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  1. #21
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Yeah, that's icky to me. It seems subversive, manipulative, and ultimately about you controlling them. I know you like to sugarcoat it and make it seem like this really beautiful thing, but I've seen people even now who use that as power and leverage against others.

    Even you refer to it as a challenge and that's just not the way to look at it from my POV. It's almost like racking up notches on bedposts.
    I don't sugarcoat anything. Free will is a big thing for me, and I learned a long time ago to wait till asked for help, and ask permission twice at least to poke around, coz otherwise it comes to bite you back in the ass.

    But I'm also not one for turning my back on others if they ask for my help. I admit that it's something you can easily take advantage of, other people's emotional vulnerability..but it's something I find despicable anyhow.

    Though I won't deny that it's a thrill and an egoboost to do this stuff, it's not why I do it. I do it coz I care. And, when I am able to help, I feel the genuine pride that any person who is succesful at their mission feels. I'm not going to appologize for that, and I do very much enjoy that guilt-free, but try to never do that at the expense of that person.


    Anycase, maybe a sx-dom Fe-user would be better suited at mulling over this issue with you
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  2. #22
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post

    Though I won't deny that it's a thrill and an egoboost to do this stuff, it's not why I do it. I do it coz I care. And, when I am able to help, I feel the genuine pride that any person who is succesful at their mission feels. I'm not going to appologize for that, and I do very much enjoy that guilt-free, but try to never do that at the expense of that person.


    Anycase, maybe a sx-dom Fe-user would be better suited at mulling over this issue with you
    See! We're people users.



  3. #23
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Haha Jock - That's funny about the hoops to jump through and the turtle shell people. Both descriptions are accurate to some extent!

  4. #24
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    I don't sugarcoat anything. Free will is a big thing for me, and I learned a long time ago to wait till asked for help, and ask permission twice at least to poke around, coz otherwise it comes to bite you back in the ass.
    I don't know...I don't get that impression from your posts. You feel like an exotic dancer in the champagne room to me. If that's your natural habitat and where you feel most comfortable then cool beans.

    I'll let wiki explain it, because it will do a better job than me:
    Dancers use props such as make-up, clothing, costumes, and appealing fragrances to complete their character and maintain their "front" while in the club. A customer often wants a dancer to "drop the act," which makes him feel special and desired. Dancers are aware of this customer desire for increased confidence, and will give off the impression that a customer is seeing their true selves. In reality often it is just part of the act. Customers rarely if ever see the preparation of these props since they are denied access to the backstage of a dancer's performance through the layout of the club.
    I think you're very purposeful and strategic in how you find your prey and how you attack. I don't think you take no for an answer and you find it offensive if someone rebuffs you and you will stay on them until they relent. And they do. But believe me, I don't hate on your skills and abilities. I half admire it and half aghast. I think that's power and I'm always fascinated by how people wield their power.

    Know what I mean?

    Though I won't deny that it's a thrill and an egoboost to do this stuff, it's not why I do it. I do it coz I care. And, when I am able to help, I feel the genuine pride that any person who is succesful at their mission feels. I'm not going to appologize for that, and I do very much enjoy that guilt-free, but try to never do that at the expense of that person.
    IDK know what to say to the "I do it because I care" part because that's a very nebulous area of intentions and motivations. I feel like if you like to help hurting people, there are a couple of people here that have struck me as needing someone to talk to and reaching out but I feel like they've been outcast and shunned even from the general forum population. I don't know how much the people in need also need to have a certain type code for help and caring to be offered because I've noticed a preference for "helping" people who do have certain types or can sustain entertaining sexual tension.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #25
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I don't know...I don't get that impression from your posts. You feel like an exotic dancer in the champagne room to me. If that's your natural habitat and where you feel most comfortable then cool beans.

    I'll let wiki explain it, because it will do a better job than me:


    I think you're very purposeful and strategic in how you find your prey and how you attack. I don't think you take no for an answer and you find it offensive if someone rebuffs you and you will stay on them until they relent. And they do. But believe me, I don't hate on your skills and abilities. I half admire it and half aghast. I think that's power and I'm always fascinated by how people wield their power.

    Know what I mean?

