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  1. #181
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Traditional film has ISO noise too, by the way. So that's a digital AND film issue.

  2. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Traditional film has ISO noise too, by the way. So that's a digital AND film issue.
    Yeh, I'd forgotten the coarser grains and all. Been a long time since I've even seen film.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  3. #183
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i appreciate both styles very much. it depends on what sort of image you want to create. i know that when i do portraits i do very little processing and occasionally none but i also appreciate using photoshop as an artistic medium...i'm just learning both photography and photoshop and the image i posted was photoshop practice...so it was about that.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #184
    Senior Member SurlyAdam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    Oh yeh, and this one is incredible. How did you take it into direct sun with no flare or anything? Is that a long exposure too, or just the clouds making the effect? Looks a bit like a nuke .
    I suspect the clouds allowed me to get away with it. A little luck too, as another image a few frames later does have flare. Taken as a whole, there was no way my film could have handled exposing the entire scene correctly, so I decided to expose the sun properly and hoped the rest would fall into place, and it seemed to work. It was shot with a medium format camera, 210mm lens (equivalent to a 130mm lens on a 35mm camera), ISO 50 Velvia, 1/250th @ F/4. Only the tree is in focus, so the sky is a blur, and most of the scene is underexposed.

    Quote Originally Posted by noigmn View Post
    Is the line on the last photo a filter because of the difference in light levels, or is it two photos stitched?
    That was taken before I knew anything about GND filters. The line is just the curve of the Earth. The mountains are overexposed and lacking definition though, which is something I've seen in many of the photos I've taken with distant mountains. I think it's beyond the film's exposure latitude. The same thing happens with my digital camera, but it's accentuated here.

    There are many films out there and they all have their pros and cons. I prefer Velvia 50 for landscapes because when you get it right, the results are truly stunning. It does not have a lot of latitude however, so underexposure & overexposure is always a concern. You go through a lot of film when learning.

  5. #185
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    hmm...maybe. i don't know why though! i don't know of any digital photographer that does not do their post processing in photoshop....as far as i know that's how it's done....but i'll look.
    I have never "shopped" a digital image, so now you know one. Of course, I don't consider myself an expert either if you are talking professionally. Seems disingenuous to change an image unless its for an obvious reason (like blurring just to do some weird effect). Maybe I'm just strange eh?

  6. #186
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maabus1999 View Post
    I have never "shopped" a digital image, so now you know one. Of course, I don't consider myself an expert either if you are talking professionally. Seems disingenuous to change an image unless its for an obvious reason (like blurring just to do some weird effect). Maybe I'm just strange eh?
    Yes, I have not altered my photos in photoshop or any other digital editor either (aside from rotating some images 1-2 degrees because I have a problem with tilting horizons), and there's something distasteful to me about it, when you go about altering colors and all of that. Not that it doesn't create a neat artistic effect, and I am mostly referring to nature photography when I talk about manipulation. Because I want the image to be real, and realistic, and just what I saw with my own eyes, because I don't want to change nature, I want to capture the beauty of it as it is. And that just makes it all the more challenging for me to try to find good shots that don't need to be altered to be amazing (not that I am saying my stuff is amazing, because I'm not, and it's not. I have a lot to learn).

    I remember when I learned that all of the calendar images -- like of the greek isles, or other beautiful places -- are massively photoshopped. That was disappointing to me, haha. Using a paintbrush or pencil? Sure, adjust colors and use your imagination for all it's worth. But for some reason I want photos to capture reality. When you go to some of these places and realize that the water isn't really that blue, or there's a power line going across a windmill that wasn't there in the calendar photo, it just makes the photos themselves...seem less impressive. Certainly makes you realize these places aren't really as 'ideal' and perfect as the images lead you to believe. [But yes, I'm aware from a consumer standpoint the consumer wants to buy the Ideal in many instances.]

    But I know I 'cheat' in other ways, as my camera is set to 'Vivid' to achieve more saturation. And I cheat with a polarizing filter. Etc.

    I do understand Surly's sentimentalities about film though. Until the start of last year, I was using film, and I didn't like the idea of digital. So I resisted for a long while.

    But I switched to digital because I did not want to bother with worrying about film going through x-ray scanners at airports anymore. It's a million times easier to go traveling now that I have a digital camera. And then I never got enough practice, or felt able to practice, with my film camera, because it was too expensive to practice. With digital, I am finally learning about the technical stuff, and think I am getting much better as a result. ;-)
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maabus1999 View Post
    Seems disingenuous to change an image unless its for an obvious reason (like blurring just to do some weird effect). Maybe I'm just strange eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Yes, I have not altered my photos in photoshop or any other digital editor either (aside from rotating some images 1-2 degrees because I have a problem with tilting horizons), and there's something distasteful to me about it, when you go about altering colors and all of that.
    I'm guessing you are talking about filtering and effects. Correcting levels to be true to the original scene is pretty common, though other programs than photoshop do that stuff. If it is shot in raw, you need to decide user defined stuff at some stage though, and without photoshop filters that can still make huge changes to the final image. I think most professionals who use digital would at least tune the photo in this way. And maybe enhance a few things like saturation, sharpness and contrast to correct for some of the effects you get when printing. Though they probably have really good printers. I think the gist is that a camera is not a perfect tool, so take as is isn't always being true to things, because that absoluteness doesn't exist.

    I don't have Photoshop either. Not that I wouldn't like to have it. And I shoot mostly to JPEGs cos I'm lazy and can just view it then.
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  8. #188
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i understand that perspective totally...i would absolutely think that a good photographer wouldn't need to do a lot of post processing.

    i do enjoy photo manipulation though but i guess it's more digital art than it is photography, right?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    i understand that perspective totally...i would absolutely think that a good photographer wouldn't need to do a lot of post processing.

    i do enjoy photo manipulation though but i guess it's more digital art than it is photography, right?
    Yep, it's art. And art shouldn't have rules .
    Freude, schöner Götterfunken Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heiligtum! Deine Zauber binden wieder Was die Mode streng geteilt; Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

  10. #190
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    right...let's change the subject
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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