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  1. #171
    Self sustaining supernova Zoom's Avatar
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    Dear lady it took a bit of time to read through the whole thread. Very involved posts, and I'm late.

    5w4, sp/sx, with the wings both between 70-80%, with a distinct tugging sensation.

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  3. #173
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think a public service message should apply to ANY type of person, thank you very much. It's not what we are per se, it's our own personal morality and how we treat others that determines whether or not we end up abusing or taking advantage of other people. Anyone of any type in any system can be dangerous in relationships.

    I think if you sense someone pushing past your boundaries and they're not responding to any pushback you're giving them, then you need to slam them to a halt and put the blast doors in place, all typing aside.
    This is true, but it seems Sx doms by the typological classification seek intimate/intense bonding and knowledge moreso than the other subtypes. And personal ethics and empathy can take a while to develop, I think personal ethics in most people develop with growing empathy and/or understanding about the impact our actions have on others. And some people just don't care as much compared to others to begin with. I guess I never realized that you could really want "intimacy" or to know intimate details about people but otherwise not really give a flip about them.

    So just to clarify, when I said 'vampiric' I didn't necessarily mean emotionally vampiric. I meant it more to highlight the very 1 sided nature of the 'transaction'.

    Again, I'm also some kind of SX dom myself, I actually scored SX on a (paid, bah, yeah I paid for it) E test so I understand the desire and thrill for and from deep connection. I find nothing wrong with getting deep and personal, per sae when it's consensual and there is transparency about what is going on (i.e. "being on the same page").

    I'm taken aback that some people don't seem to (and bear with me, this is cheesy) honor or respect that intimacy and trust. In a way it means nothing to them, it's more driven by intellectual curiosity or boredom or to fill some kind of need inside them etc. *and the other person doesn't know that*. Whether out of pure detached curiosity or intentional manipulation, the end effect is the same - scoring notches for each person you can "get". I really doubt if the other people in these imbalanced scenarios would have agreed to participate if they knew the Sx dom's (or okay, just other pushy person) actual motivations and investment in *them* the person and not just their apparent interest in gaining their trust and personal information.

    I feel like I've written about this a few times on the forum in different sub-forums in different threads - the idea of unintentionally misleading people and not owning responsibility when people feel hurt or duped or rejected when you move on and never had the intention of staying anyhow. Whether it's people thinking you are flirting with them or "like them" (like "that") or that you are "best friends" when you are only as detachedly interested in them as you are everyone else in the world.

    It's true, it's not endemic to just one type, but the phenomenon draws...disapproval? distaste? from me whenever I encounter it. And I judge it as an insider, not an outsider, because I feel like I understand the base instinct that would drive someone to want to "know" someone else intimately. I've always just considered it "an honor" and (again, cheesy, bear with me) something almost "sacred" when someone allows you to build a trust with them and "know them" whether it's a fleeting "ships passing in the night" thing to a lifelong bond. (BTW, I'm not SP, I'm SX/SO or SO/SX) So perhaps my comments do come off as judgement and more harsh. I'm just advocating for more responsible behavior and respect for the other people involved in the equation.

    And it's true, IRL regardless of type (because most people, I have no idea what their MBT or Enneagram is or even the color of their parachute ) if I feel people pushing at my front door and I am suspect about their *motivation* I get curt real fast. In the past, I have gotten downright irritated because I think "you have not EARNED this conversation from me (yet)/ you cannot mine information from me for your personal amusement/ this may not mean much to you but it means a lot to me/ I am not interested in forming this level of bond with you so access DENIED/ etc." I thought I was subtle but my friends (and people I've dated) have told me it's real obvious when I am purposely avoiding answering questions.

    Okay, sorry this is so "discursive" and not more articulate, it's been a long week and I was just popping in!
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

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    Johari/Nohari

  4. #174
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    CzeCze, I think you are describing an extreme and lumping us all into the bulk of it. You're also being careless in seemingly assuming that potentially contradictory feelings do not exist -- you don't have to be "curious" and "non-caring/planning to move on" nor do you have to be "non-curious" and "caring." It's a false dichotomy you are continuing to set up here, at our expense.

    There are predators within every type.
    Not everyone within a type is a predator.

    That's why I have an issue with what you are saying.

    It's true, it's not endemic to just one type, but the phenomenon draws...disapproval? distaste? from me whenever I encounter it. And I judge it as an insider, not an outsider, because I feel like I understand the base instinct that would drive someone to want to "know" someone else intimately. I've always just considered it "an honor" and (again, cheesy, bear with me) something almost "sacred" when someone allows you to build a trust with them and "know them" whether it's a fleeting "ships passing in the night" thing to a lifelong bond. (BTW, I'm not SP, I'm SX/SO or SO/SX) So perhaps my comments do come off as judgement and more harsh. I'm just advocating for more responsible behavior and respect for the other people involved in the equation.
    So do I. Hmmm. Gee, there's at least two SX'ers who think this way. Maybe there's more? So maybe your lumping a whole group together in how you talk about this isn't even accurate?

    Maybe other SX'ers should weigh in so that it's more clear that the type shouldn't be categorized as uncaring people completely interested in just their "one side of the transaction" and not about the other person.

