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  1. #31
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    If being overweight didn't have such negative stereotypes associated with it, I think far less people would have body image issues. In the media, whether it be books, movies, TV, etc. when an overweight character is portrayed, they almost always seem to be portrayed as food-obsessed, lazy, stupid, or maybe a bit evil. It wouldn't be hard at all to have characters that just happen to be overweight but who aren't gorging themselves on food and aren't food obsessed. Overweight people who are admirable, attractive (yes it's definitely possible), smart, motivated to make a positive difference. So how come you don't see many of these people in the media?
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  2. #32
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    If being overweight didn't have such negative stereotypes associated with it, I think far less people would have body image issues. In the media, whether it be books, movies, TV, etc. when an overweight character is portrayed, they almost always seem to be portrayed as food-obsessed, lazy, stupid, or maybe a bit evil. It wouldn't be hard at all to have characters that just happen to be overweight but who aren't gorging themselves on food and aren't food obsessed. Overweight people who are admirable, attractive (yes it's definitely possible), smart, motivated to make a positive difference. So how come you don't see many of these people in the media?
    in my opinion, being overweight should carry some degree of social stigma. perhaps there are instances in which such stigma manifests in overly malicious ways, but after taking into account how many people are overweight despite the level of stigma present, imagine how many people would be overweight it it were socially acceptable?
    btw, I'm talking about actually overweight, not people with larger/more powerful frames (though neither do I think having a larger frame is an excuse to not be in good shape)
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  3. #33
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    in my opinion, being overweight should carry some degree of social stigma. perhaps there are instances in which such stigma manifests in overly malicious ways, but after taking into account how many people are overweight despite the level of stigma present, imagine how many people would be overweight it it were socially acceptable?
    btw, I'm talking about actually overweight, not people with larger/more powerful frames (though neither do I think having a larger frame is an excuse to not be in good shape)
    I think you missed my point. So what if more people are overweight? Is it a health risk? Maybe, especially if you're largely overweight. But if you're slightly overweight but in good shape I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. Genetics does play a factor. People often seem to forget that. Not everyone is going to be skinny even if eat all the right foods and exercise the right amount. Sure it might make a difference between being obese and merely overweight. How do we know when we pass by an overweight person that they are not already doing these things? Furthermore, why should someone be stigmatized for something beyond their control- if it is all just genetics. Maybe they had really poor health habits in the past and are working hard to overcome that. Someone isn't just going to drop 100 lbs overnight. Sometimes there are health conditions too that make people overweight- certain medications can cause a great deal of weight gain. The alternative could have far worse consequences. Someone could have mental health issues too, like depression or compulsive overeating that lead to overweight. These people deserve to be helped, not stigmatized. Do you think these people chose to have these disorders? Not likely?

    I don't endorse gluttony or laziness by any means but I also think there are also far worse vices that are more detrimental to society. Like cruelty to your fellow human beings.
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  4. #34
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    @Chiharu: I don't know what else I want to say right now, but I just wanted to say that I get it... I happen to be a tall and not-model-skinny girl dealing with weight issues and feeling very frustrated to the point of not even having the energy to make any changes right now.

    Like you, I get tired of the "public messaging" too -- yes, I know I have to find acceptance for my body and be happy in my own skin, but right now it's all words and more annoying than helpful to hear that. It's more a matter of figuring out how to actually get there, and that's something that obviously takes time and ... some kind of inner shift. Not sure what. I would just love to be able to buy shoes in a regular store, or buy clothes off the average-sized girls rack. I mean, I'm not even asking to be something spectacular, I'd just like to be "average" and have the average pleasures of the average woman, with a body that fits in average-shaped and sized clothes.

    Pretty much right now I'm surviving on distraction.... losing myself in things I care about, as much as possible, so that I don't consciously end up thinking about my dissatisfaction. It's only a crutch (?), but right now it is all I can manage. I wish I could be happy regardless of body, but right now it's contributing to my depression.
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  5. #35
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    I think you missed my point. So what if more people are overweight?
    it's gross. less fat people means more sexy people

    Is it a health risk? Maybe, especially if you're largely overweight.
    exactly

    But if you're slightly overweight but in good shape I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. Genetics does play a factor. People often seem to forget that.Not everyone is going to be skinny even if eat all the right foods and exercise the right amount. Sure it might make a difference between being obese and merely overweight.
    I already accounted for this

    How do we know when we pass by an overweight person that they are not already doing these things?
    this is why I give people the benefit and am, in this instance, referring to a common social trend rather than singling out an individual whom might be obese for a number of reasons

    Furthermore, why should someone be stigmatized for something beyond their control- if it is all just genetics.
    if it were all just genetics, we wouldn't see such a large fluctuation of obesity rates among different cities, different countries and different time periods within the same region

    Maybe they had really poor health habits in the past and are working hard to overcome that. Someone isn't just going to drop 100 lbs overnight. Sometimes there are health conditions too that make people overweight- certain medications can cause a great deal of weight gain. The alternative could have far worse consequences.
    already addressed this

    Someone could have mental health issues too, like depression or compulsive overeating that lead to overweight. These people deserve to be helped, not stigmatized.
    if they have mental issues (which are severely over diagnosed in my opinion) they should do something about it

    Do you think these people chose to have these disorders? Not likely?
    no, but if I did I would be working out more and watching my diet like a hawk.
    do you believe people with mental or physical disabilities or people with genetic predisposition toward obesity (such as thyroid problems or type 1 diabetes) are the norm among obese people?

