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  1. #11
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    It's true carbohydrates provide energy for exercise. But you can also get carbohydrates from other sources which provide more nutrition/vitamins along with the carbs: fruit, whole grain, sweet potato, beans, etc.
    Most of these are either slower / harder to digest (beans) or have a lower caloric power per serving, so it's harder to reach a given level of calories.

    The point being, that if your profession or your hobbies require a large caloric intake, it makes sense to use pasta or bread or rice even though they do not provide other nutrients, since you have plenty of venues to obtain those others.
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  2. #12
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Very informative thread
    I really like cats and food.

  3. #13
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Most of these are either slower / harder to digest (beans) or have a lower caloric power per serving, so it's harder to reach a given level of calories.

    The point being, that if your profession or your hobbies require a large caloric intake, it makes sense to use pasta or bread or rice even though they do not provide other nutrients, since you have plenty of venues to obtain those others.
    Yeah for definite!

    When I'm going on a long grueling hiking or backpacking trip, I require a lot more carbs than normal. When my dad was working construction, in the winter he ate sooooo much food at every meal and snacks (finished off each day on the sofa with a giant bowl of ice cream) and still lost weight.

    But I would imagine that most people with free time to sit at their computers and post on this forum do not have that type of caloric demand.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    As for the original post @kyuuei, I'd say if you aren't struggling with weight or food intolerance then something like what you describe is probably overkill. If you are struggling with either of those, it may be worth it to try cutting out different things and evaluating to see if anything improves.

    I have a friend who lost 40lb using the "4-hr diet" - he knows there's not solid evidence backing it up, and thus refers to his diet as "pseudo-science" but he has followed it more or less religiously and seen results. My mom cut out refined carbs and saw her weight and "bad" cholesterol go down. Friends who have been having upset stomachs a lot have cut out wheat products and felt a lot better after. So I would guess that individuals metabolize differently and it's worth trying different things to see what makes the most sense.

    And talk to a nutritionist/dietitian if it's covered by your insurance.
    I was pretty much going to say this same thing. My friend is really limited on what she can eat that's deemed "healthy" because of a pituitary tumor. She's pretty well all vegan now because of it. Even at that, she can't eat everything that's classified as vegan because some stuff that others eat with no problems makes her really sick.


  5. #15
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    I don't necessarily put a lot of trust in it, because some of the longest living and healthiest people in the world live in places where a lot of bread or rice is consumed, along with veggies, beans and lentils, and fish.

    I think the Mediterranian diet and Japanese diets are the best diets in the world. However, some Indian people seem to live very long vibrant lives (usually yogis) with their vegetarian diet that includes dairy but not eggs.

    People who eat less meat, or who only eat fish and then an otherwise veg diet, tend to weigh less.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    Hi Kyuuei -- thought I'd chip in, as I finished a "whole 30" a few weeks ago, and more or less still follow it. From what I've read / been told, the idea is twofold. First, try and prevent huge swings in blood sugar. Hence the no sweets, and limiting or excluding foods with a high glycemic index. Second, eliminate things that have been shown to cause inflammation in the digestive tract. Now, this doesn't include things that *everybody* has trouble with -- it's more of a way to try and identify items that you may have minor issues with, but have become "normal" to you (so you're not at your best, but you can't tell until you cut them out and see how you feel). The idea is to get that "clean baseline" and then add stuff (like dairy, legumes, etc.) back in one at a time to see how you feel. I just haven't bothered to add stuff back in.
    The bolded is why it works. In pretty much every culture where people aren't absolutely huge, their sugar consumption is much lower, and if they do eat a lot of carbs it tends to be more whole grains.

    I really have gotten into dumb fights with paleo people on-line, since they seem to think grains are the devil, and to me they seem like right-wing anarcho-capitalist libertarians in their fanatical embrace of something that, compared with IRL evidence, doesn't seem to be true, since these people eating non-paleo diets are so slender, healthy, and living to be old in other countries.

    Just stop eating sugar and junk food, and eat less refined carbs.

    People in the U.S. also eat TONS of meat compared to most other parts of the world.

    I can understand cutting out things to see if you're allergic to them (wheat, dairy) if you really have a problem, but can't you just go to an allergist for that?

  7. #17
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    my opinion after a fair bit of casual research over the years:

    -processed food, refined carbs, etc = bad
    -junk food/fried food = really bad
    -way too much fat/sugar even from "healthy" foods = bad
    -therefore nuts, fruit, very sweet vegetables etc = good in moderation, bad in huge amounts
    -soy, dairy, meat = good in moderation, slightly bad in huge amounts
    -leafy greens = good in any amount
    -beans, other veggies = good, unless maybe it's the only thing you eat

    The whole gluten/wheat/dairy thing I think is dependent on whether you're sensitive to them. Some people are and don't know it, so it might be worth a shot for everyone to try eliminating them and see how they feel (I don't plan on bothering, myself), but I don't think they're at all unhealthy for people who aren't sensitive to them.
    -end of thread-

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    They're only empty if you have a very sedentary lifestyle.
    Exactly.

  9. #19
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    ... I think the Mediterranian diet and Japanese diets are the best diets in the world. .....

    People who eat less meat, or who only eat fish and then an otherwise veg diet, tend to weigh less.
    This I definitely agree with. I read this book a lady wrote called 'Why Japanese women never get old or fat' or something like that, and the five 'pillars' she used were basically the same everyone always preaches: portion control, low processed foods, more home cooked meals, and staple foods making up the bulk of the diet being versatile and healthy (in the book's case, fish, rice, vegetables, fruits, and tea) ..

    I've been on this case for a while, but I think (as I'm a licensed nutrition consultant, I should have a theory I stick with) as long as you follow the 5 basic health pillars (water, diet, exercise, sleep, and sun), you'll be fine health wise as you can possibly be yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    People in the U.S. also eat TONS of meat compared to most other parts of the world.

    I can understand cutting out things to see if you're allergic to them (wheat, dairy) if you really have a problem, but can't you just go to an allergist for that?
    We eat meat with every meal.. and to be honest, I don't really care about it so much, but my father thinks it unspeakable if we don't have meat in our meals. I have gotten us on the 'meatless dinner night' once a week, but I've been experimenting with recipes we can make that will incorporate less meat into the diet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    my opinion after a fair bit of casual research over the years:

    -processed food, refined carbs, etc = bad
    -junk food/fried food = really bad
    -way too much fat/sugar even from "healthy" foods = bad
    -therefore nuts, fruit, very sweet vegetables etc = good in moderation, bad in huge amounts
    -soy, dairy, meat = good in moderation, slightly bad in huge amounts
    -leafy greens = good in any amount
    -beans, other veggies = good, unless maybe it's the only thing you eat

    The whole gluten/wheat/dairy thing I think is dependent on whether you're sensitive to them. Some people are and don't know it, so it might be worth a shot for everyone to try eliminating them and see how they feel (I don't plan on bothering, myself), but I don't think they're at all unhealthy for people who aren't sensitive to them.
    Pretty cool scale you have there. Mine is way more lenient:
    - Burn more calories than you consume
    - Let yourself enjoy things every so often
    - Stick to a good diet so that you can do the last one
    - Make a conscious effort to eat the best ingredients you can afford (time and money wise)
    - If your favorite foods are unhealthy, experiment until you find a way to make them healthy
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  10. #20
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Oh I totally agree there. I don't really follow a diet, other than trying to eat more "real food" rather than very-processed food (and often failing, haha). I think that's probably the most important thing. Lots of variety (of real foods, anyway) always helps too.
    -end of thread-

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