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  1. #11
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    isfp 6w7 sp/sx, i think.

    i think 6w7 in general makes enough sense regardless of subtype.

  2. #12
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    OK so I'm starting to see that primary self-preservation seems to imply a person is orderly, organized and efficient in some form. To me this signals a very J-like quality and yet some of you that said you are sp are perceivers. Have any of you self-preservationists felt confused as to whether you are a J or P? I'm not seeking to undermine your typing, I just want to know if you have felt internal conflict over this and whether knowing your enneagram subtype helps to clear this up.

    I may be reading into all this too much but it might explain my weird introvert/extrovert conflict. I'm certain that I'm an INFP 4w5 and, when I think of it, it seems impossible that I could be an extrovert as I am rather withdrawn and antisocial in general. However, I am probably more talkative and outgoing than the average INFP and, I would imagine, certainly much more than most 4w5s. A so/sp stacking could really explain that push-pull factor in my instincts.

    Thoughts?

  3. #13
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    i'm not orderly in the sense that i need organize or control a lot if that's what you mean. i couldn't achieve any of that in a "J-like" way. i just like a comfortable space. and as far as outside goes, i don't like being around potentially screwed up or dangerous things. at times i'll respond to that in a "counterphobic" way.. some 6's and 9's, i believe, start acting aggressive like 8's if they do this. but it's not out of a need for organizing or domination.

  4. #14
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    OK so I'm starting to see that primary self-preservation seems to imply a person is orderly, organized and efficient in some form. To me this signals a very J-like quality and yet some of you that said you are sp are perceivers. Have any of you self-preservationists felt confused as to whether you are a J or P? I'm not seeking to undermine your typing, I just want to know if you have felt internal conflict over this and whether knowing your enneagram subtype helps to clear this up.
    It's about being organized in the things that are important to me. My table is a mess at work most of the time with paper stacked haphazardly but if the cleaner moves one of my origami, I notice straight away. Similarly the drawers in my room are usually overflowing with stuff I just chuck in there to keep the floor clear. But my bookshelf is meticulously organized alphabetically by author and series (important for Fantasy/Sci-Fi stuff of course).

    INFPs do have Te. It's just that Fi feels that most of the time I shouldn't devote the time to be organized/efficient if it's a trivial matter and that time should be spent in more interesting pursuits
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
    Likes annisaridhani liked this post

  5. #15
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    I am 5w6 sp/sx, INTJ, and a fairly strong J, so one more data point to support your theory. I don't know that much about enneagram, but I definitely relate to this variant of 5 more than to the others, with sx/sp being a close second. There is information about the variants on the following thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...eply&p=1165376, as well as at Five Stacks - the enneagram ...info from the underground (see list on left for types other than 5).

    My first priority thus tends to be alone time, freedom from distractions, security in my home and personal environment, having everything I need easily accessible and arranged to my liking. My second preference is deep, intimate, even intense connections with a very few people. One-on-one interactions are usually ideal. The so (social) variant is barely on the map, so I dislike and avoid crowds, casual relationships, superficial social encounters, etc. I'm not sure what to do with this information, though, other than just to recognize it as familiar and accurate. I've known most of this before I learned about how enneagram categorizes it all.

    In my limited understanding, the variants, like the wings, add another layer of differentiation, something MBTI lacks. One is first a 5, for instance, and all 5's will have certain things in common. Among 5's, those with 4 wing can be differentiated from those with 6. Then comes the variants. These can either reinforce the tendency of the main type (sp reinforces the 5 tendency for detachment and privacy), or mitigate it (so, especially with sx can make 5 more outwardly social and approachable).

    To make matters more confusing, or perhaps just more detailed and accurate (?), there is a notion called the trifix, that incorporates one's primary enneagram type in each of the other two areas (more precise terminology eludes me at present). This is described here: Enneagram Tritype. The premise is that each of us operates using each of the three centers: head, heart, and gut. While our main type will reflect our primary center, we also have a preferred mode within each of the other two centers. This seems a bit analogous to the idea in MBTI that everyone uses every function, just with varying degrees of comfort and skill.

  6. #16
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    - What is your type, wing and subtype?

