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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Not in any substantial way unless I'm missing something.

    You're missing something

    http://www.sanantonio.gov/parksandre...ay_trails.aspx

    "...joining a network of more than 1,150 previously designated trails that span more than 13,650 miles through 23 states."

    The trail, when more funding is approved, will damn near run through my backyard, making the seventh largest city in the United States (and growing) almost completely and safely accessible to me by bicycle. Even now I only have to bike about 2.5 miles to reach the trail as it stands. Every month I see more and more faces out traversing its lengths. I love the progress my city is making to further reduce its status as the once fattest city in America.

    Perhaps it is just me, but I have found health-consciousness to be a very large (hehe) concern of Americans here in recent years. I hope we collectively continue to break the status quos of modern American living.

  2. #62
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post

    Blackmail, what are your thoughts on the very high heritability of overweight/obesity/BMI in general?
    It's false, but only because you added "in general".

    If it was true "in general", then the average BMI should have remained more or less the same in developed countries during the last decades.

    It has not. In fact, during the last three decades, obesity prevalence has doubled, tripled and sometimes quadrupled..

    It means that most cases of clinical obesity aren't probably due to heritable factors (even if some are, unfortunately; if you have Maori or Pacific Islander ancestry, then you know what it means), but to our current environment.

    And our environment has changed. Both physically, economically and socially.

    We eat a lot more than what we used to be. We do less exercise than what we used to do. We are exposed to more chemicals and endocrine disruptors than ever, and the quality of the food we eat has been dramatically altered (too much cheap sugars), but that's just a few guesses. There are probably a lot of explained and unexplained factors at stake.

    But what I know FOR SURE, is that if you eat 4000 kcal a day (with a fondness for soft drinks), if you're average sized and if you sit all day long in front of a desk... then you will likely become obese.
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 06-19-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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  3. #63
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    @Quinlan


    and to back-up some of my claims, just look for instance at this fact sheet (from Harvard University, school of public health)

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritio...ion-source.pdf

    "A 20-year study on 120,000 men and women found that people who increased their sugary drink consumption by one 12-ounce serving per day gained more weight over time—on average, an extra pound every four years—than people who did not change their intake. Other studies have found a significant link between sugary drink consumption and weight gain in children. One study found that for each additional 12-ounce soda children consumed each day, the odds of becoming obese increased by 60% during 1½ years of follow-up."
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #64
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    It is time to show our cards.

    I'm an urbanist currently specialized in health and environmental problems. I'm not a physician, but I work with them on a daily basis.
    In Africa, we were focused on sanitation and diseases related to bad water quality. But in Europe and the US, we mainly focus on pollution, avalaibility of health structures, cleaning and recycling various wastes, but also on the obesity epidemy.

    Obesity has become the major health issue in developed countries, and is indirectly responsible for millions of deaths. So we work on how to make our built, political, cultural and physical environment less likely to promote obesity. And every physician or major health institute I've worked with, recommended the same thing: 1/ Make people exercise and walk more, and 2/ Educate people more about nutrition, make healthy products avalaible for them.

    -----

    I'm not here to make fun of obese people. On the contrary, my current job (this year) is to help them to find a cure. But we can do nothing if obese people don't acknowledge it's a disease, if they do not have the will to cooperate. And it's not because obesity has now become commonplace that it makes this disease less deadly. It is a deadly disease, a disease mostly due to our current way of living.

    For most cases we've studied, obesity works like an addiction to eating (especially sugar). People simply eat too much on average, and very unhealthy products. And you have to treat most obese people like people addicted to alcohol, tobacco or an heavy drug. They will behave the same way, most of them will be in complete denial of their situation, blaming genetics or inherited factors, or the so-called "slow metabolism" (no medical study has ever proven such a "slow metabolism" clearly existed). In fact most medical studies show that obese people frequently minimise the real amount of food they eat, that they hide it, exactly like an alcoholic person would do.
    And they need to exercise more frequently. I do not mean playing sports or suffer like a marathonian, but just walking a few miles each day. It's not a big deal, really, but it can have a tremendous effect on your health, more than if you play sports (even very intensively) only during the week ends..
    And that's where the physical environment, the structure of the city is important. Because if you're forced to use your car everyday, whether because you need it to go to work or to buy your daily stuff, you won't walk a lot. So the worst possible environment (from our perspective), is the extensive disconnected suburb with single housing and cul de sac, where a lot of space is wasted (urban sprawl).

