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  1. #11
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Oh that sounds awful.

    What about vegetables is it that you can't stomach? The taste? The texture? Is there a difference between raw vs cooked? Or is it simply the IDEA of it?

    As a vegetarian and food lover and cooking lover, I have lots of tricks up my sleeve that I could suggest if it's a taste or texture thing. However, if it's something more psychological, that is beyond me.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo View Post
    Which vegetables to you find palatable already. Which do you dislike most? Is cooking method a factor? Then we can make suggestions.
    I made a list yesterday of vegetables that I (at this point) can't imagine eating: beans, peas, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower. as far as cooking method: I don't know what all can be fried? but in most cases I'd probably prefer that to cooking, unless the texture could be masked by other ingredients in the recipe. idk, I'll definitely check out all of the links that others have mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    This is really something that therapy is intended for.
    I really appreciate all of these responses. Most have been so well-informed and helpful, and I understand the thought that therapy might be the best option. But if anything, I'd rather it be a last-case scenario. I just ended therapy at the beginning of this year and I'm not anxious to go back. Anyway, I haven't even tried a new food since my other issues faded out, so who knows -- maybe it'll be easier now. But hypnosis might actually be a good idea (thanks @StantonMoore)

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    This is answered, to me, by the vicious cycle of depression/stress/other issues in your life. When the core issues in your life are not being addressed, nothing really gets 'fixed'. Having a therapist 'reject' this issue as a serious one is not the right answer s/he should have given at all, they should have referred you to a food therapist.
    That's possible. Even though I've had this problem since I was 2 or 3 years old, I wonder if I would have grown out of it in my pre-teen years if it hadn't been for all the other issues that began at that point.

    The therapist didn't really reject it. I told him during the first session that my main issues were depression and anxiety, and that I had this unrelated food phobia; he asked me if my doctor was concerned about it and if I was concerned about it. I wasn't at the time, because I honestly hardly ever think about it. But yeah, my doctor's lack of concern is surprising. Though for some reason I've never thought to tell her that I'm exhausted all the time?

    And again, thank you! The suggestions you made were exactly what I was looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Oh that sounds awful.

    What about vegetables is it that you can't stomach? The taste? The texture? Is there a difference between raw vs cooked? Or is it simply the IDEA of it?

    As a vegetarian and food lover and cooking lover, I have lots of tricks up my sleeve that I could suggest if it's a taste or texture thing. However, if it's something more psychological, that is beyond me.
    (It's honestly not that bad on a daily basis. Ignoring it is unfortunately easy.)

    I seriously have no idea. I'd like to think that I know myself pretty well, but when it comes to this, I'm just like
    I have one or two vague theories that I'm putting them on the shelf for now. Doubt they'd actually be helpful. And I'm not trying to sound self-effacing, but I think it has something to do with simple immaturity, too.

    But yes, taste and texture are factors, so I'd be glad to hear about your ideas.

    /ughhhhh lately I've been realizing the truth of the view that addressing one's own mental health issues in certain contexts can just aggravate egocentrism

  3. #13
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    This may sound weird, but have you tried vegetables prepared in various ways? Boiled, grilled, stir-fried, tempura, raw, etc? Fresh, frozen, canned? I hated vegetables until I started having them fresh with simple flavors (no "cheese" sauce, THANK YOU).
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Retmeishka's Avatar
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    Dumb question - and I haven't read this thread yet, so I don't know if the problem was ever resolved, and I know nothing about what anyone else said yet - but here is my question. Is the disgust happening when you eat foods from your own refrigerator at home, and if so, is your refrigerator turned up enough that it's really cold? The fridge has to be less than 40 degrees for food to stay fresh. If the fridge is warm, food spoils, and of course it will disgust you when you try to eat anything at all. This happened to me before, which is why I'm asking.

  5. #15
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Since it's being re-addressed, I already posted back then... I figured I'd give more current advice. I didn't read my old response.

    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    I've made tons of attempts throughout my life to add new foods to my diet and to eradicate the problem altogether...I tried addressing it once with a therapist, but they didn't see it as serious compared to my other (previous) issues. I haven't made any effort since then.
    I'd say anything you are personally concerned with should be a concern to a therapist. You might need to talk to a therapist specifically designed to deal with eating disorders.

    But now that my depression and anxiety have for the most part faded out, yet I still feel exhausted and foggy almost constantly, I think it's time to get serious about it. My goal is to add at least three vegetables to my regular diet by the end of summer.
    I think that's a great goal. It's tangible, and concrete, and realistic. Also keep in mind: your diet and nutrition levels have a LOT to do with how you feel and how your body operates. I'd at least start taking a gummy multivitamin or something if you don't already. If nothing else, a multivitamin, adequate water (even if you have a flavor it with enhancers), and adequate sleep. You'll be more likely to tackle this task with those three prongs handled.

