Eating Paleo

[Giggly]

I like the idea of this, but I don't understand why they don't eat dairy? I love dairy.

 

[Eilonwy]

In Paleolithic times, humans hadn't yet domesticated animals, so they didn't get milk from animals.

/Educated guess.

 

[baccheion]

Because a lot of people can't handle dairy, just like a lot of people suddenly can't handle gluten. So they decided to just eliminate it. Then after that, they made up some BS excuse, found some research that supported it, and were off to the races.

Maybe you could try the Mediterranean diet. That allows dairy in smaller portions.

By the way, what really matters is proper food combining (search for food combining), and portion sizing. If you combine food properly and eat the right portions of each thing, then you can get away with eating pretty much anything. If you are eating for fat loss (try low carb dieting), or for some special condition, then obviously the setup will be different, but if that's not the case then you are good to go. In most food combining literature, dairy is seen as a meal by itself, and as something that takes about 4 hours to digest, so you'd have to eat one form of dairy by itself (milk, cheese, etc), then not consume anything but water for the next 4 hours. The same is said about fruits. Fruits should be eaten by themselves, and at least 15-45 minutes (depending on the fruit) before another meal. So if you had milk, then 4 hours later you could have fruit, then 15-45 minutes later you could have the other thing you were planning on. This becomes complicated fast, and people are accustomed to eating certain things together, so they end up not being able to follow this plan.

 

[kelric]

I've been eating mostly paleo for almost a year now. Most people that I hear from / read about tend to be on one of two fronts... uber-zealots and the "100% paleo, 80% of the time" folks. I'm mostly in the latter. Frankly, the whole "paleolithic people didn't eat it, so neither should you" thing seems to me pretty corny and psuedo-scientific to me. But... the whole eating paleo thing meshes really, really well with "don't eat processed stuff and lots of sugar", which is what really matters, I think.

There's also the whole dairy/gluten thing. Like [MENTION=17495]CapLawyer[/MENTION] said, a significant number of people don't really handle dairy very well (as adults), and gluten falls into the same sort of category. If you believe the zealous folks, there's also a significant factor of increased-but-not-felt gut inflammation that comes from eating things like grains and that reducing that unseen inflammation can have a major effect on things like allergies, recovering from illness, etc. I'm not sure if I've seen that or not... it's almost impossible to quantify, especially on an individual level. But... I do generally feel better (of course, I've also gone from 195 lbs to 175 lbs, so I'm healthier in general, too).

Basically... if you want to try the whole paleo thing out, I do recommend it. When I started it, I did a 30-day, totally 100% paleo "whole 30" diet. Super-strict, with the idea that once it was over, I could add in things that weren't "compliant" to see how they made me feel. Turns out, after a month, I was pretty happy eating that way permanently. Now, I do "cheat" a few times a week. I went out for Indian last night, and I have a mini-loaf of chocolate-ship banana bread waiting for me in the kitchen to be slathered in some whole butter (this is even tastier than it sounds). If somebody brings donuts to work, I eat one (or two) - I shouldn't, but when you really get down to it, it matters a lot more how you eat 80% of the time.

If you try to eat paleo, you'll find that you eat a LOT less sugar (which is likely one of the best things about paleo diets), and a LOT more vegetables and fresh meats/eggs, and almost nothing processed. That combination is likely what's good about it. Who cares what the cavemen ate.

Hmm, I think that banana bread and butter is calling me.

 

[kyuuei]

Cavemen were opportunistic eaters, like any animal.

I think anything that makes you healthier without making you obsessed is a good thing. It can be very hard to stick with paleo stuff because paleo is very expensive, and obsessive about ingredients. It doesn't really work to eat 80/20 paleo in the way it was intended, because you're eating breads and dairy 20% of that time. It negates at 80% work basically. That doesn't mean it's not healthy, and it won't do a world of good.. but it is what it is.

