after I moved in.

    Why is your mother living with you?
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  7. #17
    Magical BlackCat's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies, everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Given time, you can be on good terms without letting someone back in to wound you again. Is your "need" a psychological one, or a practical one?
    Practical.

    She sounds like a typically overbearing SFJ mother who is having trouble letting you go. You need to establish some boundaries, communicate them, and don't allow her to trespass over them. This should be easier since you have your own place. Sometimes it helps if you script an interaction ahead of time and don't allow yourself to deviate from it. Yes, it feels stilted and it goes against your SX nature, but it makes the situation safer and easier to manage. If she starts to trample over them, tell her that her behaviour is unacceptable and ask her to leave. This is your space and your rules apply. Better yet, meet her on neutral ground which will make it easier for you to leave if there is any unpleasantness.

    And don't think you are being irrational or overreacting. I know exactly what it feels like when a parent consistently undermines you in order to maintain some kind of authority. People get into habits that are hard to break out of and she probably genuinely thinks she's being helpful. But her behaviour is self-serving and abusive and it's not something you have to put up with just because she's your mom. At the same time, cutting her out of your life completely should be a last resort, for your sake.

    Yeah. I have the same problem.
    Yeah, you're right. I guess all I can do is have a casual relationship with her but not get too close. And I do need to give it time.

    This is just weird because it was basically the total opposite with my dad. He encouraged me to gain independence, he is totally not clingy at all, yeah (but he's an INTP). I was trying to do basically the same thing with my mom, respectfully gain a distance but maintain a healthy relationship. Meh.

    My mom is an ENFJ 1w2 sx/so by the way. I've gotten her to read up on the functions, enneagram, all that jazz.

    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Black Cat... I'd still be hard pressed to let my mother stay with me just because when you give her an inch she takes the whole parsec. Mine never went into my room to re-organize though, she's just an emotional hurricane that only takes when things are given and rarely gives back in return. Your situation reminds me of when I made my first attempt to do better with my mother and only got taken advantage of. I left 6 months after I moved in.

    Why is your mother living with you?
    Ohhh I meant just for a few nights. We tried moving out of state together; nearer to her family and where she grew up (and near to a city) and then I basically left because it sucked. So she has come to visit a couple of times since she has some business to attend to up here occasionally.
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  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    This is just weird because it was basically the total opposite with my dad. He encouraged me to gain independence, he is totally not clingy at all, yeah (but he's an INTP). I was trying to do basically the same thing with my mom, respectfully gain a distance but maintain a healthy relationship. Meh.
    Heh, well, YEAH, that's exactly how a textbook INTP would approach it. I give my kids lots of space too and refuse to meddle or make their decisions for them, no matter how close I would like to be with them; in terms of parenting, I realize my entire bent is towards making them autonomous, self-reliant, capable, and curious about life.

    There's also a gender skew in our society where the moms (who usually have to handle the hands-on child rearing from day one, taking care of a child's basic needs physically and later emotionally) sometimes bond more closely with the child and form part of their identities around that role, and have to necessarily and actively loosen the bond up as the child becomes older. It can be very difficult for some, depending on their personality.
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  9. #19
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Ohhh I meant just for a few nights. We tried moving out of state together; nearer to her family and where she grew up (and near to a city) and then I basically left because it sucked. So she has come to visit a couple of times since she has some business to attend to up here occasionally.
    I'd say there are the rules to follow or she doesn't have to come by. When the tears come, ignore them; when she has a fit, ensure she knows where the exit is. Don't show anger, don't show frustration, don't show sadness; give it matter of fact and leave it at that. It's what it took to train my mother, though she never has business anywhere near where I live now. It's rough and it is painful, I will not delude you on that; but it's your home and your life and she's only visiting, not in charge - not anymore.
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