    What I'd appreciate feedback on:
    1. Why do you think I'm like this?
    Something in your mentality and/or life relates vegetables and non-processed foods and such as disgusting. While there are real cases of people eating cilantro, or broccoli, and it physically tasting different than most people taste it as... Chances are, you don't suffer from that.

    The first time I tried sushi I didn't think I liked it. There are some vegetables I still don't like, despite currently moving to a mostly vegetable diet.

    An important thing to remember is your taste buds adapt over time to what you put in your mouth. Vegetables do not taste fresh, and amazing and crisp and commercial-esque when you eat at mcdonalds all the time. They just taste different, and bland. Your taste buds, your brain, your reflexes--they're drawn to fat, and sugar, and processed foods. Those are the things it will crave. And coming down off of that--it requires a bit of withdrawal symptoms to get through.

    2. What do you think I can do to become comfortable with these unfamiliar tastes and textures?
    - Start with baby steps. Don't try to tackle a raw vegetables yet.
    - Cook your own food. If you want processed food still, fine, but cook it yourself, even if it's just sticking it in the oven and eating it. You should have an active relationship with every single meal you make.
    - Get equipment that will help you. If you like milkshakes, but never make them yourself, invest in a blender. Get the things that will get you cooking.

    3. Where would you recommend starting? / What are some good, healthy recipes that include relatively palatable vegetables?

    I'd say to start by de-processing the food you currently eat. Whole grain pastas. Whole grain organic breads. Using meat that has been personally prepared by you. Replacing your sugar with other sweeteners--like maybe starting with coconut sugar, and moving to things like dates, date sugar, and honey. If you like coffees from starbucks, start looking at knock-off recipes to make them yourself.

    There are a lot of ways online to easily replace your processed food with non-processed food. Hamburgers can be quite healthy for you if made by hand.

    Pick a vegetable that's the closest to something you currently eat.
    - Potatoes. French fries might a common processed food--... so look up a great recipe online for making great baked potato fries vs. fried fries.
    - Or, if you really like milkshakes it's even easier. Pick lettuce--a mellow green leaf, and stick a few leaves into your milkshakes and blend them up. It's just enough to turn it green--but you cannot taste it and it's too few leaves to make any vegetable taste there. The texture will not change with 1-2 leaves. You can slowly add 2 more leaves until you're putting a handful in at a time. Then you can change it to spinach--a higher nutrient level, with still mellow flavor.
    - Spaghetti is the easiest. Steamed, pulverized mixed veggies can mesh sooo well and seamlessly with tomato sauce and italian spices.
    - A few well-blended and pulverized steamed cauliflower in mashed potatoes won't cause any suspicion. Pick a recipe you like, and the easiest and smoothest vegetable to stick in there will come with a simple google search. Just look up "hiding vegetables for kids". I swear, moms are awesome for sneaky yummy recipes.

    Try some organic bars that have some replacements in them. See if that helps. Some freeze-dried greens are in Just Great Stuff's green chocolate dream bars for example... but to me, it just tastes like a chocolate protein bar.

    Start a food diary and log. Write what you ate--what you cooked, how difficult it was, how you felt about cooking.. if it made you happy and accomplished after or not. How much you could really taste the vegetable--or if you only thought you could taste it.

    And finally, watch youtube videos with raw vegans, hippies, or vegetarians. I particularly like this girl: http://www.youtube.com/user/FullyRawKristina .. Just watch them. Watch them be happy about their food, and the relationship they have with it. Try to connect to it--or just appreciate how happy they are about it. It couldn't hurt and it only takes a couple minutes. It could help inspire you to try again if you reject a dish you make. I have no desire to do this girl's diet.. but I like watching her anyways. She inspires me to think of creative ways to make things.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Retmeishka's Avatar
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    Sorry for having bumped this thread, I was just digging through the 'health' section to look for things I was interested in.

    I don't have a lot of time to write, and I don't have the internet at home, so I'm just throwing in a brief note here, but I actually have more to say on this.

    Is the limited diet something that you have been doing for your entire life, since infancy, or is it something new that only started in the past few years or so?

    If you feel 'exhausted and foggy constantly,' I would ask: Are you currently using any medications for your depression and anxiety? If you are taking drugs, feeling exhausted and foggy is a side effect of prescription drugs. Doctors won't tell you about drug side effects. (*Edit: Quitting drugs is extremely dangerous. When people go into withdrawal from psychiatric drugs, they can commit suicide or homicide, or other horrible things happen, so it takes a long time to quit drugs safely.*)

    Even if the exhaustion is a drug side effect (rather than being caused by malnutrition, which is why I assume you wanted to try adding vegetables), you might want to try vegetables anyway for whatever reason.

