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  1. #21
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subwayrider View Post
    IMO, we should delay judgment until the scientific evidence delineates a clear conclusion.
    And science has already answered.

    Unless you truly have a genetic predisposition towards obesity (less than 2% of people on average), everything else is agribusiness profits, car fetishism, cowardice, lack of will, lack of education and self-indulgence.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  2. #22
    Member subwayrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    And science has already answered.

    Unless you truly have a genetic predisposition towards obesity (less than 2% of people on average), everything else is agribusiness profits, car fetishism, cowardice, lack of will, lack of education and self-indulgence.
    Saying a thing with certainty in no way alters its truth value.

    Not that I'm informed enough to debate with you, I'm just extremely averse to any displays of certainty. You could still be wrong, though I don't think I'm in any position to judge that.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It may sound easy, but that's one of the facet of scientific truth apparently nobody wants to hear, even you.

    There are dozens, and dozens, and dozens peer-reviewed articles that would prove this.

    Or are you implying that people had less metabolic problems, just two decades ago? That we were less "stressed" then?
    No, we're basically and physiologically the same. It's our way of living that has changed, it's the way we consume alimentary products that has changed.
    The fact that you use the 2 words "scientific truth" together shows that you don't know what you're talking about. Correlation does not imply causation and NONE OF THOSE STUDIES HAVE CLAIMED THAT IT IS THE SOLE CAUSE OF OBESITY. It is widely acknowledged that this is a multi-factorial problem and you do no one favours by over-simplifying the phenomenon.

    Yes people were a lot less stressed just 2 decades ago. We were also a lot less unhappy. Those stats and studies are also out there, but you're blinded by your insistence on blaming fat people entirely for their problems. 2 decades ago we didn't have a 24/7 lifestyle. We worked 9ish to 5ish. The media/fear circle was less vicious. Education was the way to a job. These things have all changed in the last 2 decades. Psychology affects physiology and vice versa. This is also well-known, you can go search for those studies. Our physiology has not evolved to keep up with changes in our psychology or lifestyle. That is yet another factor that contributes to the obesity epidemic.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    And science has already answered.

    Unless you truly have a genetic predisposition towards obesity (less than 2% of people on average), everything else is agribusiness profits, car fetishism, cowardice, lack of will, lack of education and self-indulgence.
    Science has not answered any questions. If anything, epigenetics and recent studies of biomarkers associated with metabolic problems and obesity completely debunks your claims and tells us that it is a lot more complicated than our current understanding.

  5. #25
    Member subwayrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    Science has not answered any questions. If anything, epigenetics and recent studies of biomarkers associated with metabolic problems and obesity completely debunks your claims and tells us that it is a lot more complicated than our current understanding.
    Everything is extremely complicated; it's exhausting.

    I am utterly unable to understand people who assert certainty.

  6. #26
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    The fact that you use the 2 words "scientific truth" together shows that you don't know what you're talking about. Correlation does not imply causation and NONE OF THOSE STUDIES HAVE CLAIMED THAT IT IS THE SOLE CAUSE OF OBESITY. It is widely acknowledged that this is a multi-factorial problem and you do no one favours by over-simplifying the phenomenon.

    Yes people were a lot less stressed just 2 decades ago. We were also a lot less unhappy. Those stats and studies are also out there, but you're blinded by your insistence on blaming fat people entirely for their problems. 2 decades ago we didn't have a 24/7 lifestyle. We worked 9ish to 5ish. The media/fear circle was less vicious. Education was the way to a job. These things have all changed in the last 2 decades. Psychology affects physiology and vice versa. This is also well-known, you can go search for those studies. Our physiology has not evolved to keep up with changes in our psychology or lifestyle. That is yet another factor that contributes to the obesity epidemic.
    Speaking of a so-called "scientific truth" is indeed a provocation. I hoped you would notice it.

    But unfortunately you didn't get the point.

    I'm also a scientist myself, and I currently work on obesity related issues (through urbanism).
    You seem to have a personal grudge against the "system" (I've read your posts in "Science is a religion", and you made me laugh). I have not.

    And again, you have dozens, and dozens, and dozens of peer-reviewed articles that will prove my point. But of course, if you do not trust the "system", then it's meaningless to discuss it.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  7. #27
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    Science has not answered any questions. If anything, epigenetics and recent studies of biomarkers associated with metabolic problems and obesity completely debunks your claims and tells us that it is a lot more complicated than our current understanding.
    If you say so...

    Once again, if you were right, then two decades ago, obesity rate should have been more or less the same.
    (And believe me, two decades ago, the amount of stress we had to endure was the same)

    It's not. Tell me why!!
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Speaking of a so-called "scientific truth" is indeed a provocation. I hoped you would notice it.

    But unfortunately you didn't get the point.

    I'm also a scientist myself, and I currently work on obesity related issues (through urbanism). And it's not because you're a total loser (I've read your posts on "Science is a religion") that your words should be taken for granted.
    You seem to have a personal grudge against the "system". I have not.

    And again, you have dozens, and dozens, and dozens of peer-reviewed articles that will prove my point. But of course, if you do not trust the systme, then it's meaningless to discuss it.
    It is meaningless to discuss this, then. I can agree on that. It's not a personal grudge and I may well be a loser. However, as a scientist it would be irresponsible of me to claim to know the entirety of a problem. Just because lots of people interpret the data the same way does not mean that it's true. Similarly, there are dozens and dozens of peer-reviewed articles about metabolism, hormone problems and epigenetics that show that they all play roles. I am not discounting that environment and personal choice play a factor - of course they all do. But I am saying that the situation is rarely clear cut especially when considering people on an individual level. It's all well and good to say that these are trends on a sociological level. It's another to say that a person is the trend. But whatever, it's obvious your provoking me and I need a nap. Adieu.

  9. #29
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by subwayrider View Post
    Everything is extremely complicated; it's exhausting.

    I am utterly unable to understand people who assert certainty.
    Not everything is always complicated.

    Sometimes, you have very simple patterns of action->consequence.

    You walk more, then statistically speaking, you will be less prone to have a CVA.

    You smoke, then statistically speaking, you destroy your health.

    You see? Sometimes it is indeed very simple.


    And I hate people who lie to themselves about those simple facts, because many lives are at stake.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    If you say so...

    Once again, if you were right, then two decades ago, obesity rate should have been more or less the same.
    (And believe me, two decades ago, the amount of stress we had to endure was the same)

    It's not. Tell me why!!
    Because two decades ago a significant part of the population was not born yet. Duh. Epigenetics = changes in chromosome markers that get passed down through gametes across generations. These markers change with lifestyle changes of the previous generations and can last up to 3 generations. And I don't believe you because I've read studies to the contrary. Anyway... It's obvious you've made up your mind and are unwilling to accept new information. keep being a happy dogmatic.

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