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  1. #91
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    There is a weird attraction to other SX people.
    This is not always a good thing.
    Well, you know what it is... it's because both can meet each other's needs, like falling into each other's deep well.

    Unfortunately, as you say, this isn't necessarily a great thing... it can become obsessive and self-referential.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #92
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    It's not that people "can't handle my intensity." I've always thought that garbage was NF language for being too needy and unstable for most people so they drop you or you drop them out of frustration. Which is what I think SilkRoad was referring too.
    mkay. And I think the bolded is a typical T invalidation regarding another's feelings. I know you aren't necessarily speaking to me, but if someone misjudges and think my intensity is clingy or needy or unstable, then they are making a false assumption based on inadequate information. I personally see no reason to 'drop someone' just because they are intense. People are not so disposable to me. I think that when people back down from intensity, it's likely not because an NF is too unstable but that the person needing to back down does not have good facility with his/her boundaries, or the communication needed to assert his/her boundaries.

    For me, my sx nature manifests itself as the selfish desire to know the minds of others. To peel their minds apart and get inside, and to become part of their thoughts. But I'm rather selfish, as I'll do this and give the impression that maybe I'm here to stay forever but that's not guarantee. I'll leave once I'm done with you and I won't feel bad about it if you move out of my life. I also tend to be rather transparent with regards to details about my life or personality simply because such things are meaningless to me and I am not protective of them. I don't have to maintain some kind of distance to be "safe" from people. While I can be hurt, my response to pain is to simply sever the connection and move elsewhere, which I haven't had and wouldn't have a problem doing.
    I appreciate your explanation. I've felt this same way to a large degree, sometimes wanting to know the other person better, or sometimes wanting them to know me better. Sometimes I prefer to express my feelings physically with them, and have them know me emotionally, and sometimes I prefer to just share mutually non physically.

    I wonder if the bolded is really reflective of personality, or reflective of a reactionary behavior to some past hurt or emo baggage. I don't know why SX needs to be selfish at all. I'm not intending to be rude, I'm just trying to separate out the actual expression of SX from perhaps more personal issues. I can see the wanting to get inside others as being SX, and the not needing to feel safe to get close, but it seems to me the dropping people part and not giving a care is a bit off, and not necessarily SX. Would you care to elaborate more on that?
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  3. #93
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Perhaps, that explanation I quoted was specific to a 5 [I don't know what you are] and the explanation I gave was just how it works for me. Personally I've found it difficult to separate aspects of the variants from the type fixations. Knowing if something was the result of sp instinct vs. general type 5 protectiveness and disassociation was difficult.

    Again, this is just for me, but I'm attuned to the qualities of the connection I have with people, not that specific person. I don't value the person per se, I value the connection. And that connection can typically come from anyone. Is that sx? The desire for the connection might be, but perhaps the dehumanizing part is something else. I don't think it's emotional baggage though. My upbringing was remarkably normal.



  4. #94
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Perhaps, that explanation I quoted was specific to a 5 [I don't know what you are] and the explanation I gave was just how it works for me. Personally I've found it difficult to separate aspects of the variants from the type fixations. Knowing if something was the result of sp instinct vs. general type 5 protectiveness and disassociation was difficult.

    Again, this is just for me, but I'm attuned to the qualities of the connection I have with people, not that specific person. I don't value the person per se, I value the connection. And that connection can typically come from anyone. Is that sx? The desire for the connection might be, but perhaps the dehumanizing part is something else. I don't think it's emotional baggage though. My upbringing was remarkably normal.

    Interesting. Maybe this reflects the difference in SX dom for T and F types. I care a lot about the person. When you say attuned to the qualities of the connection can you be more specific? I'm not sure I notice that as much, as just using whatever means is necessary to connect to a particular person. But it seems very dependent on the person for me. Like I don't think I can connect with just anyone, unless that person has a certain something that I haven't figured out yet....maybe it's SX or maybe it's something else. I'm new to this so I'm still hashing through it all.

    I still think your ability to move on and not really care about that person is odd, as in unhealthy. Just because you are a T or e 5 or whatever, doesn't seem like a good excuse to be able to throw someone away without feeling remorse. Maybe you mean something different than I'm interpreting. Maybe you mean just the natural moving on that occurs once you explore someone and the thrill is gone. haha. Or maybe you have some affective disorder. I'm just flinging some shit at you but srsly, should that really be accepted as normal and okay--or is that some sort of dysfunction?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  5. #95
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Interesting. Maybe this reflects the difference in SX dom for T and F types. I care a lot about the person. When you say attuned to the qualities of the connection can you be more specific? I'm not sure I notice that as much, as just using whatever means is necessary to connect to a particular person. But it seems very dependent on the person for me. Like I don't think I can connect with just anyone, unless that person has a certain something that I haven't figured out yet....maybe it's SX or maybe it's something else. I'm new to this so I'm still hashing through it all.
    Maybe. I'm not that great with enneagram either. And I certainly don't think these things work in isolation. When I say attuned to the qualities of the connection, I mean that I desire a certain type of information exchange, expression, and energy from the other person. I'm not really interested in the details of the person so much as I am interested in the manner we interact. I actually think we're describing the same thing here, but with T and F flavors. You emphasize the personal qualities, I do not.

