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Backpacking Gear and Techniques

JAVO

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Backpacking (as in wilderness trekking away from civilization) is one of my main interests. I thought it would be fun to create a thread where general backpacking gear and techniques could be discussed. There are a few threads which do this already, but they're focused mostly on specific locations or trips.

As a start, here's a good example of how to go backpacking and not come back alive. Can you identify some of the mistakes made?

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwEQVc_Kb4"].[/YOUTUBE]
 

mavericknm

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Typing while watching so maybe I'll have comments later.

I wan't to get a hiking backpack. I know the whole, go to a store, try it on with some weight. I'm leaning to internal frame, with lots of straps for lashing but also side loading and sleeping bag compartment. Oh and lastly I'm kinda cheap and figure I can get more selection and better prices shopping online. How can I be pleased?

Comments:
Why risk the jump across the river? Why not build a bridge? You guys brought rope right? Why go in flooding season? I'm at 4:26... /facepalm.... you guys have rope! I saw that tarp. :O the axe wasn't yours? Looks like you had fun.
 

JAVO

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Typing while watching so maybe I'll have comments later.

I wan't to get a hiking backpack. I know the whole, go to a store, try it on with some weight. I'm leaning to internal frame, with lots of straps for lashing but also side loading and sleeping bag compartment. Oh and lastly I'm kinda cheap and figure I can get more selection and better prices shopping online. How can I be pleased?
That sounds like it would be a heavy pack to carry quite a load of heavy gear. I'd consider undergoing this process before buying a new pack:

making a list of all gear for a typical trip
weighing it on a digital scale in ounces or grams (spreadsheet is ideal for recording/totaling)
eliminate anything non-essential
see if you can find lighter alternatives for each piece of gear

Here is one person's approach, although keep in mind this is a company trying to sell gear:
http://gossamergear.com/wp/support/videos

Once you've lightened things to the point that your gear weighs around 15 pounds or less (not including food and water and fuel), consider packs with some type of internal frame support from these companies:
Mountain Laurel Designs
ULA
Gossamer Gear


Comments:
Why risk the jump across the river? Why not build a bridge? You guys brought rope right? Why go in flooding season? I'm at 4:26... /facepalm.... you guys have rope! I saw that tarp. :O the axe wasn't yours? Looks like you had fun.
Not my video, just thought it illustrated dangerous mistakes well. I doubt their tarp cordage could've supported a person. Typical load limit is around 150-200 lbs for tarp guylines. They "found" the axe at someone's unoccupied campsite.
 

mavericknm

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Yeah I was looking for something pretty hefty. Maybe a 2 day trip out in woods/winter area. I generally favor really durable stuff. I'm really mean to my equipment.

For the rope I think it would be possible to connect two people together making a loop between them. Additional loops for higher load limit as necessary to make sure people don't go floating away. However, I don't know the length. Otherwise, just having a rope act as a guy wire would help with balance.
 

gromit

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Ballpark how much do lightweight sleeping bags and (1-2 person) tents cost? I have a sleeping bag and a tent but they are bulky and I don't think I'd want to haul them around.
 

JAVO

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Yeah I was looking for something pretty hefty. Maybe a 2 day trip out in woods/winter area. I generally favor really durable stuff. I'm really mean to my equipment.
Then your equipment will be mean back to you. :)

For me, I don't see a need for durable gear unless there is combat, climbing, or heavy loads, or heavy bushwhacking involved. It's also possible to lighten up some by just not taking some things, but that depends on the what you take already and the goals of the trip. The best thing to do is to go into a store with as wide of a selection as possible and try on all of the packs with a load, preferably all of your actual gear. If you try to narrow it down based on someone else's idea of comfort, you might not investigate some good options. If you can find them cheaper online, buy them there, but preferably from a place like REI or EMS with a liberal return policy who might accept returns on obviously used gear. This is probably the only way you can be sure of fit without wasting money. I'd be straightforward and make a point to the salesperson that you likely won't buy there so that they don't waste their time. I returned a pair of 1 year old snowshoes I had tested out in the backyard several times for a full refund.