    This is my playful side. I've never made a secret out of it though that there's more to me than this. A lot more. I enjoy bantering, I enjoy putting up smokescreens and playing with those that are up for a game

    I'll also stop instantly if someone tells me they're not amused. I don't enjoy it if they don't. It's a game, afterall.


    IDK know what to say to the "I do it because I care" part because that's a very nebulous area of intentions and motivations. I feel like if you like to help hurting people, there are a couple of people here that have struck me as needing someone to talk to and reaching out but I feel like they've been outcast and shunned even from the general forum population. I don't know how much the people in need also need to have a certain type code for help and caring to be offered because I've noticed a preference for "helping" people who do have certain types or can sustain entertaining sexual tension.
    Really? You have insight into all the pm's I get, I know...I had no idea that you actually checked up on that. Not to mention my vent convo's. If you have...I'm not going to be happy. If you haven't..you have no clue who I talk to or why.

    When I contribute on the forum, and am not in a playful mood, I contribute to threads that are about something that I've experienced myself, or seen before. This happens to involve NTJs...a lot. However, I contribute equally to female posters' threads as I do to male ones. I also answer to threads that are posted by non-NTJs. In a very serious matter, without playing.

    Honestly, I might enjoy certain people more to play with, because there's more of an instant connection there, but I don't rebuff anyone that approaches me for an opinion or help. Ask around.

    /derail.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  6. #26
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'll guess I'm the salmon mousse, so get ready to start nibbling.
    I made another plate; it's in the fridge, so please enjoy as much as you wish!

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I know that I'm very crotchety about people invading my emotional space without me giving them permission to do so. I'm very sensitive to attempts and smack people back when they try, if I have not given them the go ahead. But once I give the go ahead, I'm pretty transparent and enjoy the intimacy.
    This is interesting and I relate to it - I especially get itchy when I sense someone trying to get a read on me, because I am used to being the one doing the reading. Not that I use that info for much; it generally stays inside me and becomes a reference point for that person in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I have come to realize I really don't like to deal with people who are like a boiling pot of spaghetti sauce popping and spilling and staining themselves over everyone. To me that indicates emotional instability. I'm not saying be stoic and hide how you feel because anyone who knows me, knows that's not what I'm about. I feel like when people force me into that position and role, I suddenly become your emotional guardian or custodian cleaning up behind you. I'm not really sure how to describe this, but I've discovered that annoys me and makes me not want to be around people whose MO is being constantly uncorked.
    Many people are careless with their emotions; they ooze and leak out like pus from an infected wound, spewing onto others like emotional vomit, and have no regard for the ill effects, to themselves or to others. I feel like a nurse in triage, trying to dress the wounds and treat the sick. Sorry if that sounds dramatic or self-righteous, but I do feel angered by those who do nothing to further their own emotional growth and expect others to either do it for them or do nothing and just hurt all the people around them with their brokenness.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Protean's description rang true for me, as did the 1 so/sx description. I think I'm warm, but I do want to reserve the right to welcome people into my space. Even online flirting that is harmless doesn't go over well with me unless I like the person and know them better. (Sort of an implied intimacy that I don't feel is there yet, which feels the same as someone being too touchy feely. The strange thing is that it really depends on how people approach it. It isn't strictly based on how long I've know them, or even what I think of their character etc. Maybe it's how naturally it comes to them as well? Don't know.). I thought what Protean said about the emotional pot bubbling sounded true for me too. I like emotion that is real and I am probably more comfortable than the average person in the face of extreme emotion. At the same time, I don't like it when people go around unnecessarily leaking emotion everywhere, regardless of how appropriate the person or venue they are leaking it on is. It almost seems over the top or false somehow rather than genuine.
    That resonates too, but I differ in that I am more protective of myself, even when close I suppose. People take energy from me, not deliver it to me, and I have historically attracted very needy people who take take take. I am much more guarded now about who I allow into the "inner sanctum" ... I used to try to save everyone, include everyone, help everyone. Now I try to be selective, discerning.

    @bold: I would word it the same way.

    Even entertaining - as a vocalist, I sense the audience takes my energy, and I resent that the transaction is more about them taking from me than giving anything back. The applause and "love" for you is about how you make them feel, and they want more and more of it, sucking it out like vampires.

