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Smaller home, fewer vehicles, more disposable income.

Magic Poriferan

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I'm pretty new to this whole thing of living alone in an apartment and having a job. I'm certainly discontented with my current situation and I've been thinking a lot about what to aim for. If I can progress, how would I rather be living than now?

As I look at what appears to be the norm for American ambitions, I see a lot of things that I don't like. What's really struck me are these two things: The enormity of the houses and the quantity of vehicles. You can add some other things, like the size of the yards, or the newness or gas consumption of said vehicles. What the result in that bothers me so much, is a total consumption of income. It seems to me that however large a person's or couple's income is, they will always expand the amount they invest in home and vehicle to scale. There are a few other kinds of massive investments, like property that isn't primary residence, various subscriptions to services, and so forth that strike me in a similar manner, but the house and vehicle is the most standard thing.

My INTJ brother and his SO live in Harrisburg like me and are making a combined income of at least $80,000 a year. I don't know exactly what it is, but it is at the very minimum that much ($100,000 would not surprise me). They are only two people and will not have children. But the have a house with 8 rooms, attic and basement, a decently sized yard with driveway and shed. While one has a job from home and the other has a job that can be reached by bike or bus, they own three automobiles, one of which is a titanic gas guzzling van. The best thing they do with their money is invest it in a huge plot of land in northern NY where they have been slowly turning virtual wilderness into a place with a house. That could potentially be really cool, but it's a big investment and a distant goal.

They are very anxious about money. They always act strapped for cash. I look at this, and I think about what it would be like if I were making $80,000 a year while still living in this apartment without a car. I'd have an absurd amount of disposable income, and you know what? I think I'd be happier than they are.

Now, I don't want to stay like this forever, especially since I want a spouse and even I think this place is way too tiny for two people. Also, for two people to have jobs that pay like that without even one car is pretty rare. But still, I see no reason to get anything more than a single bedroom apartment and one tiny, high gas mileage car, especially considering I probably won't have children (very important point). And even two people living in those conditions here or in Pittsburgh would still have a lot of disposable income at $80,000 to $100,000 annually. And it wouldn't stop there. I don't know how large our income would have to become before I'd be interested in making those investments, because really, would I appreciate passively having a big home, or a big yard, or the convenience of multiple cars, as much as I would appreciate all of that disposable income?

Think about it. Never again would I have to think about buying some food and suddenly changing my mind because its frivolous. I could have acai smoothies and lobster every damn day if I wanted. I could make my place an oven in the winter and freezer in the summer. I could travel to another country on a whim. And emergencies wouldn't seem so scary anymore, because I'd probably have the money to cover it. And there's just freedom that nagging question of whether or not you can make your recurring payments and how much will be left over. Wherever that point is, I'd sooner aspire to living like that than getting out of a small apartment.

I think people are missing out on a lot of indulgences in life this way. I think people are sort of imprisoning themselves in their own massive investments. The more I think about this, the better an idea it sounds like. The main question in it for me is if I can find an SO would be comfortable with it the way I am, or if I get stuck with someone who's into that whole big house, three car thing.

If you actually read this far, what do you think? Are you feeling me or do you still side with the more conventional view. The answer probably makes more sense if you also won't have kids, because I understand this idea is less realistic for those with children, though the concept is still applicable, it just starts at a much higher bar.

Also, how many people do you think have similar thoughts to mine? Am I actually pretty common, or really anomalous?
 

ubiquitous1

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I agree with you.:yes: For me, small living offers a better quality of life. However, it seems a lot of people prefer quantity over quality, probably because we are taught "bigger is better." However, there is a significant segment of the population that is bucking this trend, and with the "green" movement gaining in popularity, I expect to see this segment grow. You may be interested in checking out this book/forum regarding this topic.
 

1487610420

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Thalassa

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I am like you. I think having a big empty house and multiple vehicles is not only wasteful but entirely absurd if it means all of your money is going into mortgage, gas, and car payments, and you have little disposible income.

I used to know this couple who lived in a big house in a nice neighborhood in Las Vegas, and they drank shitty beer and ate cheap food.

WTF. I'd seriously rather live small and enjoy my life.

Everyone does with their money what they value the most, and I don't especially value status symbols for the sake of having status symbols. In fact, I think it's pretty fucking retarded.

On the other hand, if money were no object, I would have a big historical home - but that's because I have artistic interest in restoring a Victorian or Georgian mansion, and have had that interest since childhood.

However, I would not sacrifice my quality of life if my income was too low to buy/restore something like that and also live comfortably.

When people who make as much money as your relatives act strapped for cash, it seriously makes me want to puke or slap somebody - usually both.
 