    However, vegetables are objectively, inherently gag-inducing. It's not just you. It's the vegetables. People who have a strong tolerance for disgust are able to make themselves try things that cause this discomfort. I can force myself to swallow broccoli, but I am aware of the physical sensation of wanting to spit it out. The more fiber it contains, the more you want to spit it out. The fiber stays in your mouth while you're chewing, and it doesn't get mushy, it just stays hard and fibery. It's natural to want to spit it out. I remember watching a movie not too long ago about chimpanzees, and even *they* like to chew up fruits, swallow the juice, and spit the solid fiber back out.

    I recently bought a juicer, as in, just the other day. It was about $35 at Wal-Mart, the smallest cheapest one, Black & Decker. I juiced broccoli. Suddenly, after juicing it (the broccoli stems, not the florets), after removing all that fiber, I suddenly loved it and wanted more of it. It's the fiber that causes that gagging sensation. The juice itself was really good, although it had a little bit of bitterness.

    I'm telling you that this is not imaginary, it's a normal response to the fiber in vegetables, and to other things in food that really are not edible. We aren't able to digest fiber. We are not designed to just go out and eat grass. That's why you can't acclimate to these things. They will always be disgusting, because they are objectively, externally disgusting as such.

    I never liked the texture of meat. I never liked how un-chewable it was. I would chew and chew and chew, and it would still be tough. But I used to love hot dogs. As an adult, I've done a lot of dietary research, and I found out that actually, eating muscle meat is something that modern societies do, but primitive societies don't. Primitive people seek out organ meats, and sometimes, they just discard the muscle meat as garbage. Muscle meat is tough and chewy and doesn't have much fat in it, and it's the least nutritious part of the animal. Organ meats are soft and tender and full of vitamins, much more vitamins than muscle meat. I've tried eating kidney, for instance, at a Chinese restaurant (an *authentic* Chinese restaurant), and it was soft and delicious and it practically melted in my mouth.

    Our bodies are programmed to like things that are good for us and dislike things that are bad for us; when we crave junk food, there's always a reason, something we're trying to seek, some nutrient (oftentimes that nutrient is saturated fat, which many people don't get enough of!). Meat-only diets are actually good for you. Some people even are using raw meat diets, although every time I've eaten raw meat, I've gotten parasites, so I'd say that's not a good place to start.

    It's possible to get processed meats that don't contain as many synthetic chemicals - I just recently tried all natural 'uncured' hot dogs, and they're very good.

    I forgot to mention: Weston Price (book author) says that cooking vegetables in butter usually makes them more palatable. It should be real butter made from milk, not fake butter made from vegetable oil.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retmeishka View Post
    Sorry for having bumped this thread, I was just digging through the 'health' section to look for things I was interested in.
    Actually kind of glad you did, I hadn't seriously thought about this in a while. Never got around to making many changes.

    Is the limited diet something that you have been doing for your entire life, since infancy, or is it something new that only started in the past few years or so?
    I think I was a picky infant but even more so around age 3.

    If you feel 'exhausted and foggy constantly,' I would ask: Are you currently using any medications for your depression and anxiety? If you are taking drugs, feeling exhausted and foggy is a side effect of prescription drugs. Doctors won't tell you about drug side effects. (*Edit: Quitting drugs is extremely dangerous. When people go into withdrawal from psychiatric drugs, they can commit suicide or homicide, or other horrible things happen, so it takes a long time to quit drugs safely.*)
    Yeah, and the fogginess is due at least in part to the meds. My doctor isn't willing to change anything unless someone other than me makes a case for it, which I kind of understand considering how paranoid and subjective I can be, but like...the last time I went back on Zoloft it was accidental, and I went very emotionally numb and couldn't sleep and didn't want to do anything, and didn't realize I'd been taking that instead of antibiotics until weeks later. I don't think this is completely my imagination.

    Anyway, I really appreciate your advice. Thank you!

  8. #18
    Senior Member Retmeishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by decrescendo View Post
    Yeah, and the fogginess is due at least in part to the meds. My doctor isn't willing to change anything unless someone other than me makes a case for it, which I kind of understand considering how paranoid and subjective I can be, but like...the last time I went back on Zoloft it was accidental, and I went very emotionally numb and couldn't sleep and didn't want to do anything, and didn't realize I'd been taking that instead of antibiotics until weeks later. I don't think this is completely my imagination.

