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  1. #21
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Martial arts are so super.

    Bruce Lee would lose a UFC match in his weight class. Unless, I wonder, if he had time to train..........

    I have to disagree with you there. Bruce Lee was benchmarked physically and no one has surpassed him on speed, agility, and strength per pound of weight.

    Also, in ufc fighting it's not that realistic. When you put gloves on you disperse the pressure from the knuckle and the more skilled fighter is at a disadvantage. In real life a woman who ways 140lbs could knock out a guy who weighs 240lbs with one blow assuming she was proficient at striking with her knuckles.

    It's basically like taking a needle and putting a cap on it, the needle no longer punctures paper the same way - it's just physics.

    I don't recommend street fighting though or fighting ever. Freshman year in college a short little guy came up to a d1 line backer in a bar fight and smashed a beer bottle over the dues head, he was 6'8" 350lbs of muscle but the little 125lb amigo nearly took his face off with that bottle.

    Fighting is dumb and inevitably results in tragedy outside of a ring/or gym.
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  2. #22
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    I have to disagree with you there. Bruce Lee was benchmarked physically and no one has surpassed him on speed, agility, and strength per pound of weight.

    Also, in ufc fighting it's not that realistic. When you put gloves on you disperse the pressure from the knuckle and the more skilled fighter is at a disadvantage. In real life a woman who ways 140lbs could knock out a guy who weighs 240lbs with one blow assuming she was proficient at striking with her knuckles.

    It's basically like taking a needle and putting a cap on it, the needle no longer punctures paper the same way - it's just physics.

    I don't recommend street fighting though or fighting ever. Freshman year in college a short little guy came up to a d1 line backer in a bar fight and smashed a beer bottle over the dues head, he was 6'8" 350lbs of muscle but the little 125lb amigo nearly took his face off with that bottle.

    Fighting is dumb and inevitably results in tragedy outside of a ring/or gym.
    So would you also agree that Mohammad Ali could take Mike Tyson, both in their prime?

    And your second sentence is quite a bold claim. "no one." How do you know?

    And I only ever mentioned a UFC match. I fail to be convinced.

    You do realize the first 13 UFC fights were completely bare knuckle.

    Many boxers, mma pros, and bare knuckles agree with this:


    Bare knuckles hurt the most because you're being hit with unpadded bone, but MMA gloves are more likely to cause a knockout. Here's how it breaks down:

    -Gloves are designed to protect the puncher's hand, not necessarily their target.

    -The more padding you have, however, the more surface area you're creating and the more cushioning you're adding.

    -Knockouts are not caused by hitting a hard surface, necessarily, but rather from how much energy is transfered. A knockout occures when the brain smacks into the skull at high speeds.
    I have MMA gloves and sparred with it. It's no fucking joke. There is NOT much padding. Just enough to keep you from breaking your hands.

    Hell, check out Wikipedia:

    MMA gloves or grappling gloves are small, open-fingered gloves used in mixed martial arts bouts. They usually have around 4-6 oz of padding and are designed to provide some protection to the person wearing the glove, but leave the fingers available for grappling maneuvers such as clinch fighting and submissions.


    Small, open-fingered gloves were first mandatory in Japan's Shooto promotion and were later adopted by the UFC as it developed into a regulated sport. Gloves were introduced to protect fighters' fists from injuries, as well as reduce the number of facial lacerations (and stoppages dues to cuts) that fighters experienced without gloves.

    The introduction of gloves was also intended to encourage fighters to use their hands for striking to allow more captivating matches for fans. There are some similarities to the wrist-supporting, closed-thumb, broken-knuckle kempo gloves popularized by Bruce Lee's 1973 movie Enter the Dragon.
    Didn't even notice the Bruce Lee reference til I copied that. But again, while knuckles CAN cause more facial lacerations, that is NOT a knockout. I got more proof if you need it.

    I did however, witness an acquaintance from High School, at the time a D1 University Offensive Tackle (6'4", 270lbs) get knocked out by a little wirey dude like freaking 125lbs, much like your story. Totally believe it, but shit, it was still unbelievable.

    Guess he never considered it could happen (he was a little drunk) but same night had knocked down a huge oak door at this stupid Frat party with his 2 huge bear hands. Craziness.

    Yeah fighting is dumb and all, I avoid them, but also won't back down, and ALWAYS try to resolve it verbally first. I've actually only been in like 3 or so fights past 18 years old, and they barely pass. I subdued all three. No punches on my end. I would, but I personally don't enjoy hurting people. I probably would if I had caught this fucker that grabbed my girlfriend's ass without my knowledge, but she intentionally didn't tell me til later. I was livid. Oh well.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I have noticed that I am rather attracted to a lot of MMA type guys. Ironic given I have no interest in the sport, nor watching. It's ironic and unfortunate really.
    lol...

  4. #24
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @GarrotTheThief I like this
    Fighting is dumb and inevitably results in tragedy outside of a ring/or gym.
    My grandmaster always has said...

    Don't fight unless you have to, but if you have to...win.