    I don't endorse gluttony or laziness by any means but I also think there are also far worse vices that are more detrimental to society. Like cruelty to your fellow human beings.
    of course there are worse vices, but it's still a vice.
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  6. #36
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    @Elfboy

    The best argument against fat shaming is that it doesn't really work well. It might produce temporary effects like going on crash diets or intense exercise regimes, but sooner or later, people find that they've set their goals too high, get depressed about their inability to shed weight quickly, give up, and binge eat their feelings.

  7. #37
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it's gross. less fat people means more sexy people
    Are you implying that fat people can't be sexy?

    Maybe it's just not as important to me because sexiness is a lower priority in my life. I am SX last you know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I already accounted for this
    Where?


    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    if it were all just genetics, we wouldn't see such a large fluctuation of obesity rates among different cities, different countries and different time periods within the same region.
    Never said it was all genetics. I do agree that obesity rates vary between different places.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    already addressed this
    Again, I'm not sure where.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    if they have mental issues (which are severely over diagnosed in my opinion) they should do something about it
    Yes, but sometimes they may not do anything about it not because they don't care but because they either don't know how to best go about it, may wrongly think it won't do any good, or lack the financial resources to do so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    do you believe people with mental or physical disabilities or people with genetic predisposition toward obesity (such as thyroid problems or type 1 diabetes) are the norm among obese people?
    I don't think it's the norm but it is a factor worth considering before you conclude an obese person is a gluttonous, lazy slob.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    of course there are worse vices, but it's still a vice.
    Yes it is.
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  8. #38
    Retired Nicki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    I think you missed my point. So what if more people are overweight? Is it a health risk? Maybe, especially if you're largely overweight. But if you're slightly overweight but in good shape I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. Genetics does play a factor. People often seem to forget that. Not everyone is going to be skinny even if eat all the right foods and exercise the right amount. Sure it might make a difference between being obese and merely overweight. How do we know when we pass by an overweight person that they are not already doing these things? Furthermore, why should someone be stigmatized for something beyond their control- if it is all just genetics. Maybe they had really poor health habits in the past and are working hard to overcome that. Someone isn't just going to drop 100 lbs overnight. Sometimes there are health conditions too that make people overweight- certain medications can cause a great deal of weight gain. The alternative could have far worse consequences. Someone could have mental health issues too, like depression or compulsive overeating that lead to overweight. These people deserve to be helped, not stigmatized. Do you think these people chose to have these disorders? Not likely?

    I don't endorse gluttony or laziness by any means but I also think there are also far worse vices that are more detrimental to society. Like cruelty to your fellow human beings.
    I completely agree with this.
    I really like cats and food.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    It's a funny thing. I'm now about 10 lbs overweight (by BMI), which is the thinnest I've been. As I get thinner, I feel fatter. I'm not sure why, I guess maybe it's because all of a sudden I'm close to being some sort of ideal, whereas before it was something that just wasn't going to happen.
    It is probably because you have notice your own body image

    No really.

    If you think about the extreme cases like anorexia and bulimia, the people are skinny (most of them usually,) but they don't feel like their "normal" ideal weight/image.

    @Such Irony Genetics only go so far. If genetics predisposes you to retain fat more, it just means you need to be a bit more picky about your food choices. (Monounsaturated > Polyunsaturated > Saturated > Trans-fats/hydrogenated) Being "big-boned" on the other hand, there isn't much you can do about it.

    If I blamed my epic farts on being a bit lactose intolerant every time, than it means I am not looking at the issue correctly. That is, the thing that is causing these epic farts is because I am lactose intolerant and I shouldn't be drinking/eating milk products in such large amounts to add onto the effect of these epic farts.

  10. #40
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    Are you implying that fat people can't be sexy?
    Maybe it's just not as important to me because sexiness is a lower priority in my life. I am SX last you know.
    I initially attributed it to me being a 7 with a 3 fix (in other words, vain as fuck LOL) and you being INTP 5w6, but, now that I think about it, variants probably do play a role lol


    Where?
    here:
    btw, I'm talking about actually overweight, not people with larger/more powerful frames (though neither do I think having a larger frame is an excuse to not be in good shape)
    perhaps I should have elaborated a bit more. if you are a healthy weight for your size, I don't consider you overweight

    Never said it was all genetics. I do agree that obesity rates vary between different places.
    I think it's maybe 20% genetics if that

    Yes, but sometimes they may not do anything about it not because they don't care but because they either don't know how to best go about it, may wrongly think it won't do any good, or lack the financial resources to do so.
    if they're accruing resources in order to do so and not working on it immediately, that's one thing, but if not, I have no sympathy for hopeless people.

    I don't think it's the norm but it is a factor worth considering before you conclude an obese person is a gluttonous, lazy slob.
    exactly, which is why I said that, on an individual level, I try not to judge people because it would be presumptuous to do so without knowing their circumstances
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