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  1. #31
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    YAY, GOOD NEWS! I don't have to settle for Queen palm fruits :P. After doing some more research, I've found that we have quite a few phoenix/Canary Island (true date palms) palms in the complex and in the neighborhood, and I notice some of them are producing flowers/fruits right now. Sweetness. I'm gonna be all over that as soon as the fruit ripens :P .
    Once again, Risen, you should listen to me very carefully.

    The pictures you have shown so far come from Phoenix canariensis, a variety of palm trees that are grown only for ornamental reasons.

    Their fruits, although not toxic, are NOT considered to be edible. They have no pulp: basically, it's just like a chunk of wood.

    The edible date-Palm is usually not so good looking: their stipes (=trunk) are slenderer, and their leaves more yellowish.

    ---

    Once again, there are approximately 2600 different species of palm trees, not counting the varieties. Some are edible, but the the vast majority produces non-edible fruits, fruits that have poor or non-existent nutritive value, at least for humans. Some species are even TOXIC (especially those from the semi-desertic areas of Asia and Australasia).
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    My wife and I went to Vancouver, B.C. about 7 years ago. They are about the same latitude as New York I think, maybe a bit more North. Anyway, we were very surprised to see three varieties of palms (Pindo Plams, and Windmill Palms, and King Sagos) planted OUTDOORS around the perimeter of a large public park that is on the water. We freaked out. The winters there are very cold, but I guess by the sea the salt in the water/air keeps these anomolous palms from ever freezing and perishing. It's truly cool to see them that far North.
    The climate differs tremendously according to sea currents. It explains why the west coasts of the continents experience milder winter than the east ones. Of course, things are reverted in the southern hemisphere.

    It's not only a question of latitude.

    So according to the USDA Hardiness zone, Vancouver is located in zone 8b, juste like Atlanta or Tallahassee on the east coast.

    You can check it more carefully on this map if you like:

    USNA - USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map: South-East US

    Of course, in Vancouver summers will be wetter and less hot, so the total amount of heat received during a year is very different, even if extremely cold temperatures are very rare. Nevertheless, you can grow very interesting plants in Vancouver and Seattle, tree-ferns and eucalyptus for instance.

    In Europe, we have this wonderful thing called the Gulf Stream. It means our shores are heated by the same waters that ran through Cuba and the Caraibes, and the result is spectacular.
    For instance, you have areas as high as Norway that are almost frost free!

    In the Faroe Islands (barely 250 miles south of the Arctic Circle, same latitude as Greenland and the northern part of Alaska), the mean temperature of January is +4C, and snow is limited to less than 3 days/year. So once again, according to the USDA system, these blessed Islands are located almost in zone 9.
    Of course, there is a counterpart... During the summer in the Faroe Islands, the mean temperature won't go further than 11C. You could say these islands experience more or less the same kind of climate during the entire year (Rain, rain, rain and rain).

    So while it's not impossible to grow tropical plants outdoors there, it's not that easy either. Nonetheless, you have palm trees there, I've seen it.

    Of course, with such an extreme and monotonous climate, your choice of species is very limited. And the classic choice is the Trachycarpus fortunei (Chinese fan-tree), the same you see in that Swiss arboretum. This specie can withstand frosts like -15C, if it grows in a very wet and mild climate during summer. Actually, if you have a mean summer temperature higher than 25C, this specific kind of palm tree won't grow well, or even die.

    As a consequence, you can find Trachycarpus occuring in Norway, Scotland, Ireland, and even Germany and Denmark.

    In Paris (same latitude as Newfoundland), we can cultivate approximately 25 different species of palm trees (Trachycarpus, Sabal, Butia, Jubaea... etc...), and some of them are used as common ornamental trees in the streets. Of course, they aren't as large or as showy than those you would find in Rome or in LA, but nonetheless, it's possible.

    As a matter of fact, the most cold-hardy palm tree is American. It is called Rhapidophyllum hystrix (the porcupine fan-palm: beware its needles!), and it can occur in the wild as high as Washington DC (East coast). Nonetheless, it is very rare, and is considered to be a very endangered specie.
    It can survive in northern areas, but then it won't bloom at all. Anyway, I have seen some Rhapidophyllum grown in the Yale University campus (Connecticut), without any frost protection.
    The fruits are malodorous and even considered to be toxic for most mammals, with some exceptions (black bears for instance).
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 12-04-2009 at 04:09 PM.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  3. #33
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    ^WOW!!! Great post! Thank you for that wealth of information, I really appreciate it.
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  4. #34
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    If you are interested Halla74, please compare the differences of the climate occuring in Paris:

    MSN Weather - Yearly, Monthly Temperature and Precipitation Averages and Records for Paris, FRA.

    And the one occuring in Qubec:

    Quebec, CAN Weather - Current Conditions, Forecasts, and Maps

    ---


    You will notice that in Paris, frosts are rather rare (less than 32 days/year), and snow even rarer. The mean temperature varies from +4.7C (January) to +20.0C (July). The total amount of rainfall is not that high (630 mm), but it rains every month.

    While in Qubec (east coast), temperatures vary from -12.8C (January) to +19.2C (July). And it rains three times more than in Paris, with drier winters and wetter summers.

    And believe it or not, Qubec's latitude is 46, while Paris is almost 48. Both cities receive approximately the same amount of sunlight.

    So you can describe the climate of Europe as humid but not damp, balanced, not extreme in any way, but at the price of a severe lack of sunlight during our dull, dark and gray winter months (because we live at far higher latitudes, compared to yours).
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #35
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    And here is the explaination:



    As you see, the Gulf Stream (shown in red, as a warm current) crosses the Atlantic Ocean and eventually bathes the European shores.

    At the same moment, on the east American coast, you have a cold current (shown in blue) that originates near Greenland and in the Labrador Sea, and it explains more than everything else the icy winters you experience there and the sharp contrast in temperature between the seasons.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Once again, Risen, you should listen to me very carefully.

    The pictures you have shown so far come from Phoenix canariensis, a variety of palm trees that are grown only for ornamental reasons.

    Their fruits, although not toxic, are NOT considered to be edible. They have no pulp: basically, it's just like a chunk of wood.

    The edible date-Palm is usually not so good looking: their stipes (=trunk) are slenderer, and their leaves more yellowish.

    ---

    Once again, there are approximately 2600 different species of palm trees, not counting the varieties. Some are edible, but the the vast majority produces non-edible fruits, fruits that have poor or non-existent nutritive value, at least for humans. Some species are even TOXIC (especially those from the semi-desertic areas of Asia and Australasia).
    I know they are most likely phoenix canariensis around here. The info I have obtained about the fruits details that they are not as large as the commercially grown phoenix dactylifera, but are none the less edible, and, from anecdotes I've seen, taste fine. The usability of the fruit is said to depend on whether they ripen properly and whether the tree is pollinated.

  7. #37
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    I know they are most likely phoenix canariensis around here. The info I have obtained about the fruits details that they are not as large as the commercially grown phoenix dactylifera, but are none the less edible, and, from anecdotes I've seen, taste fine. The usability of the fruit is said to depend on whether they ripen properly and whether the tree is pollinated.
    Soaking the dates in rum for a few months never hurts either.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

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