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  1. #21
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    No what?

    You can't play the nature/design card with a domesticated animal. It's nonsense. How far do you play it? Should we ship them back to Africa?

    Domestication is
    1. imprisonment
    2. an entirely unnatural process involving genetic engineering and frequently accompanied by the destruction of "natural" habitat, flora and fauna.

    If you think it is wrong, you shouldn't own a pet. Don't be beating up responsible owners for the protective measures they take.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #22
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Meaning: people want the experience of having a pet, which necessarily imposes some restrictions on the animal's natural behavior. This experience may be had even if the restrictions are small. Having a wish for the animal to experience a relatively natural life - closely resembling living in their natural habitat - is not necessarily incompatible with the desire to have a pet.

    What I mean, it's not linear, it's not a zero-sum game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #23
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyGeek View Post
    Just thought I'd jump in and comment on saying how I think raccoons are cute.

    cute raccoon:


    aww thats so cute

    i want a raccoon
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  4. #24
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    My cat has been stuck indoors ever since I moved to an apartment. I feel bad for her.. she loved to hide in the bushes and run around the grass. But there isn't much choice in the matter. I leave the windows open when I can at least.

    I've always thought it was most natural for cats to live in the country and have some territory to roam and hunt.

  5. #25
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I wouldn't feel bad about having an indoor cat. Our cat is now 17 years old and lives indoors exclusively. We used to take her out on a leash but she's getting a little too old for frolicking. But she has food, toys and companionship. And catches the odd rodent too from time to time.

    The biggest factor affecting a cat's life span is whether they live indoors or outdoors. Indoor cats, on average, often live considerably longer than outdoor cats.

    Outdoor Cat
    Estimated average life span: 5 years

    Indoor Cat
    Estimated average life span: 16 years

    Source: Lifetime Costs of Cat Ownership - PetPlace.com

    And another: "Free-ranging cats in the United States have an average lifespan in the general population of only 3 to 5 years; indoor cats have an average lifespan of 12 years and frequently live longer than 20 years. Car accidents are the biggest killers of free-ranging cats"

    (Karen L. Overall, M.A., V.M.D., Ph.D., Diplomate, American College of Veterinary Behavior; Department of Clinical Studies School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)

    You could build or buy them a kitty enclosure instead:


  6. #26
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Conservation Library

    Scientific studies actually show that each year, cats kill hundreds of millions of migratory songbirds. In 1990, researchers estimated that "outdoor" house cats and feral cats were responsible for killing nearly 78 million small mammals and birds annually in the United Kingdom.

    University of Wisconsin ornithologist, Dr. Santley Temple estimates that 20-150 million songbirds are killed each year by rural cats in Wisconsin alone.

    Feline predation is not "natural." Cats were domesticated by the ancient Egyptians and taken throughout the world by the Romans. Cats were brought to North America in the 1800's to control rats. The "tabby" that sits curled up on your couch is not a natural predator and has never been in the natural food chain in the Western Hemisphere.

    Cats are a serious threat to fledglings, birds roosting at night and birds on a nest. Research shows that de-clawing cats and bell collars do not prevent them from killing birds and other small animals. For healthy cats and wild birds, cats should not be allowed to roam free.

  7. #27
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    No what?

    You can't play the nature/design card with a domesticated animal. It's nonsense. How far do you play it? Should we ship them back to Africa?
    Reminds me of people who think its inhumane to neuter cats and dogs to deprive your pet of a sex life.
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the casethen it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  8. #28
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    I used to live in a neighborhood with one cat. It wasn't enough to silence the patridges that would scream song loudly at 3am every friggin' night. In that situation, i'd much rather deal with the cats.
    Love is the point.

  9. #29
    heart on fire
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    Geez, we had a forced move to a highly urban area. We live right off a busy street. There's no place for her to have outdoor time here. Should I have just dumped my cat before I moved here?

  10. #30
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I moved to a new very quiet neighborhood when I bought my condo. My cat had been indoor/outdoor at our previous house on a very busy street.

    One morning he had climbed up to the window on the second floor and was tapping to be let in. I went downstairs and cuddled him and snuggled him, as he was very fluffy and like a big sweet baby, then put out food and let him back out.

    I found him dead on the way to work. He had gotten hit just a few minutes later I guess. Now I try really hard to keep my two cats inside, although the one sneaks out the dog door now and then. Cats and cars just dont mix.

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