    Obesity is correlated by multiple factors, but is more prevalent:

    1/ If you have a low level of education.
    2/ If you use your car everyday instead of walking, biking or taking public transports.
    3/ If you do not have access to varied commerces and services in your immediate vicinity -low mixed land use- (you should boycott the malls and especially discount stores).

    And this rule applies in every major metropolis in the world, regardless of continent or culture. So this has led to the twin concepts of walkability and active design. Built environments are now rated on how walkable they are, how they induce a pleasant walking activity.
    Last edited by Blackmail!; 06-19-2013 at 10:54 PM.
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  5. #65
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    If you're interested in the subject, you can watch for instance this conference of professor Howard Frumkin (School of Public Health, Seattle) held in Montréal during the Ecocity 2011 world summit.



    This guy is very funny.

    He really speaks about walkability starting at 5'40", and later how it is linked to obesity.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #66
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It's irresponsible to attempt to curb an epidemic primarily with shaming tactics.

    I think addressing public policy would be more effective: better education, better access to healthcare, better access to public transportation and walking/biking, agricultural subsidies that support public health instead of big ag, etc.

    IMO, a lot of people are here today because their ancestors were able to store enough fuel in their bodies to survive periodic famine. This is not a functional trait in an environment without major food scarcity and with sedentary lifestyles.

    We can beat up on people all day long and shame them and tell them they are ugly, but until we address the underlying problems, it's not going to get better.
    I personally think the problem isn't even solvable by education, it's better food we need. IMO the degradation of nutritional quality in our food supply (breeding fruits to be sweeter, mineral depletion of the soils, etc) is a direct cause of it all.
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  7. #67
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subwayrider View Post
    In "Dodgeball," the ripped gym rats were the bad guys, and the more potato-shaped but still active people were the good guys.

    Also, I've seen a lot of male characters in movies who are out of shape in relationships with thin, beautiful women. There might even be sort of a double-standard within this Fat Acceptance Movement as manifested in the media.
    I've noticed in sitcoms the out-of-shape guys with the thin, beautiful women and have wondered whatever happened to Rosanne. In movies and TV it seems like heavier people are typically in comedic roles which isn't the same thing as acceptance. It seems funny to me to have never heard of this in the slightest, but to have only been overwhelmed by its opposite. Is the premise of this thread real?

    Dove has its "real beauty" campaign, but I would say that the women they show are at their healthiest weight.
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    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I do agree that obesity is a problem in developed countries, but it has to do with our food sources. The processed foods are heavy with corn syrups, sugars, fats, and salts. The cheapest foods at the grocery stores are also of this nature. This doesn't even address the additional fast food problem. These foods are low in nutrients so people so people need more to get their basic nutrition.

    When entire demographics and even nations of people are suffering from a problem, it is a waste of time to look at first order effects and shame the individual. It is simply ineffective. You HAVE to look at the underlying causes which in this case is primarily the horrific food sources, constant advertisements to manipulate people into eating more, extended work hours, deep stresses in politics and the media that cause loss of sleep which also triggers food cravings, etc.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

  9. #69
    Junior Member Seedless's Avatar
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    It may be that people's bodies are diverse, but even so, too much is too much. I don't judge people based on their weight, as it isn't my body. However, I'd like people to care about their health enough that they'd want to lose weight/change their diet/etc. It's not something they should just accept. We are already eating processed foods and such; I think groups such as these give people the wrong idea.
    However, I'm not overweight and I don't know what I'd do in such a situation. I don't mean to offend anybody, also. I'm totally against bullying and people with weight problems should not be mistreated(we are all humans and should be respected as such). It doesn't help anything.

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    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I've noticed in sitcoms the out-of-shape guys with the thin, beautiful women and have wondered whatever happened to Rosanne. In movies and TV it seems like heavier people are typically in comedic roles which isn't the same thing as acceptance. It seems funny to me to have never heard of this in the slightest, but to have only been overwhelmed by its opposite. Is the premise of this thread real?

    Dove has its "real beauty" campaign, but I would say that the women they show are at their healthiest weight.
    Those women are not fat. Possibly they might be slightly overweight, at least by BMI standards. They're certainly not obese.

    Anyway, it's PR bullshit so that they can look like a "company that cares," I wouldn't place too much stock in it.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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