User Tag List

First 715161718 Last

Results 161 to 170 of 177

  1. #161
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    eNFP
    Enneagram
    ;) sx
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    devil's advocate:

    Let's say you're not morally superior, fine, but would you be morally bankrupt/shrugging off responsibility if let's say you did have a condition?
    No. Simply; No.

    On a greater note; morality is a joke in our society. The only times we bring it up is when someone who's claimed to be "good" isn't, or when we look at the "obese."

    That being said; I am very much in support of not equating high weight/ugliness/moral failure but we as a culture NEED to teach sugar/alcohol as being very very similar. Some people have a low alcohol tolerance, they puke after two beers. I have a low sugar tolerance (aka, I'm an endomorph. At least I have the guts, get it, guts?, to admit it). I've completely removed sugar and sweetners (with a single exception of an outing out with friends once every two weeks) from my diet. Who else does that? How many "normal weight" people do that? None that I know of. I'm the only person I know who has such a stance on sweeteners. But, it's what we need to do. I didn't do it for weight loss, though that certainly has happened, I did it because of a lot of complex reasons including needing to get my head wrapped around nutrition and body love properly since I'm going to be a therapist. We can't present sugar as the "reward" for "being good" it's like telling an alcoholic that if they stop long enough they can go back to drinking. We also can't present it like "they get to do it because they're good, and you're not so you can't" like a lifelong timeout. We also HAVE TO STOP starvation diets (I've actually heard people at a weight watchers meeting promise you that you're going to be hungry all the time for the rest of your life because you were bigger and you now need to eat 1200 calories a day for the rest of your life, and that many normal weight people are hungry all the time too, they just don't complain about it). 1200 calories and an hour of working out a day is a recipe for failure. And giving people 1200 calories, 200 of which are packed with splenda, which makes you hungrier, is just cruel.

    Also, a lot of caretakers (social workers, teachers, doctors, nurses, therapists, in home care givers) are very overweight, because they don't get a chance to take care of themselves and they're so stressed by taking care of others.

    Something being a health issue and something being a moral issue, especially when "good" and "bad" can be separated by two pounds, is really really bad. It's a failing of our society. (How many people glare at someone who's obese and very personally feel "YOU are raising my taxes!" or look at a woman with children using food stamps and think the same thing?) I am very VERY against in any way blaming or resenting or ostracizing or restricting or punishing people for their weight (or their economic level), I am very VERY for encouraging people faaaaarr away from sugars and to fruits and veggies and slow meals with friends and going out and walking or playing in the street or in the backyard and keeping a small garden and for accepting everyone no matter their size and judging people for the quality of their heart not the size of their waist and for setting a good example in behavior.
    -Brio

    "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life; I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well."
    -Teddy Roosevelt
    ___________________

  2. #162
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    XXFP
    Posts
    2,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post
    No. Simply; No.

    On a greater note; morality is a joke in our society. The only times we bring it up is when someone who's claimed to be "good" isn't, or when we look at the "obese."

    ...snip
    You said no...and then gave examples of 'yes, yes I do things differently'

    And while I can understand why you may jump to conclusions based on other people's reactions, please recognize that very little of the above is something I'm suggesting or advocating. I get the need for defense, and I guess some people will take what I wrote as a reason to pile on the attacks or something, but...I'm not attacking you.

    Maybe you're just adamantly making suggestions. If so, well ok. I generally agree.

    Also I feel like you are glossing over the distinctions I made about morality and responsibility entirely.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  3. #163
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,776

    Default

    may I point out? I'm going to whether or not i get persmission. But some people take psych meds that fuck with their metabolism and most people don't want to admit they're on psych meds cuz of stigma. Me I don't care, if you don't like me fine i don't care I don't want to be your friend.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #164
    / nonsequitur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    512 sp/so
    Posts
    1,821

    Default

    ^briochick good point about low sugar tolerance. My friends are horrified that I can't eat most desserts, avoid chocolate like the plague and stick to savoury, soupy Asian foods that tend not to be oily. It's probably the reason why my weight doesn't go up, but it has nothing to do with my willpower.