I think if you have things like stomach problems, there are diets specifically made to cut out pretty much everything and slowly add it into your diet. There are people that, while not allergic to strawberries, found they were having IBS because of the histamine in foods like strawberries. Those are healthy foods that fit the paleo diet, but everyone is different.

Gluten has never been an issue for me, and I don't have upset and irritated stomach problems from it. What I did find was whole milk WAS stressing out my stomach.. and i didn't even know it until I switched to fat-free for my parents' sake. The lactose free milk actually is the best, but it's also expensive. You gotta know what your body is feeling. I am not at all lactose intolerant, I eat dairy every single day without issue. But certain things are harsh on the body.

Some people say sugar causes a lot of issues.. but I'd be a bitter, hateful person without sugars in my diet. You gotta judge a quality of life over these things too. Food cannot be an obsession. Eat to live, and enjoy what you do at the same time.

I think portion control, substitution dieting, and cooking a variety of foods is the key to being healthy. When you put just enough effort into it via cooking, you can really see the difference in things.

However, great guidelines to try and start out with: Japanese foods and Mediterranean foods. They're generally low in fat and sugar, high in flavor and presentation and portion control, with an emphasis on slow methodical eating.

 

[rav3n]

The reasoning for the lack of gluten in human diets, doesn't ring true. When our ancestors were nomadic, they still gathered. But I do agree that we didn't eat grains in the current quantity. On the other hand, we also didn't eat anything in the current quantities.

So if you wish to maintain or lose weight, eat less and exercise more.

 

[kelric]

I think anything that makes you healthier without making you obsessed is a good thing. It can be very hard to stick with paleo stuff because paleo is very expensive, and obsessive about ingredients. It doesn't really work to eat 80/20 paleo in the way it was intended, because you're eating breads and dairy 20% of that time. It negates at 80% work basically. That doesn't mean it's not healthy, and it won't do a world of good.. but it is what it is.

Good points -- especially about the expense, unfortunately. Expensive in both dollars and time. I spend a LOT more on food than I did prior to changing my diet, and that's including the fact that I used to eat out for lunch 5 times a week (I don't, now - I eat big homemade salads with veggies and seafood/chicken). I also spend probably 45 minutes a day in the kitchen.

I'm not quite sure I agree about the 80/20 thing... but I'm not certain I disagree, either. While I do splurge once a week on a mini-loaf of banana bread (which I admit, I likely shouldn't), for the most part, I don't buy anything from the grocery store that's "non-compliant", and I only eat out once a week, where I generally give myself free reign, within reason (last night was aloo mataar with rice - not paleo, but not pizza and Crispy Creme, either).

Honestly, a lot of the whole "100% paleo, 80% of the time" thing boils down to logistics and social pressures / convenience. You don't want to be the zealot nitpicking the crap out of your friends' restaurant choices, or refusing to eat 90% of what someone serves you in their home. If you're the sort who eats out with co-workers or clients, you don't want to be "that guy/woman" who's just a pain to deal with. Also, it gives you a little room to "slip" without having "failed". It might not be completely optimal, but practically, it's a LOT easier to stick with, and still gives you a lot of benefit - far more than trying for "perfection", failing, and falling back on less healthy eating as a matter of habit.

I think that almost all of the benefit from these sorts of things is simply sticking to *something* that gets you to adhere to minimizing processed foods and sugars, and preferably, eating high-nutrient foods like fresh/frozen vegetables, good meats, and fats.

 

[Udog]

I like the idea of this, but I don't understand why they don't eat dairy? I love dairy.

Maybe try the diet with smaller amounts of dairy? Caplawyer is right about dairy intolerance - a lot of people don't handle lactose or various milk proteins very well. Some have significant reactions, and some have more minor intolerances. You can try reducing the amounts of dairy, and if all goes well, slowly increase it. If your diet quits working or you start feeling worse, you know to back off a bit.

Lots of diary foods are healthy, though. You don't need to give up a healthy food that you love.