    What you describe is more along the lines of psychopathology than the SX instinctual variant.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #175
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Getting close just for the notches? I'm usually the one not feeling respected in the end which is why I build up more defenses after each relationship. I'm after the connection, not the notches, and I'd be pissed if someone came to me looking for their next notch. Respect me or don't fucking touch me!
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I'm also some kind of SX dom myself,
    Really not sure where you're coming from in this thread. Maybe it's projection?
    Scoring "notches" is the last thing I could ever be accused of. I don't see anything in what anyone has said here, or in the type description, to suggest that SXers are manipulative users. Your assessment is without foundation. And it's impossible to enter into that intense sort of intimacy without cultivating empathy. Empathy is fundamental to understanding what makes others tick.

    the idea of unintentionally misleading people and not owning responsibility when people feel hurt or duped or rejected when you move on and never had the intention of staying anyhow. Whether it's people thinking you are flirting with them or "like them" (like "that") or that you are "best friends" when you are only as detachedly interested in them as you are everyone else in the world.

    It's true, it's not endemic to just one type, but the phenomenon draws...disapproval? distaste? from me whenever I encounter it
    Agree with you 100%. But that's not what we're talking about here. Not even close. It's the comments from the INTPs that you seem to take exception to. And yet we're far less likely than other types (ENFPs, say...) to make people think we have feelings for them when we don't. If anything, most often people are likely to consider us less invested than we really are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #177
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    I guess I wasn't as clear as I thought I was, my comments were not directed solely to SX doms or saying that I think SX's are all like {----}. I was using the specific to jump off into the general.

    However, yes there is definitely a danger in anyone who has an "intense desire to know" to be unethical or unfair to others if they get caught up in their own instincts/focus/desire. I think that principle is pretty universal and typology is meant to show you what your likely pitfalls and strengths are. And yes, there is the flip side of the negative extreme of being an SX dom or someone who wants to bond intensely, and that's to end up being too permissive and getting so caught up in the desire to know that you yourself end up feeling used/duped/disappointed.

    If the criticisms/dangers don't apply to you then there's no need to defend them. My basic point was that there *are* people who need to be more mindful and ethical in the way they relate to others, specifically in that they should be more respectful of the intimate access others give them and aware of how others who they share any kind of 'intimacy' with view it and their relationship. And yes, there are SX doms who

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    And it's impossible to enter into that intense sort of intimacy without cultivating empathy. Empathy is fundamental to understanding what makes others tick.
    Mmmm...I wonder if this is going to head into a discussion of what "empathy" is (I know, it's been done before with long debates on sympathy vs empathy). What I will say is normally I would agree with that above statement except what has crystallised for me from reading through some of these responses (and others on the forum) is that "intimacy" is not necessarily a 2 way equal relationship. Which is why 1 person may feel duped or hurt later. The above statement I agree with when both people have a similar intent. But, that's not always the case and being more clear helps. And, you can approach human nature with a very cold stance, poking and prodding and you may "understand" but not really *care*. You can gain intimate details about someone but not have reciprocity.


    Agree with you 100%. But that's not what we're talking about here. Not even close.
    I don't even know what we're all talking about now either.

    It's the comments from the XNTPs that you seem to take exception to.
    Fixed!

    I realize this is where I was very unclear, I was connecting in my head comments from other ENTPs in other parts of the forum about enjoying poking and prodding people purely for amusement and to get reactions out of them and/or in a detached way. I didn't realize this could actually be related to an Sx dom instinct as I had always related the Sx instinct to an instinct to *bond* (2 way in my mind), *empathy*, and the desire to relate.

    And yet we're far less likely than other types (ENFPs, say...) to make people think we have feelings for them when we don't. If anything, most often people are likely to consider us less invested than we really are.
    Agreed.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  8. #178
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Fixed!

    I realize this is where I was very unclear, I was connecting in my head comments from other ENTPs in other parts of the forum about enjoying poking and prodding people purely for amusement and to get reactions out of them and/or in a detached way. I didn't realize this could actually be related to an Sx dom instinct as I had always related the Sx instinct to an instinct to *bond* (2 way in my mind), *empathy*, and the desire to relate.
    Don't relate that as a Sx trait at all, pushing for reaction is a learning experience for ENTPs, sure there's often an element of amusement because we know exactly what we're doing but it's still educational, understanding how and why people react is interesting. How bristly one comes across when doing so, and/or how willing one is to hurt others in the process is usually linked to maturity (and tert Fe). I don't see instinctual stackings having an impact with that.

    I also don't see that same behaviour crossing over to INTPs often, and when it does mistyping often seems to be an issue to me.

    INTP sx's come across as more passionate than their non sx relatives to me but the merging that normally goes with sx doms appears to be in conflict with their INTPness so if it happens it's unseen to me. Sx doms generally strike me as reactive (how much depends on maturity) because of that passion, less detached than others of the same type, also something in conflict with the INTP personality. I don't see them as "abusing" those they get close too, I see them withdrawing because of their INTPness being in conflict with their sx-ness, which could end up with the other person feeling "used/duped/disappointed".

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Work on what exactly?
    If it's not your preference, it's not your preference, cupcake....far be it from me to force you into something you'd be..uncomfortable with

    True but I'm always wanting to work on something I'm weak with.

  10. #180
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Agree with you 100%. But that's not what we're talking about here. Not even close. It's the comments from the INTPs that you seem to take exception to. And yet we're far less likely than other types (ENFPs, say...) to make people think we have feelings for them when we don't. If anything, most often people are likely to consider us less invested than we really are.
    + 100.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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