    I am a warrior in a garden and thus far all I've had to fight are weeds.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Also, is there anybody else on here who trains in internal styles?
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  6. #26
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz
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  7. #27
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Also, is there anybody else on here who trains in internal styles?
    I read your profile. you train in baguazang? Very cool - I will learn that eventually. I don't know if you consider wing chung internal but that's what I trained in first.

    I can't begin to conceive of baguazang or pretend to but I've seen it done and I know from moving and break-dancing that the spiraling motion generates a lot of force.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I do train in Bagauazhang. It is a central part of my life. I think Wing Chun implements some internal elements. I realize that most styles do in reality, but Xingyi, Taiji, and Bagua are classified as internal.

    As with any style, there's a lot of ground to cover. Bagua does heavily utilize rotation. It is all about generating and exerting the maximum amount of energy with the minimum expenditure. It's an art of efficiency and change.

    Like Wing Chun, there is a wooden dummy involved in training. We have eight forms we use on the dummy. We have eight segments of the Bagua form.

    I really respect Wing Chun, well all the arts really. I like the notion that whichever art you choose to learn, learn it well. Good Bagau teachers may be very slow in unfolding the hidden applications in every hand movement, every foot movement, but if a person is patient, it's worth the wait.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  9. #29
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Also, is there anybody else on here who trains in internal styles?
    What is an internal style?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    @GarrotTheThief I like this

    My grandmaster always has said...

    Don't fight unless you have to, but if you have to...win.

    I am a warrior in a garden and thus far all I've had to fight are weeds.
    Ha, you're cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    I read your profile. you train in baguazang? Very cool - I will learn that eventually. I don't know if you consider wing chung internal but that's what I trained in first.

    I can't begin to conceive of baguazang or pretend to but I've seen it done and I know from moving and break-dancing that the spiraling motion generates a lot of force.
    Like Capoeira? I've only seen it once or twice in a competition, but that shit can be DEVASTATING. Think it's hard to be accurate on a moving target though. Just guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I do train in Bagauazhang. It is a central part of my life. I think Wing Chun implements some internal elements. I realize that most styles do in reality, but Xingyi, Taiji, and Bagua are classified as internal.

    As with any style, there's a lot of ground to cover. Bagua does heavily utilize rotation. It is all about generating and exerting the maximum amount of energy with the minimum expenditure. It's an art of efficiency and change.

    Like Wing Chun, there is a wooden dummy involved in training. We have eight forms we use on the dummy. We have eight segments of the Bagua form.

    I really respect Wing Chun, well all the arts really. I like the notion that whichever art you choose to learn, learn it well. Good Bagau teachers may be very slow in unfolding the hidden applications in every hand movement, every foot movement, but if a person is patient, it's worth the wait.
    Damn, I've got some research to do.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.
    Likes GarrotTheThief liked this post

  10. #30
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @johnnyyukon

    What is an internal style?
    Internal martial arts focus more on spiritual, mental and qi aspects of the person's training. External arts such as karate or jujitsu supposedly focus more on the physiological aspects. However, all external arts incorporate some internal aspects and some internal arts incorporate some external aspects; so no style is purely one way or the other. In Bagauzhang, we spend a lot of time developing and manipulating our body's bioelectrical energy. We actually practice such things as raising/lowering our body temperature with concentration or slowing/increasing our heart rates, etc. We also spend time studying pressure points, acupressure, etc. I train in iron palm and vibrational palm. With a vibrational strike, I can strike a coconut on Monday and on Wednesday a crack will develop. It's a delayed reaction. Iron palm, of course, that's used for an immediate result, like a broken bone, etc. Bagua also incorporates a lot of training with knives and [called Wudang sword] swords. We use something called deer hook swords, and a ringed dagger. We do a lot of stick fighting [makes me feel like Gambit!] In Bagau, no movements are wasted. Every block is also a strike and even a retreat is a strike. We incorporate various animal styles as well.

    Have you ever seen the Ip Man movies? The last one called the Grand Master does a good job showing some real Bagua. But of course, there are several lineages of Baguazhang.

    I hope I didn't talk to much in answering that question, you know, just rambling.

    I've only seen it once or twice in a competition, but that shit can be DEVASTATING.
    Yes, it can.

    I think it's hard to be accurate on a moving target though. Just guessing.
    You are right. It is hard. One of the foundational principles of Bagau is that if you cease to move, you cease to exist. Bagau is rooted in the principle of constant motion, constant change. I think that's why I like it. It is a constant challenge. Even more challenging is finding a good teacher.

    Ha, you're cute.
    Haha...the weeds don't think so.

    Damn, I've got some research to do.
    There is some good info out there, but let me say that a lot of what is on youtube is amateur. Eli Montague [focuses more on Tai Chi but he IS a Bagau master] and Chris Matsuo of Dragon Gate Sanctuary are both really good. The Black Taoist is also good. These are some online guys that I am into and communicate with. Well, I don't communicate with Matsuo, but my teacher was a friend of Erle Montague's, so I've talked to Eli a bit here and there.

    Okay, I hope that is a good starting place. When you talk martial arts, you speak my language. haha. I love what I do.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

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