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Thread: Global warming

  1. #41
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how the Co2 goes about trapping the light in. Seems to me that if it keeps it in, it would keep it out.

    But I don't know. I've asked this question on a few other forums, asked literally dozens, maybe even over a hundred people, HOW THE FUCK IT DOES IT, and I get nothing but evasion.

    If no one gives me a proven answer to that I'm gonna ask Ivy to close the thread. It's already getting retarded.
    That's because the energy is not in the same form when it comes in as it is when it tries to leave. On the way in it's sunlight- on the way out it's infrared heat.

    Elementary, my dear Nocapszy.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  2. #42
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    ...

    I know dude.

    I'll restate my question so there's no confusion.

    By what chemical property does Co2 gas become a prism by which light can go in, but not out?

    Explain that to me.
    Lol, I have to laugh a little. Is your position you have to understand every tiny little detail about everything to believe in it? Do you not believe in E=mc^2 just because you do not know every little proof for it there is?

  3. #43
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet View Post
    Lol, I have to laugh a little. Is your position you have to understand every tiny little detail about everything to believe in it? Do you not believe in E=mc^2 just because you do not know every little proof for it there is?
    No fool, I need at least one. Since there are no events that can be directly attributed to the warming, that couldn't be blamed on something else, I'll ask for the basic chemical proof. That way, even though we've not experienced the effects just yet, we can be sure that it's not all farcical hoo-ha.

    Laugh all you want. I'm not the one asserting speculation as truth. Einstein's thing actually has proof. Lots of them.

    I'm asking you guys to educate me. If you can't, then that really doesn't bode well for you. It doesn't affect me at all.

    Is Ivy the only one who got that? Jeez... I thought it would be kind of obvious.
    we fukin won boys

  4. #44
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    That's because the energy is not in the same form when it comes in as it is when it tries to leave. On the way in it's sunlight- on the way out it's infrared heat.

    Elementary, my dear Nocapszy.
    Fair enough. Certainly some of it is light, but I guess that part gets out.

    But wait...

    If it's just heat, and not light anymore, it depends on daisy-chain transfer through molecules to escape, irrespective of the substance.
    we fukin won boys

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I'm asking you guys to educate me. If you can't, then that really doesn't bode well for you. It doesn't affect me at all.
    I can give you some education on the topic. Just as in life, in intellectual activities it is important to choose your battles. Not everything is equally important or interesting to discuss. Some things we can be very certain about, some things we are more uncertain about, and it is the uncertain stuff that is most interesting to discuss. The question you asked was a facts related question. It is not one of those things that are up for debate, because there is no uncertainty surrounding it, and then there isn't really too important to know all the details about how it works, but it is important to know what is its effect. It is important to know the big picture, but you do not need to know all the little details.

  6. #46
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I have to say, it didn't take long for me to confirm what I vaguely remembered from my geology courses with a cursory Google search. I think this thread has less to do with fact-finding and more to do with Nocapszy marking some intellectual territory (which is easier to do by exposing someone else's non-knowledge than by exhibiting your own knowledge).
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I'm asking you guys to educate me. If you can't, then that really doesn't bode well for you. It doesn't affect me at all.
    Google is your friend.

  8. #48
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    *yawn* damn you people for arguing in such an un-nice way while I was taking a nice long nap in preparation to respond!!! :steam:

    and so you wanted a simple explanation Nocap? I was prepared to give you a rather complex one if necissary!

    Greenhouse gasses trap the heat from the sunlight closer to the surface of the earth, this makes the surface temperature warmer, which makes water evaporate at a higher rate, putting more water vapor in the air. Water vapor is also a greenhouse gas, which traps in heat... the cycle repeats itself over and over, getting incrementally warmer each time.

    Why aren't we feeling this in most of the world? So far our oceans have been absorbing a good portion of the warmth that was added to the atmosphere and burying them thousands of feet below the surface (oceans, covering ~2/3 of the planet, are tricky things ) This heat will resurface again in the future when the deep ocean currents cycle up to the surface of the ocean. This is provided that the increased surface temperature of the earth really doesn't turn off the thermohaline circulation of the ocean and plunge the north atlantic back into a state of glaciation like in the movie Day After Tommorrow (though it would never happen that fast) - that scenario isn't as likely as the globe continuing to get hotter and the distribution of precipitation around the globe altering to make some of our most habitable regions inhabitable!

    that's the simple explanation of what could happen because of what does happen- if you want the complex one just tell me!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Fair enough. Certainly some of it is light, but I guess that part gets out.

    But wait...

    If it's just heat, and not light anymore, it depends on daisy-chain transfer through molecules to escape, irrespective of the substance.
    Here is a bit of thermal radiation/electromagnetic spectrum 101 for the non-knowledgeable person asking this question:

    As you probably know, the electromagnetic spectrum has a series of types of radiation with increasing frequency; radio, microwave, infrared, visible, UV, X-rays, gamma rays.

    This radiation can be produced by electric currents or other charge currents moving the right way, energy from excited states in molecules and atoms, thermal radiation, etc.

    Thermal radiation given off by all objects that can absorb some form of light. The total energy given off is proportional to the fourth power of the temperature from absolute zero, the area, and the amount the object absorbs light. The radiation has a shape kind of similar to a bell curve, with the peak frequency proportional to the temperature (so hotter objects glow infrared, red, yellow, etc. as the peak frquency gets higher and higher.), but all radiation is given out in higher amounts at higher temperatures. Sometimes, the fraction of incoming radiation absorbed/emitted changes with frequency, and some absorption is due to quantum effects, molecular excitations, radio receivers, chemical reactions, etc. rather than directly heating up the object.

    Energy from the sun is mostly coming in as visible light, as the peak radiation from the sun comes in this area of the spectrum, but at most earth temperatures the radiation will leave as infrared. Because the energy coming in from the sun balances with energy leaving the earth, it means more energy is leaving as infrared, but coming in as visible. The greenhouse gases absorb infrared radiation much more effectively than visible light. The temperature than goes higher until the energy flows balance again.


    As for effects: A lot of glaciers and ice sheets have been getting smaller over the past century, the north pole ice cap has apparently melted a few times in the past several decades when it used ot be much more completely frozen.

  10. #50
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet View Post
    I can give you some education on the topic. Just as in life, in intellectual activities it is important to choose your battles. Not everything is equally important or interesting to discuss. Some things we can be very certain about, some things we are more uncertain about, and it is the uncertain stuff that is most interesting to discuss. The question you asked was a facts related question. It is not one of those things that are up for debate, because there is no uncertainty surrounding it, and then there isn't really too important to know all the details about how it works, but it is important to know what is its effect. It is important to know the big picture, but you do not need to know all the little details.
    It's not about details dude.

    It's about logistics. If the logistics aren't there, it's not real.

    More accurately, if it's real there are logistics.

    You're right in that, to know a macrosystem exists, we needn't flesh out all the details. We do have to see the effects of the system and prove incontrovertibly that those results were not by any means a result of some other process.

    Al Gore's theory does not possess this certainty, and probably won't for a great number of years assuming it's true. All the hurricanes we've seen COULD be thanks to natural meteorology, and might not really have anything to do with our supposed contribution to the heating.

    If we're to spend as great a deal of time as we are working on the solution to a problem we haven't seen the effects of, wouldn't you think that knowing the process might be a bit settling. At least to insure that you're not wasting your time?
    we fukin won boys

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