Ballpark how much do lightweight sleeping bags and (1-2 person) tents cost? I have a sleeping bag and a tent but they are bulky and I don't think I'd want to haul them around.
For bags, look for an "EN" rating. That's the only rating which has been empirically verified. Generally, due to metabolic rate differences, females need a bag rated 10-15 degrees F colder than men to be comfortable. A typical EN-rated 30F bag might only keep you comfortable down to 45F. To be comfortable down to freezing, you might need a 15F-rated bag. Here's an EN rating tag for a 25F bag which indicates the comfort limit is 36F for women:

ea_sleepbags20.jpg

(Source: http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/sleeping+bag+backpacking.html)

Down will be lighter, more compressible, and more expensive, but needs to be kept dry at all costs. A 15F or 0F down bag is about $240-$350, while synthetics can be found for around $100 sometimes. A synthetic bag this warm will take up lots of pack space though. Consider the down "fill power" also, which is the quality of the down. A 600 fp 0F down bag will be heavier and bulkier than a 800 fp 0F down bag, but cheaper. For example, my winter bag is a 0F Marmot Never Summer which is 650 down. It weighs 4 lbs, and I paid around $250 for it on sale. You may not need a bag that warm if you don't mind wearing all of your clothing to bed, including a coat, hat, and gloves.

Another option is to sew your own synthetic quilt. They're around 2 pounds and $100 for a kit. I did that and still use it sometimes. It's a little too drafty below 40F though.

The cheapest and lightest shelter is a tarp, around $100 and 1 pound. If you need bug or wind protection of a real tent, those run around $150-$280. Look at the options at www.tarptent.com for some examples, although there are plenty of other great manufacturers too. Another option is a Big Agnes Fly Creek 1, 2, or 3 person tent. Not much headroom though. I have an 8x10 foot silnylon tarp, and a few Tarptents, some of them for use with the whole family.
 

Fluffywolf

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That movie hurts my feelings.

Fucking destroyers. :D

Also, bright colors? Why are they hiking, not to see any wildlife obviously .:p

I went hikng for a week with nothing but a tiny tent and some military food supplies together with my dad when I was 8ish. There's something awesome about sitting in a camoflaged tent on a mountain side at 5am in the morning, during a misty sunrise and having a group of ~200 red deer trekking slowly past/around you.

I also found my smallest ever antler that week and I always carry it with me since, like a sort of luk charm. (It's a 3cm long antler with a diameter of 8 milimeter, the first antler of a roe deer. Very rare find in the wilds. :D )

Anyhow, to me, rule number 1 is respect the nature or stay the hell away. :p
 

JAVO

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There's an informative video on this page on ultralight gear and how to pack it. Remember that this is a gear manufacturer though. You don't really need all of that fancy, expensive feather-weight gear to carry a much lighter pack. Just by taking only the essential gear, it's fairly easy to get your base pack weight (all gear and pack, but no food, water, or fuel) down to around 15 pounds.

http://gossamergear.com/wp/support/videos
 

Antimony

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How to die: leave food out in Badger/Wolverine Country
 

Antimony

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Where do you keep food in polar bear country? Well, as well as grizzly?
 

JAVO

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Where do you keep food in polar bear country? Well, as well as grizzly?
In the other person's tent! :newwink:

If there are trees, the food can be hung from a branch which is about 20 feet off the ground. Keep the food at least 10 feet off the ground for black bears, 15 for taller grizzlies. The branch should be large enough to support the food, but too narrow and weak to support a bear. Black bears are excellent tree climbers. Brown bears (grizz) need ladder-like branches to climb. There are a number of ways to hang it. I like the PCT method:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8FXRJldcpE"].[/YOUTUBE]

There are also bear-resistant canisters which are required in many popular areas because the bears there have learned how to get food hanging from branches. These would also be necessary in polar bear country, since there are no trees. In grizzly or polar bear country, I'd keep food 200-500 yards from camp, and downwind. In black bear country, 100-200 yards is probably safe. In winter, I've slept with my food in an area which was recently a black bear sanctuary (no hunting), but the bears are rarely active in winter.