Some people say sugar causes a lot of issues.. but I'd be a bitter, hateful person without sugars in my diet. You gotta judge a quality of life over these things too. Food cannot be an obsession. Eat to live, and enjoy what you do at the same time.

Some people truly need a healthy dosage of carbs to function properly. Something like Paleo and Atkins usually are disasters for them.

 

[baccheion]

Some people truly need a healthy dosage of carbs to function properly. Something like Paleo and Atkins usually are disasters for them.

Yea, but how you get those carbs makes a huge difference. Usually, needing a lot of sugar (past mental addiction) is usually a sign that you are deficient in something.

 

[Giggly]

Enlightening. Thanks for all of your answers. Does dairy include eggs?

The reasoning for the lack of gluten in human diets, doesn't ring true. When our ancestors were nomadic, they still gathered. But I do agree that we didn't eat grains in the current quantity. On the other hand, we also didn't eat anything in the current quantities.

So if you wish to maintain or lose weight, eat less and exercise more.

I definitely don't want to lose weight, if anything I prefer to gain weight. I just like this idea of eating "clean".

 

[Udog]

For purposes of Paleo I don't know, but in general no. Dairy generally consists of milk-based products.

 

[kelric]

Enlightening. Thanks for all of your answers. Does dairy include eggs?

For purposes of Paleo I don't know, but in general no. Dairy generally consists of milk-based products.

Yeah, what Udog said. Often you'll hear them grouped together when people discuss diets, but really the only reason for that is that they're similar from the "I don't like to have animals die for me to eat" perspective.

And yes, paleo is really good for "clean eating" -- although there's a lot of food that's technically not "paleo" that can be "clean" too -- mostly I'm thinking of things like 100% whole grains, whole milk, etc.

 

[SD45T-2]

Does dairy include eggs?

I'm pretty sure you don't get them by milking birds, although I haven't actually tested personally.

 

[Lexicon]

I'm pretty sure you don't get them by milking birds, although I haven't actually tested personally.

"milking birds" ---- I immediately envision a big steel bucket of white bird excrement.
Then a tall cold glass of it.
Thank you for that.

 

[SD45T-2]

"milking birds" ---- I immediately envision a big steel bucket of white bird excrement.
Then a tall cold glass of it.
Thank you for that.

"Milking the pigeon" is an old expression for a fool's errand/exercise in futility, much like wild goose chase or snipe hunt.[/trivia]

 

[Lexicon]

"Milking the pigeon" is an old expression for a fool's errand/exercise in futility, much like wild goose chase or snipe hunt.[/trivia]

now I'm picturing vagrants attempting to accomplish this in an alleyway, for some reason..

/going to hell

 

[spirilis]

Beyond the dubious prediction of what paleolithic man actually ate, the argument I've heard in paleo and low-carb circles is that dairy elicits an impressive insulin response relative to the calories consumed. It's due to the composition of milk proteins, particularly whey, from what I recall. I don't think this applies to butter or cream though.

This can be problematic for folks trying to lose weight or who have insulin and/or blood sugar control issues. If you're trying to gain weight I'd think it would be a good thing. Have your dairy [MENTION=4398]Giggly[/MENTION]

 

[rav3n]

I definitely don't want to lose weight, if anything I prefer to gain weight. I just like this idea of eating "clean".

If you're focused on eating clean, then buy organic and cook everything at home from scratch. Forget processed or junk food. Even better, grow your own produce. Balance your diet, keeping portions reasonable (including dairy). Drink plenty of water. Exercise regularly. You'll be fine.

 

[kyuuei]

I'm not quite sure I agree about the 80/20 thing... but I'm not certain I disagree, either. While I do splurge once a week on a mini-loaf of banana bread (which I admit, I likely shouldn't), for the most part, I don't buy anything from the grocery store that's "non-compliant", and I only eat out once a week, where I generally give myself free reign, within reason (last night was aloo mataar with rice - not paleo, but not pizza and Crispy Creme, either).