Athenian200

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MP, I feel EXACTLY the way you do. I always feel a little bit sick when I think about how stupid it is for people to drive around a couple of those gas-guzzling vehicles, and live in a huge house, and then complain that they don't have any money. :doh:

I mean, I can understand worrying about status. I can understand wanting your kids to have a good life... but all of this seems excessive and wasteful. It's not necessary to go to those extremes. Sadly, I think that that standard of living will not be sustainable for much longer, the way our economy is going. People are going to be forced to figure out how to live within their means, and it's going to hurt. I think too many people have been living on debt.
 

rav3n

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There was mention of 8 rooms. Do you mean bedrooms? If not, that might be 4 bedrooms, two bathrooms, living room and dining room which isn't that large. If they plan to have children within the next few years, it would make sense to buy this size of home.

But I do agree that overextending yourself isn't practical. For sure, three vehicles for two individuals is too much particularly with the amount of income they're jointly earning. Now double their salary and we're talking another ballgame. Even then, while they can afford it, why have the third vehicle unless it's a bike or if they're into camping, an RV.
 

Thalassa

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He said they will not have children.

People like that are annoying because they live beyond their means , even when other people are acutely aware of just how much wealth those people actually have.

I just do not get that mindset, at all. But whatever.

I used to believe a lot of things I'm opposed to in American society were SJ, but more and more I'm realizing they're NTJ things too...like wanting status and power.

Poor SJs, gettin' a bad rap...but that's another thread.
 

Such Irony

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I also agree with the OP. I just want to make enough to live a comfortable existence and have enough extra entertainment expenses so I can freely pursue my interests (which are cheap anyway) and have enough to cover for emergencies without having to worry about being financially strapped.

I live alone so I don't need the huge house and multiple vehicles. I have a one bedroom apartment which suits me just fine. If I made more I'd probably upgrade to a two bedroom apartment but I don't even see a need to have a house, which alot of people use as a marker of financial success. I have one small compact car which I'm happy with. I just want something that runs and will take me from point A to point B. If more public transportation was available I'd seriously consider getting rid of the thing altogether. I'm not much of a trend follower, so I don't see the need to overhaul my wardrobe every few months. That saves alot of money. I rarely watch movies in the theatre. I usually wait until they are available on Netflix or rent it from the library for free.

I only make a modest income, about $25,000 a year but its enough for me to live comfortably. Besides my student loans, I don't have any debt to deal with.
 
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011235813

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Financial concerns aside, who wants to deal with the misery of having to take care of a huge house? Thanks, but no thanks.
 

rav3n

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Okay, so there are no children in the future. Any idea when they purchased the home? If it was purchased at the lowest real estate point during and post the sub-prime craziness, when people were being foreclosed, it might have been an excellent investment opportunity. Same goes for the non-residential property.

But since vehicles are substantially depreciating assets, not worth the initial cost (cash, loan or lease and interest), annual insurance and all maintenance costs. Get rid of one vehicle and their overextension might be partially alleviated.

Poor cash flow management.
 

Bamboo

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I work for estate sales and I regularly see huge homes stuffed - really packed - with so much that people don't use at all. I don't really understand this. People just accumulate.

I'm working on downsizing everything I own, in part because I just don't want stuff, and because I'm working on new living arrangements.

The "largest" things I own, relatively weighted by cost/weight/volume/importance are:

- car (i like cheap practical cars but may need something larger for work, i do most my own work to save a lot of $$$)
- tools and related storage items (generally heavy, need organization, take up space, important because I like them, used to make money, used to save money)
- clothing and storage items (bulky, need organization)
- bed
- furnishings (just need basics but comfort is important, i also like a lot of lighting)
- storage/desk/work space
- kitchen and bath
- computer
- cell phone
- toys: camera, bikes, etc. (bike(s) need storage space)

I can't think of much else I'd want. I don't want a lot of glitz and glam but I do want quality.

I'm also undergoing a "miniturization" process for my tools (and everything else) - a way to store them in less space and ideally in a way that makes them more portable. Better for work, better for moving, better for storage, means I need less space meaning less costs over my head.

Most importantly, the extra money goes toward the stuff I really want to do - wandering, trying new stuff, enjoying life. Not toward supporting some massive footprint I don't want to have anyway.
 

Magic Poriferan

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There was mention of 8 rooms. Do you mean bedrooms? If not, that might be 4 bedrooms, two bathrooms, living room and dining room which isn't that large. If they plan to have children within the next few years, it would make sense to buy this size of home.

I just mean 8 rooms, plus the basement and attic. I know that's not real big. I'm one of four kids, and my parents and three of us lived a while in a house of comparable size minus the attic. There was an even shorter period where my sister in-law and infant nephew lived there, too. For that case, the house was much too small. But when I visited after all of us moved out, it suddenly seemed so big. Nice, but excessive for only two people. I know that size of house is basically standard, but that's part of my point. I noted that kids make a big difference, but for those who don't have kids I hardly see the need for that to be commonplace.