Another option is the Ursack, which is a slightly bear resistant bag which can be left tied to a tree or staked down.

Polar bears are the only bears for which humans are considered natural food source. :peepwall:
 

JAVO

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I like tarps, but I generally only use them when it's cold enough that the bugs won't annoy me, which tends to be around 50 F. In winter, I also often prefer a tent to block cold wind, and it's often necessary to block snow (unless using a bivy bag). As a teenager, I sometimes slept in a bivy bag made of two trash bags duct-taped together. Cold rain hitting me in the face at 4:00 am was a strangely pleasant sensation. A non-breathable bivy bag isn't a good idea though because it will cause perspiration to collect in the sleeping bag, making it heavier and colder. I usually use a Tarptent Moment now (without that unnecessary extra external pole):

mt-1.jpg


I've heard some good things about that TNF Tadpole tent. There are plenty of lighter options, but they're more money too. You probably only need a footprint if you're going to be pitching the tent on sharp rocky ground, or really hard, rough sites like what is found in many car campgrounds. It might be nice to use when car camping, but I wouldn't buy a special one. If you want a footprint, a piece of window insulating film works well and is cheap and light. Tyvek housewrap is much more durable, but heavier. Tarptent sells pieces for their tents which would probably work for your tent.

In my trash bag bivy days, I slept on the ground with no pad, even in winter. Now that I'm older and no longer invincible :)laugh:), I use an inflatable. A pad is important for insulation unless there are pine needles, grasses, or leaves which can be piled up underneath. Uninsulated air pads are fine in the summer when temps are around 60 F or above. Back sleepers will likely be fine with just a foam pad, like a Ridgerest. Everyone else will probably want to pay a lot more for a pad. I've tried several foam and inflatable pads, and the one I like best is the Exped Synmat UL7. I use the Downmat 7 in winter because it's even warmer, but heavier.

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ovZQr8XujQ"].[/YOUTUBE]
 

gromit

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Cool thanks for all the info. You refer to uninsulated air pads - are there insulated air pads too that are better for colder temperatures or something?

And yeah that tadpole seemed a bit heavy when I looked at the specs but seems like things get more expensive as you go down in weight.
 

gromit

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Another question, how much does your pack typically weigh? Is there a rule of thumb percentage of body weight that people can comfortably/safely carry?
 

JAVO

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Cool thanks for all the info. You refer to uninsulated air pads - are there insulated air pads too that are better for colder temperatures or something?

And yeah that tadpole seemed a bit heavy when I looked at the specs but seems like things get more expensive as you go down in weight.
You're welcome. There are both uninsulated and insulated air pads. Just check the specs on the pad. Also, the R-value will give you some idea of how well it insulates. On average snow, the average person needs a pad of R 5 to avoid losing heat through the pad. The Synmat UL7 above is R 3, and I expect to be comfortable on it down to around 25-30 F. This winter, I was warm enough on a R 5.9 pad and a 0 F mummy bag at around 15 F. I think I would have been fine down to 0 F, and -10 F by wearing my coat and mittens inside the bag. The downside of inflatables is that holes can be hard to find, especially at 2 am when half awake and cold. It might turn into a leaf, pine needle, or evergreen bough gathering excursion for emergency insulation. Below 0F, I plan to also bring a Ridgerest (foam pad) for additional and more reliable insulation from the ground (in addition to the Downmat 7 R 5.9 pad).

Another question, how much does your pack typically weigh? Is there a rule of thumb percentage of body weight that people can comfortably/safely carry?
My pack base weight (everything except food, water, and expendables like fuel) is usually around 10 lbs. For warm summer trips, it's around 7-8 lbs. For winter down to 0F, it's around 18 lbs. I'm not counting extra fun things I might bring like a larger SLR camera, video camera, lenses, and tripod.

I think the general rule of thumb is that if you're carrying more than 25% of your body weight, you're going to be really uncomfortable and fairly unstable. 10% is probably the barely noticeable value for most people. The best rule of thumb is: Go as light as possible while still being comfortable and having fun. :)
 
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