    Anyway, I really appreciate your advice. Thank you!
    Yeah, it's not your imagination. The drugs make people go numb and turn into zombies, just walking around in a daze and not feeling any emotions and not caring about anything, or sleeping all the time. But quitting the drugs by yourself is almost impossible, because when you quit, you sort of... forget yourself. Even if you promise that you won't hurt yourself when you go into withdrawal, you forget promising that. People who go out in public and shoot into the crowds of people and then kill themselves are in withdrawal from psychiatric meds - every one of the shooters. If you try to quit the drugs, you have to have someone tagging along after you all day long asking you, 'Do you feel okay? How about now? And now?' because when the withdrawal kicks in, you go crazy and can't control yourself anymore.

    So, I passionately hate psychiatric drugs, but I also never tell anybody to quit them suddenly either. It takes a plan to slowly reduce the drug dosages, day by day, and observe every little detail of your symptoms - how your moods change, how your energy level changes, are you having any strange thoughts or hallucinations, anything at all, and if anything seems worrisome, you have to stop lowering the dosages and take a bit more of the drug again to slow down the withdrawal. I don't know how long it takes because I've never been on multiple drugs at once. I took Prozac, briefly, for one week, and quit it, and the withdrawal lasted longer than a month, maybe six weeks of withdrawal, after taking it for only one week at the lowest dose, then opening the pills and dumping out half of it because they were too strong for me, so I was taking only half of the lowest possible dose available - and still, six weeks of withdrawal. If I can stay in this forum without getting banned for doing nothing, then you'll frequently see me complaining about how much I hate mainstream medicine and drugs and the drug industry.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retmeishka View Post
    Yeah, it's not your imagination. The drugs make people go numb and turn into zombies, just walking around in a daze and not feeling any emotions and not caring about anything, or sleeping all the time. But quitting the drugs by yourself is almost impossible, because when you quit, you sort of... forget yourself. Even if you promise that you won't hurt yourself when you go into withdrawal, you forget promising that. People who go out in public and shoot into the crowds of people and then kill themselves are in withdrawal from psychiatric meds - every one of the shooters. If you try to quit the drugs, you have to have someone tagging along after you all day long asking you, 'Do you feel okay? How about now? And now?' because when the withdrawal kicks in, you go crazy and can't control yourself anymore.

    So, I passionately hate psychiatric drugs, but I also never tell anybody to quit them suddenly either. It takes a plan to slowly reduce the drug dosages, day by day, and observe every little detail of your symptoms - how your moods change, how your energy level changes, are you having any strange thoughts or hallucinations, anything at all, and if anything seems worrisome, you have to stop lowering the dosages and take a bit more of the drug again to slow down the withdrawal. I don't know how long it takes because I've never been on multiple drugs at once. I took Prozac, briefly, for one week, and quit it, and the withdrawal lasted longer than a month, maybe six weeks of withdrawal, after taking it for only one week at the lowest dose, then opening the pills and dumping out half of it because they were too strong for me, so I was taking only half of the lowest possible dose available - and still, six weeks of withdrawal. If I can stay in this forum without getting banned for doing nothing, then you'll frequently see me complaining about how much I hate mainstream medicine and drugs and the drug industry.
    I haven't come to any strong conclusions re: psychiatric drugs, but my gut feelings are pretty similar to yours. Not as concerned with withdrawal, though. I went off of Sertraline (generic Zoloft) cold turkey and had no discernible withdrawal symptoms. Accidentally doubling my dosage last month was bad -- had noticed a random spike in anxiety and insomnia and didn't realize what had happened until a week later. But it wasn't as bad as what you're describing. What I'm mainly concerned with are the more subtle effects; sometimes it seems to be like my organic self was frozen in some other dimension when I started medication and went on living an artificially sustained life in another, and I worry I can't wake that self up again and integrate the two dimensions.

    Very smart and well-meaning people have tried to explain to me why this is not a correct way of looking at it, and I've honestly tried to understand, but I just don't get it. I've brought this up on the forum before, too, and would be glad to hear more thoughts.

  10. #20
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    @decrescendo It's a gag reflex of certain foods right? I am guessing your tongue thinks of the food as foreign or invasive and wants you to spit it out (because the tongue isn't used to the taste/texture.)

    Have you tried slowly getting used to the texture? Or anything that has that remote texture will just set it off?

    I am asking because I developed a gag reflex when it comes to drinking milk (partly because of the taste and texture) even though I never had one until the end of high school. I had to forcefully make myself drink it. Like, a glass of milk would take me forever to drink, but a bowl of ice cream I can down in a few minutes kind of difference. If I had to drink milk, it needs to changed taste or texture for me to drink it in a few seconds.

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