But I do agree that overextending yourself isn't practical. For sure, three vehicles for two individuals is too much particularly with the amount of income they're jointly earning. Now double their salary and we're talking another ballgame. Even then, while they can afford it, why have the third vehicle unless it's a bike or if they're into camping, an RV.

I admit the van can be really convenient. The truck they inherited and perhaps they don't know how to sell it. :laugh: Before the truck they had two sedans, and after a rather long time they did sell one of those.

Okay, so there are no children in the future. Any idea when they purchased the home? If it was purchased at the lowest real estate point during and post the sub-prime craziness, when people were being foreclosed, it might have been an excellent investment opportunity. Same goes for the non-residential property.

I don't really know exactly when. It was before 2006, though. What's also odd is that it's my would-be sister in-law's home, which she got before she even met my brother. I'm pretty sure her dad helped her get it initially, I don't think she could have purchased it on her own. But when it only had one person in it, that's even stranger.

But since vehicles are substantially depreciating assets, not worth the initial cost (cash, loan or lease and interest), annual insurance and all maintenance costs. Get rid of one vehicle and their overextension might be partially alleviated.

Poor cash flow management.

I think I'll ask them if they're going to sell that truck.

Financial concerns aside, who wants to deal with the misery of having to take care of a huge house? Thanks, but no thanks.

This is topical as well, because the woman of the house groans often about having to clean the place and gnashes her teeth of its filth and dishevelment.
 

rav3n

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If the house was purchased in 2006, that's a scary time since it was during the boom. Wonder if they're upside down on their mortgage. If so, they can't sell unless the real estate market goes up. The first few years invested in a home with 10 - 25% down means that most of her mortgage payments went to paying the interest with barely any towards the principal.

Ouch. They're in a bad place. They should sell the truck and see if they can't get some kind of consolidation loan if they also have credit card and other debt.
 

Stigmata

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This is admittedly a pretty large assumption on my part here, but I think people that shell all their of money into developing this pseudo-lavish lifestyle by splurge spending are trying to attain that traditional, americanized ideology of success of having the big house, big cars, ect, and thus view their possessions of an extension of themselves and a testament to their ability and overall worth. It's all materialistic nonsense, and most of the time these people have given little thought as to whether this lifestyle is sustainable in the long-term.
 

IZthe411

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It's hard to peg everyone's situation to them being gluttons. A home is a great investment, and sometimes multiple cars are necessary. 3 seems excessive for 2 people, though.

There's usually other indicators that come along with the big crib and phat rides to give you an indication of someone who is materialistic.
 

Valiant

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Excess and waste are really not a nice things. I don't like tying myself up to things I can barely afford.
Like the sponge says, it's nicer to have a smaller place, just one or two cars, and indulge in good things rather than just waste it all on stuff you don't need.
 

Magic Poriferan

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Excess and waste are really not a nice things. I don't like tying myself up to things I can barely afford.
Like the sponge says, it's nicer to have a smaller place, just one or two cars, and indulge in good things rather than just waste it all on stuff you don't need.

Well, I probably would spend it on things that I don't need. But the key difference from the big house or the third car is that I would be spending it on something that I appreciate. It's one thing to go beyond necessity and into luxury. It's another thing to purchase things you appreciate too little to rationally want.
 

chachamaru

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I would do anything to live in a city with decent public transportation and get rid of our cars!!!

I want to live small, yet comfortably.
 

Serendipity

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We (five people) live in a four room apartment. Having a house with 8 rooms is really huge.

I haven't read the thread. - actually I did after a while.

If I had an income that large, I would invest it in building/growing/whatever a small company that sells whatever I do, hire an assistant to take care of most of the work for me: preferably from the middle east/asia - they're cheap and I could pay more than their market "win-win", and then relax around the globe and do things that I wish to do. Why I haven't yet: Bad self-confidence, don't "understand" the world, not sure of what to sell and depressed but other than that I should be able to do it within a year or two.

However, I've noticed that most people think like you but when they get the chance of having that little extra income, which isn't a Boom Bang here's the money - going from 11/hr to 150/hr, you'll have the cellphone already paying just earlier and then you have that car and you realize you want a bigger house cause you lived there so long and blah blah blah. Life happens, it puts you in a habit and suddenly you get just a tiny bit more money to spend, after a while you don't have time to spend it so why not put it into going somewhere where you can feel it just a tiny bit? Shopping on saturdays, random stuff, things you see: cool I accumulate stuff. I don't even notice that there's A LOT MORE STUFF but there's new stuff all the time so it feels like it always did. That thing you always wanted as a kid but never got etcetera.

there's a book I'd urge you to read; http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/

It's plain lovely.

Kills normalcy.
 
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