    Simply put, sugar makes me feel ill. Literally. Too much of it and I get a sore throat, my body gets over-heated (I feel feverish) and it's worse when it's in combination with dairy (I'm lactose intolerant). My mom is the same way, and when I complain about it, she says that I should count my blessings. Most of my sugar-addicted friends have expressed envy over my (weak) constitution and I see why they do so, but it has nothing to do with my personal choice and I certainly don't take credit for it. I also grew to like fresh fruit and vegetables at a young age and habitually drink a lot of water because it clears up the symptoms I get when I eat sugar! This same constitution means that I get asthma attacks when I exercise vigorously though.

    That's why I feel that unless you have been really overweight before and successfully lost weight, judgment of overweight people is pretty much living in glass houses and throwing stones. The whole approach should be, instead of "losing weight to fit social expectation" and "wanting to look like emaciated celebrities", to celebrate being active, being independent even in old age, having energy to do things and trying to be healthier because it makes people happier. Crash diets and starvation actually builds bad self-esteem, an unhealthy obsession/attitude towards food and makes society crazier in general.

    Being from an Asian nation with less of an obesity problem, we actually have school and company programs that aim to get everyone moving on a regular basis. From primary school level, kids who have a BMI out of the healthy range get tested for fitness. If they pass the fitness test, they're fine and carry on as usual. If they don't, it is compulsory for them to join the health and fitness club which meets every other day for sport activity and education about how to eat healthily until they can pass. At the company level, many corporate organisations have early-morning aerobics meetings and provide a free healthy breakfast post-workout, which allows people to socialise, feel good and lose weight at the same time. The companies' attitude is that a healthier worker is a more energetic worker and a happier worker who provides better quality of work and better service. Maybe because of my background and experiences, I think that when obesity becomes a problem on the national scale, blaming individuals and leaving it to "personal responsibility" is counter-productive.

    I have heard of church groups in the US doing a mix of worship and aerobics in groups, which is really encouraging since the highest rates of obesity are associated with rural living where faith is the strongest (note that I'm agnostic myself). Regardless of faith and denomination, the idea of "worshiping your own body", "wanting to be healthier" and "believing that you're worth making the effort for" is something that should definitely be advocated.

    Long story short; I agree that losing weight is a must. But shaming people is counter-productive and more than focusing on the fat, focusing on health and fitness is more effective and sticks better in the long run.

  5. #165
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    eNFP
    Enneagram
    ;) sx
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    637

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    You said no...and then gave examples of 'yes, yes I do things differently'

    And while I can understand why you may jump to conclusions based on other people's reactions, please recognize that very little of the above is something I'm suggesting or advocating. I get the need for defense, and I guess some people will take what I wrote as a reason to pile on the attacks or something, but...I'm not attacking you.

    Maybe you're just adamantly making suggestions. If so, well ok. I generally agree.

    Also I feel like you are glossing over the distinctions I made about morality and responsibility entirely.
    Ah, the interwebs, so many miscommunications. What the no was about was in response to your admittedly devil's advocate "morally bankrupt" statement. I understood you were playing devils advocate, I didn't think otherwise. In my defense; it's really late here so I've apparently gotten less articulate and probably more personal in my responses. I know you're not attacking me, and I wasn't trying to defend against your attack.

    Yes, I was making adamant suggestions.

    I may be glossing, it's very late, I'm not going to challenge my inferior T this late, I'm sorry I can't address it with the thoroughness and respect it probably deserves.

    Off to bed.
    -Brio

    "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life; I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well."
    -Teddy Roosevelt
    ___________________

  6. #166
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    XXFP
    Posts
    2,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post
    Ah, the interwebs, so many miscommunications. What the no was about was in response to your admittedly devil's advocate "morally bankrupt" statement. I understood you were playing devils advocate, I didn't think otherwise. In my defense; it's really late here so I've apparently gotten less articulate and probably more personal in my responses. I know you're not attacking me, and I wasn't trying to defend against your attack.