Yeah, the point is.. if you're going to be a hard core die hard over your diet at all, you're not going to enjoy food. You're not getting the benefits you want to be seeking by occasionally eating grains. The premise is that grains are essentially slow, non-lethal poisons--throwing off hormones, and causing imbalance in the system. But that's not really practical at all. The truth is, it's impossible to be on a dedicated diet 100% of any sort and have a social life regarding food. This is okay for the major diets--diabetics, DASH, etc.--because it's easy to adjust for. Paleo not so much. So, saying you're not allowed to have dairy is .. sort of useless. If all you eat is cheese and yogurt, and everything else is paleo, you're still on track so far as I can tell. It's no more cheating than enjoying an occasional meal out with friends.

Maybe try the diet with smaller amounts of dairy? Caplawyer is right about dairy intolerance - a lot of people don't handle lactose or various milk proteins very well. Some have significant reactions, and some have more minor intolerances. You can try reducing the amounts of dairy, and if all goes well, slowly increase it. If your diet quits working or you start feeling worse, you know to back off a bit.

HEB, I don't know if ya'll have one, makes a GREAT milk called Mootopia. It's lactose free, and I happen to be an expert on how delicious milk is.. and that stuff tastes just like milk. The chocolate milk one is amazing too.

I think, Giggly, you should only be concerned about what you THINK is bothering you. If you're worried about health, lean paleo because it emphasizes clean eating, and off-set it with smaller portions of the regular stuff. You could still be paleo and have a dose of yogurt. They have pretty cheap yogurt making machines, you could make it with lactose free yogurt. My sister started feeling a LOT better when she went lactose free, even though she lacks intolerance.

Some people truly need a healthy dosage of carbs to function properly. Something like Paleo and Atkins usually are disasters for them.

I could NOT survive without carbs--they're a HUGE part of my diet. Studying 8+ hours a day sometimes and working out over an hour a day.. if I lacked carbs, I'd be crashing constantly. The problem is that carbs are a quick energy--skipping meals on accident is just not something you should do on Paleo-style diets. You NEED all of that slow-burning energy at regular intervals. For me? I eat fairly healthy, and put total garbage in my mouth when I need something that instant. A sweet roll with a fatty cream filling is like 300 calories, and it's EXACTLY what I need for 4 hours of studying. It's expanding, complex, filling, and lasts. When I'm just bumming around the house I don't really snack and all of that, but if I didn't have carbs, as sporadic as I eat, I'd be severely deficient in nutrients.

If you're focused on eating clean, then buy organic and cook everything at home from scratch. Forget processed or junk food. Even better, grow your own produce. Balance your diet, keeping portions reasonable (including dairy). Drink plenty of water. Exercise regularly. You'll be fine.

Another really good point. You can slowly walk down towards a paleo diet. Like start off with eating paleo for breakfast and snacks. Then work on lunch. Stepping down that way will let your body adjust to the lack of sugars it was getting too.

 

[Redbone]

I like the idea of this, but I don't understand why they don't eat dairy? I love dairy.

Because the consumption of dairy products, especially that of other species, is very unnatural. Only humans do it and only humans do it past the time of weaning. Mammals weren't made to consume milk for long periods and naturally stop producing lactase after a certain age. Some people are able to do it because a mutation appeared in herding cultures that enabled adults to retain lactase productions. I'm pretty sure that this gene is dominant but even when you look at the entire human population, the majority is normal lactose-intolerant versus the abnormal lactose-tolerant. I have no idea if this is their argument for it or not though.

I'm on a ketogenic diet right now myself. I'm doing it to combat the threat of diabetes and to lose weight from having to often take steroids. There's no way in hell I'd be able to eat like this indefinitely. Too restrictive and it wouldn't feel right. I do know that I will have to limit the amount of carbs I eat because I don't do well with large amounts of it.