    4w5, sx/sp (infp, IEI)

    it was fairly easy to determine type and wing, but took a long time to determine the correct subtype stacking for me.

    i'm very cause oriented, so i originally thought i was a social subtype, but then i realized that while courteous and participatory i'm not personally so much concerned about 'fitting in'. i also realized that i see groups more in the light of their individual members, and react more to components than to an overall picture... my way of working issues out in a group is one-on-one interaction in many cases, which also was a clue.

    i didn't initially think i was a sexual type because i am typically rather reserved and private...certainly not possessing a 'loud' , overt sexuality... but there are many ways to express a particular energy, and sometimes one description doesn't encompass what an individual would really identify with. i tend to not express jealousy much at all and look at competition as a lame, shallow thing, so i can say that there probably also was some rejection going on when i first read some descriptions of intimate subtypes (not to mention how a secondary self-preservation orientation muddies the water)...

    once i took a step back and just worked with undertones in a more impersonal manner, it was actually easy to figure out..well, with the help of various resources, of course. it's important to work with multiple viewpoints to get a broader sense of each variable.

    ah, nuts... i fit the description of the conflicted sp/sx too well in some ways. i admit it has always bothered me to read about the "tortured artist" type. but i guess a little self-loathing in a young four is not too uncommon, now is it?

    tl;dr

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.."
    -Oscar Wilde



  7. #17

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    The best fit for me is isfp 9w8 and sx/sp or sp/sx. In that link that Southern Kross posted I relate best to sx. In the stackings that Trinity posted I could go either way.

    I see sp as being more about maintaining physical security. A psychological comfort derived from your surroundings. Not necessarily keeping things in order, having a tendency towards closing loops as J seems to mean.

  8. #18
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    In my limited understanding, the variants, like the wings, add another layer of differentiation, something MBTI lacks. One is first a 5, for instance, and all 5's will have certain things in common. Among 5's, those with 4 wing can be differentiated from those with 6. Then comes the variants. These can either reinforce the tendency of the main type (sp reinforces the 5 tendency for detachment and privacy), or mitigate it (so, especially with sx can make 5 more outwardly social and approachable).
    Interesting. So a sp 5 will seem much more typical of the type in general where a so 5 might seem, on the surface, less obviously 5-like?

    To make matters more confusing, or perhaps just more detailed and accurate (?), there is a notion called the trifix, that incorporates one's primary enneagram type in each of the other two areas (more precise terminology eludes me at present). This is described here: Enneagram Tritype. The premise is that each of us operates using each of the three centers: head, heart, and gut. While our main type will reflect our primary center, we also have a preferred mode within each of the other two centers. This seems a bit analogous to the idea in MBTI that everyone uses every function, just with varying degrees of comfort and skill.
    That makes sense on an instinctive level. I have always had 2 other types feel rather familiar to me albeit in a less explicit and direct manner. I suppose I would be a 4-5-1.

    How exactly does your wing factor in on this? Is it seperate?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I see sp as being more about maintaining physical security. A psychological comfort derived from your surroundings. Not necessarily keeping things in order, having a tendency towards closing loops as J seems to mean.
    I wouldn't say it necessarily corrosponds one to one with J but perhaps indicates underlying tendencies that often exhibit as judging traits. Self-preservation implies a cautious and protective mindset which would lend itself to a more structured and ordered lifestyle. It wouldn't be inconceivable to say the 2 might be somewhat related.

    But I guess we'd have to see more statistics to see if any real patterns form.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I wouldn't say it necessarily corrosponds one to one with J but perhaps indicates underlying tendencies that often exhibit as judging traits. Self-preservation implies a cautious and protective mindset which would lend itself to a more structured and ordered lifestyle. It wouldn't be inconceivable to say the 2 might be somewhat related.

    But I guess we'd have to see more statistics to see if any real patterns form.
    It definitely sounds like they have things in common.

  10. #20
    Senior Member surgery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    I see sp as being more about maintaining physical security. A psychological comfort derived from your surroundings. Not necessarily keeping things in order, having a tendency towards closing loops as J seems to mean.
    Agreed. Additionally, Enneagram Central provides some helpful information about each subtype for each style of the Enneagram. I am an INFP Four So/Sp. I used to put a lot of thought into deciding my wing. However, after finding the information about the instinctual stackings, I saw how it could actually be skewing my self-analysis in terms of wing-theory. More specifically,
    The social instinct tends to give the personality a focus on being included, fitting in, or finding a way to make a valued contribution
    This is personally true. So, does it provide evidence for a Three-wing or discredit it, because my competitive drive and desire for recognition and status are just a result of this instinctual preference? On the other hand,
    Ironically, this type can be the most withdrawn of the Fours.
    They are also the most likely of the Fours to intellectualize their emotions and in this way resemble type Five.
    This suggests an inherent disposition in the So/Sp stacking towards a Five-wing.

    Either way, I realized that my instinctual need to build an identity that counteracts my sense of social shame is more consistent than either descriptions of the wings. Thus, I've decided that I don't resonate with one wing more heavily than the other. Ultimately, wing-theory is less helpful for personal growth because it don't target internal motivations, just arbitrary external behavior.

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