    Yes, I was making adamant suggestions.

    I may be glossing, it's very late, I'm not going to challenge my inferior T this late, I'm sorry I can't address it with the thoroughness and respect it probably deserves.

    Off to bed.
    ok. fair.

    For clarity, I'm not so sure about the morality bit in my mind, but I do believe that individuals come into this world with different problems and thus there are unique, individual concepts of personal responsibility that differ person to person, though how much responsibility people "should" or "must" take on is subject to negotiation between the forces of self and society. Ultimately there is not a correct answer, but I think people are faced with unique and by nature, unfair challenges and to some extent refusing to take them on *may* be a sign of refusal or inability to assume personal responsibility.

    On the other hand, on another level, I question if anyone owes any debts for their existance or the big elephant in the room here whether personal 'health' (as measured by physical fitness) is really such a preeminant duty that one ought to perform for one's self. While it has obvious benefits, what you decide is most important in your life is your choice, certainly beyond a point where your health is "adequate." That might mean you eat so-so, but spend more time with your kids, or at work, or thinking, or putting yourself at risk in a war zone, or just experiencing the flavor of some juicy steak.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  7. #167
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    I wasn't aware that the cause of Leptin resistance had been pinned down but something like sugar would not surprise me. I suspect it is something considered fairly innocous that starts the intial spiral into resistance.
    So far, there seems to be a link with high fructose intake. But there are probably several other factors involved.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2584858/


    I think good quality sleep supposedly helps with improving Leptin sensitivity too. The scientific community doesn't seem particularly interested in Leptin though, I think we need a leptin index of food just like there is a glycemic index of food. I think exercise might improve health not so much because you are burning x amount of calories but because of its beneficial hormonal effects. I think there needs to be more research into leptin resistance. Part of the problem with the dominant view on obesity is that it is based on our understanding before we even knew things like Leptin even existed. So there was an obsession with the few things we did know about (calories) rather than less obvious things like hormones.
    But it doesn't mean previous views about calorie intake are false: they remain true.
    Leptin will only regulate your appetite, so it's part of the issue, but the issue remains, at the core, how much you eat and what you eat (+ regular exercices). Leptin resistant rats will not become obese because they are resistant to leptin per se, but because they can't stop eating. If you give the proper amount of food per day to a leptin resistant rat (and nothing more), he won't become obese, he will just become a very hungry rat.

    What studies on leptin have shown, for instance, is that fasting, severe or radical diets aren't necessarily the solution, because they will likely increase your appetite on the long term, even if you lose weight. So these studies might give us a few clues on how we should cure obese people, at which rate, and with which food... but the basic principle remains the same.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  8. #168
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    2,934

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Because obesity isn't a behaviour?
    But some behaviours lead to unwanted, unhealthy outcomes like obesity...
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  9. #169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    it's easier to accept you're fat than it is to accept you have a problem with alcohol or drugs. especially when everything glorifies alcohol and drugs
    That's patently untrue in every respect. Every single commercial for an unhealthy processed food is glorifying it just as much as every movie that shows drug abuse in a romantic light. This isn't a pissing contest for who has the most crippling addiction.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  10. #170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Because obesity isn't a behaviour?
    I don't understand how anyone could arrive at that conclusion. There may be mitigating factors. But economic conditions don't make robbery not a willful act.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

Similar Threads

  1. The life logging movement
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Health and Fitness
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-24-2015, 02:54 PM
  2. The deafening silence of the anti-war movement this time around
    By DiscoBiscuit in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 10-01-2014, 10:58 AM
  3. Could the US accept a world in which is wasnt Hegemon?
    By Survive & Stay Free in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-22-2010, 01:13 PM
  4. Obama care; Tea Baggers (Covservatives) agiainst The Coffee Pot Movement (liberal)
    By lightsun in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-08-2010, 12:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO