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  1. #101
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiharu View Post
    The third link, while the woman is not overweight, is the sort of skinny shaming spread by many overweight people, more often women. "Real women have curves", "Men want meat, bones are for the dog".
    Skinny shaming while just as bad is the natural result of fat shaming. The cultural meme that says that fat people are 100% in control of their weight and that their bodies are up for public discussion and disdain unfortunately implies that the same goes for skinny people. Really skinny people and fat people should be allies against body shaming, the Skinny Fat Alliance.
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  2. #102
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Skinny shaming while just as bad is the natural result of fat shaming. The cultural meme that says that fat people are 100% in control of their weight and that their bodies are up for public discussion and disdain unfortunately implies that the same goes for skinny people. Really skinny people and fat people should be allies against body shaming, the Skinny Fat Alliance.
    I'm not skinny anymore and I'm not fat yet, but I'd join. If it was effective I'd become a true believer in the goodness of the human race and believe we could successfully take on all other forms of discrimination and inequality.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  3. #103

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    I'm pretty on board with @Blackmail! here.
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  4. #104
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Skinny shaming while just as bad is the natural result of fat shaming. The cultural meme that says that fat people are 100% in control of their weight and that their bodies are up for public discussion and disdain unfortunately implies that the same goes for skinny people. Really skinny people and fat people should be allies against body shaming, the Skinny Fat Alliance.
    Very well said.
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    "I have never in my life envied a human being who led an easy life; I have envied a great many people who led difficult lives and led them well."
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  5. #105
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    I don't like fat acceptance sheerly for the fact that it seems to take away hope. I mean, if I were overweight or obese, I'd be pretty discouraged by stories about how "so and so has a healthy, normal diet, exercises every single day, but she's still 300 pounds and always will be, because that's just the way it is...it's just how her body was made to be." That's pretty demoralizing, no?
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  6. #106
    half-nut member briochick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I don't like fat acceptance sheerly for the fact that it seems to take away hope. I mean, if I were overweight or obese, I'd be pretty discouraged by stories about how "so and so has a healthy, normal diet, exercises every single day, but she's still 300 pounds and always will be, because that's just the way it is...it's just how her body was made to be." That's pretty demoralizing, no?

    This isn't meant as a slight to Orangey in any way but can we establish on this thread what is fat and what isn't? Like, a peer accepted standard. Because, 180 is "obese" for most women in the US. 180. Not 300. Those "fatties" that everyone on the web/news is talking about, those disgusting people who can't get their act together, who have NO self control, those ugly cows who can't stop shoving food in their faces 24/7, in my mind they're talking about everyone over 180. 300 is an entirely different ball park. 300 isn't even morbidly obese. 300 is super obese.

    Is that what people think when they say "fat"? Are they thinking of super obese? Or, are they thinking medically obese? Because I've always taken fat and all the vicious and cruel comments about fat to mean anyone who is at or above the medical standard of "obese;" a weight of over 30% based off a calculation using that and their sex and height. So, like this girlhttp://www.mybodygallery.com/photos-34714-body-shape.htm?StartAt=1#.UcJ9DPmTg74

    Is that what we're talking about? Can we establish some kind of standard? Are we talking about anyone overweight and up? Because overweight is anything above a bmi of 25% based on the calculation (that is, no other measurements need to be taken or factors included to establish an increase in your insurance rates), so that's anything at or over 150 for the average woman in America. Is that "fat?" Like this girl: http://www.mybodygallery.com/photos-...9#.UcJ_GvmTg74

    Because, frankly, I think that "overweight" (medical definition) is okay and even "obese" (medical definition) can be okay for some people. Morbidly obese though, maybe for football players or weight lifters or some other sport that requires a lot of weight, and super obese...that's just unfortunate.

    However; I think that sugar is basically like alcohol. It's okay occasionally in very small doses. Having it often, or even regularly, turns it into poison. And, just like alcohol, some people have low tolerances for it, some people have better tolerances for it, but very few people can drink like a fish without it doing serious damage. Ectomorphs, of which there aren't a lot, are the high tolerance people, mesomorphs can probably handle a little. Most of us are endomorphs, we're low tolerance people.

    Also, as someone studying psych (MA, not BA) I'd like to point out that punishment/negative sensation only works to extinguish a behavior, not create behaviors. This can get really complicated because humans are complicated. Because people who are big receive punishment/negative sensation (shaming, being ostracized, dirty looks and comments from strangers), they are essentially receiving punishment for all their behaviors, even the good ones. Also, by punishment you can get someone to stop eating (maybe entirely) but only through positive and negative reinforcement can you create desired behaviors (eating lots of veggies and fruits, eating only whole foods, exercising regularly, getting out and walking around, self care). Our society is WOEFULLY lacking in any ability to offer healthy positive and/or negative reinforcement. Instead we end up creating and atmosphere where getting thin means you'll get to eat fun foods again, and eating poisonous sweeteners is seen as the reward for being thin; that's why a teen eating an 800 calorie cinnebon can look on in disgust at a 300 pound person eating the same thing (when neither of them should be, my gosh). Also, a lot of big people have said "f*ck it! I'm not waiting until I reach a weight goal to eat "fun" foods again!" A problem being the addictive food being used like a carrot on a stick. They (sweeteners) should be seen as it is, very tasty poison, and all people should be discouraged from eating it or foods including them with any kind of regularity and getting outside and walking and talking with friends and gardening and eating whole food should be praised.

    We should emphasize the weight A LOT less and the positive pro-social behaviors A LOT more.
    -Brio

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  7. #107
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    The third link looks pretty normal along with the statement. The first two don't seem to have a significant following, but are presenting the meme that "body size is not connected to health". It sounds like they are taking what could be a reasonable idea too far.
    This is an insane movement. These people are crazy or desperate if they think that body size is not connected to health.

    Obesity is the major health issue in developed countries. Obesity kills millions of people each year.
    According to me, if we have to fight obesity and NEVER make it "acceptable", it's not because obese people are deemed "ugly", it's not image related, it's rather because obese people are killing themselves the same way an alcoholic or an heavy smoker would. You may say that if they want to commit suicide, it's their business, and who are we to judge them... But I don't agree. You wouldn't let your neighbours or relatives die this way, especially when it can be prevented, would you?

    Obesity is not a question of social acceptance, it's rather a question of societal solidarity.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  8. #108
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by briochick View Post
    Is that what people think when they say "fat"? Are they thinking of super obese? Or, are they thinking medically obese? Because I've always taken fat and all the vicious and cruel comments about fat to mean anyone who is at or above the medical standard of "obese;" a weight of over 30% based off a calculation using that and their sex and height. So, like this girlhttp://www.mybodygallery.com/photos-34714-body-shape.htm?StartAt=1#.UcJ9DPmTg74

    Is that what we're talking about? Can we establish some kind of standard? Are we talking about anyone overweight and up? Because overweight is anything above a bmi of 25% based on the calculation (that is, no other measurements need to be taken or factors included to establish an increase in your insurance rates), so that's anything at or over 150 for the average woman in America. Is that "fat?" Like this girl: http://www.mybodygallery.com/photos-...9#.UcJ_GvmTg74

    Because, frankly, I think that "overweight" (medical definition) is okay and even "obese" (medical definition) can be okay for some people. Morbidly obese though, maybe for football players or weight lifters or some other sport that requires a lot of weight, and super obese...that's just unfortunate.
    BMI Index is not a percentage, you're confusing many notions.

    Technically speaking, being "obese" means you have a BMI higher than 30.
    With a BMI of 32, your mortality rate is doubled. So this condition is not to be taken lightly, medically speaking. Of course a bad self image can have disastrous mental consequences, but it's not the main issue, really. Obesity will affect your heart, your arteries, your brain and your endocrine system, with dire consequences.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #109
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Skinny shaming while just as bad is the natural result of fat shaming. The cultural meme that says that fat people are 100% in control of their weight and that their bodies are up for public discussion and disdain unfortunately implies that the same goes for skinny people. Really skinny people and fat people should be allies against body shaming, the Skinny Fat Alliance.
    You're in denial Quinlan, and you know it.

    It's exactly like if you were saying that an heroine addict is not "100%" in control of his addiction. Of course, s/he is not. But ultimately, nobody can take the decision to stop drugs but him/her. The first step is acknowledging you have a problem, and that in most cases, this problem could be cured. Without even a basic willpower impulse, if you constantly pretend you can nothing about it, that you can't fight, then indeed nothing will change.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  10. #110
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I mean, if I were overweight or obese, I'd be pretty discouraged by stories about how "so and so has a healthy, normal diet, exercises every single day, but she's still 300 pounds and always will be, because that's just the way it is...it's just how her body was made to be."
    In 98% of the cases, those stories are false, they're urban legends. According to most medical and psychological studies I've read, most obese people will carefully hide the real quantity of food they eat, even to their doctors. The vast majority of them will lie and will stay in denial. It's like an addiction to drugs.

    If obese people go to an environment where their food intake is closely watched and controled, then in 98% of the case, they "miraculously" lose weight. Only 2% of the population have a sizable genuine genetic predisposition towards obesity.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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