    I still think your ability to move on and not really care about that person is odd, as in unhealthy. Just because you are a T or e 5 or whatever, doesn't seem like a good excuse to be able to throw someone away without feeling remorse. Maybe you mean something different than I'm interpreting. Maybe you mean just the natural moving on that occurs once you explore someone and the thrill is gone. haha. Or maybe you have some affective disorder. I'm just flinging some shit at you but srsly, should that really be accepted as normal and okay--or is that some sort of dysfunction?
    Yeah, I've gotten that before. And my family has brought it up as an issue. I'm not really making an excuse though. It's just what I do, and have done before. I've told this story a bunch of times so it's probably starting to get old, but I had a best childhood friend for like 10 years, and the moment we went to different high schools...I never really bothered seeing him again. Found new friends and people. It sent him to therapy and everything, my mom told me as she tried to guilt me into seeing him again.

    It doesn't affect my life in a real negative manner, so I'm not sure if it's a disorder. I may not be able to hold on to people well, but I don't really need to either.



  6. #96
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Yeah, I've gotten that before. And my family has brought it up as an issue. I'm not really making an excuse though. It's just what I do, and have done before. I've told this story a bunch of times so it's probably starting to get old, but I had a best childhood friend for like 10 years, and the moment we went to different high schools...I never really bothered seeing him again. Found new friends and people. It sent him to therapy and everything, my mom told me as she tried to guilt me into seeing him again.
    How'd he feel about it? Did he have the same feeling you did?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #97
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Maybe. I'm not that great with enneagram either. And I certainly don't think these things work in isolation. When I say attuned to the qualities of the connection, I mean that I desire a certain type of information exchange, expression, and energy from the other person. I'm not really interested in the details of the person so much as I am interested in the manner we interact. I actually think we're describing the same thing here, but with T and F flavors. You emphasize the personal qualities, I do not.
    Hmmm......I like it when we (lol like general 'we') can talk about things that you don't normally talk about in normal conversations, like skipping the small talk and going deeper, joking, talking about subjects you would normally be reticent to discuss. It's not often you can find someone who is willing to do this, in my experience. So my criteria is that the person can do this. But when I interact, I start to attach as well. Maybe that is where the difference lies. Maybe you don't do the attachment part, therefore you don't really ever detach, whereas the other person might perceive it as such for his/herself. But, yeah, I don't care generally what the person likes/dislikes/looks like, etc., but it does matter that they can connect with me in this way most of all. So I guess it is the same.



    Yeah, I've gotten that before. And my family has brought it up as an issue. I'm not really making an excuse though. It's just what I do, and have done before. I've told this story a bunch of times so it's probably starting to get old, but I had a best childhood friend for like 10 years, and the moment we went to different high schools...I never really bothered seeing him again. Found new friends and people. It sent him to therapy and everything, my mom told me as she tried to guilt me into seeing him again.

    It doesn't affect my life in a real negative manner, so I'm not sure if it's a disorder. I may not be able to hold on to people well, but I don't really need to either.
    This makes me laugh for some reason, isn't that horrible? Just the way you describe this with such detachedness strikes me as ironic or something. Poor friend. haha. I wish I had some of that gene or whatever. Twould make my life easier, surely.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #98
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    How'd he feel about it? Did he have the same feeling you did?
    No, he actually did get really depressed and go into therapy. Apparently came out that a lot of his pain was derived from us going to different schools and the demise of our friendship.

    So he did not take it well. Not sure what he's like now though. Family has seen him around town and say to me, "He looks like he's doing well!" to which I have no response. Okay, great?



  9. #99
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    No, he actually did get really depressed and go into therapy. Apparently came out that a lot of his pain was derived from us going to different schools and the demise of our friendship.

    So he did not take it well. Not sure what he's like now though. Family has seen him around town and say to me, "He looks like he's doing well!" to which I have no response. Okay, great?
    Okay. I just wanted to ask because the INTP-style part of me (vs the SX aspect) very much is capable, especially with other INTPs, of being in intense conversations and deep sharing, yet then separating and not seeing other for long periods of time without much distress or desire to get together even if we had loved being together. SP tendencies make it difficult to extend past the borders of the daily structure if it takes an energy investment.

    And then as soon as we are within proximity again, it's like we never left.

    I think it's rather like creating a model of the other person inside of you -- you know how they think and how they would respond and "who they are" -- and so even if you are not around each other, it's not like they're really gone per se.

    I thought perhaps if your friend was okay with it, then it could be something like this, but it sounds like he took it much differently.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #100
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have to say I'd actually be a bit hesitant if he ever contacted me and wanted to hang out again. Like you I think I can do that same thing, but having known how it affected him I feel like he's delicate and I'd break him again or something. Very puzzling.



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