    It's an unbalanced equation, sadly - not what I expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I see the things I want out of people, try to get them but if I don't jump through the hoops properly I get rebuffed. And then when we get what we want, there's some kind of implied exit strategy! "Well you got this far, now here are the rules now that you're in the club." It's a bit different with Sps, as they seem equally as closed off to me, but it's more like banging on the turtle shell and them just not wanting to come out.

    Just how it seems to me. I'm sure you guys find us to be people users. Like we get our fix and bolt.
    It's less about hoops and more about protection for me. Can I trust you? Will you betray me? Will you hurt me? Will you just be another taker? And yes, it does sometimes feel like people get what they need, are happy to take it and move on once the source is tapped out.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I think you're very purposeful and strategic in how you find your prey and how you attack. I don't think you take no for an answer and you find it offensive if someone rebuffs you and you will stay on them until they relent. And they do. But believe me, I don't hate on your skills and abilities. I half admire it and half aghast.
    Your words are powerful, protean; your candidness is very impressive and insightful too ... must reflect on this more.

    But on a personal note: I do feel Satine's sincerity here and sense her true desire to be helpful ... I see the game, understand what she means by that. I understand it will seem offensive to some.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #27
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Really? You have insight into all the pm's I get, I know...I had no idea that you actually checked up on that. Not to mention my vent convo's. If you have...I'm not going to be happy. If you haven't..you have no clue who I talk to or why.
    Hold THE FUCK up. I do not know how many times it's been stated to deaf ears that madmins have NO ACCESS TO PMs.

    You are treading dangerous waters with me this very moment. Do not blight my name with such accusations, because that's serious. There is a Madmin Constitution in that modbox that I have abided by from the day I was asked to be a mod. Do not defame my character in that manner. But I guess I hit a nerve so you had to hit a nerve with me. Fair.

    If you think you move under the cover of darkness and that people don't blatantly see how you operate then you're deluding yourself. I don't need to read PMs (which I can't) or go to vent. I can count on my two hands the amount of times I've been in Vent over the last year and IIRC you barely speak, or rather you speak only with certain people privately so you can get your (and their) intimacy juices flowing. That in of itself, speaks volumes.

    I'm a Fe-dom, I notice this stuff in my sleep.

    I've had much more important things happen in my life over the last year then to even check up on you or anyone to that extent. What I see goes on in-thread where anyone can see and it has been seen.

    When I contribute on the forum, and am not in a playful mood, I contribute to threads that are about something that I've experienced myself, or seen before. This happens to involve NTJs...a lot. However, I contribute equally to female posters' threads as I do to male ones. I also answer to threads that are posted by non-NTJs. In a very serious matter, without playing.

    Honestly, I might enjoy certain people more to play with, because there's more of an instant connection there, but I don't rebuff anyone that approaches me for an opinion or help. Ask around.

    /derail.
    OK. You keep saying "play" over and over again. I don't "play" with people like that. I don't understand why you keep using that word or the way in which you mean it. Perhaps you could respond in the sx-dom thread?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #28
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    See! We're people users.
    How about I use you a bit? Feel free to return the favor...




    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #29
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    If you think you move under the cover of darkness and that people don't blatantly see how you operate then you're deluding yourself. I don't need to read PMs (which I can't) or go to vent. I can count on my two hands the amount of times I've been in Vent over the last year and IIRC you barely speak, or rather you speak only with certain people privately so you can get your (and their) intimacy juices flowing. That in of itself, speaks volumes.

    I'm a Fe-dom, I notice this stuff in my sleep.
    I'm not even in here to address specific people, just thought I'd chime in and say that, although I'm not Fe-dom, I do definitely pick up on, and pay attention to, the various forum nuances and group undercurrents/'cliques'/patterns, so I kinda know who's buddy-buddy, and so on, so I know I pick up on similar things, protean. It's not rocket science, really.

    sp/so here, by the way. lol.
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  10. #30
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Oooooh let's not get too testy in my thread please. I like harmony and a party with this kind of tension will require me to use lots of energy to re-establish a light-hearted timbre and tone.

    K yes, I am not in the buddy-buddy group either ... I am not a big part of the social undercurrents nor am I super-popular. But let's not make this thread about that please.

    I think what I am seeing is that the Sx people really gravitate to each other ... their energy really attracts on some sub-conscious level.

    I do feel the pull of that kind of energy, but never seem to be able to get in on it.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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