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  1. #71
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    The conversation seems to have moved to how we adapt to diets over generations. So I have a question I have thought about in the past...

    Don't we all have a responsibility to eat tasty food so that our future generations can enjoy an adapted biology to it?

    Back in the days of early humanity, these foods were not a health threat but key to survival as highly concentrated calorie sources were harder to come by. High fat? Bring it on! Gotta stock up for winter.

    Nowadays, most of us don't have to worry about any calorie shortages. We eat the tasty foods for emotional reasons more than the fact that we actually need it biologically.
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  2. #72
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Oh please. How do teenagers manage to survive to adulthood outside of the U.S.?

    If they weren't getting enough calories, it's because of the public school system being cheap, and not giving generous enough portions of healthier foods.
    Taking "survive" literally is classic trolling.

    Of course they will "survive." The point is,

    "At Mukwonago High School in Wisconsin, for instance, football players -- who burn upwards of 3,000 calories a day -- led a boycott of the new federally mandated school lunch calorie limits, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports. Seventy percent of the 830 Mukwonago High students who normally buy lunch instead packed their own lunches in protest of the “one size fits all thing.” Middle schoolers in the district followed suit, with nearly half refusing to buy lunch."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1893936.html

    Now you'll say there's something wrong because the quote came from Huffington's site.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    If the idea that people with different ancestries do better on different diets is true then it is not surprising nor particularly informative that the Japanese and Mediterraneans do best on their traditional diets.

    As for "healthy" whole grains, if we look at say Pacific Islanders they lived in excellent health for centuries without a whole grain in sight, they lived on seafood, pork, fruit, tubers and coconuts which are packed full of artery clogging saturated fat!. Yet poor health and obesity only became prevelant when grains and sugar were introduced by Europeans. I think it is perfectly acceptable and achievable for most people to exclude grains entirely without negative health effects (as long as the grains are being replaced with something nutritious).

    What I would like to see is more research into the hormonal effects of different foods, instead of looking just at macronutrients or calories. I think if this was done there would be some surprising results, where certain high calorie "bad" foods like say peanuts (which aren't seen favourably by most diets) actual have a beneficial hormonal effect and improve satiety and energy expenditure overall.

    Food that leaves you satisfied and energetic = good, food that makes you tired, hungry and/or craving = bad.
    I could agree with this, though I'd expand further by saying it's the excess consumption of things like HFCS, trans-fats, processed junk foods, and too much table sugar to ALL people.

    Sugar is more natural than HFCS (which was show to cause FOUR TIMES the weight gain in rats, drinking sugar water versus HFCS water, in one Princeton study) but you still aren't supposed to eat it all day long in everything. It's fine to put a couple of teaspoons in your morning coffee, or to have one slice of cake for dessert, but refined sugar has been added to breads, cereals, and all that.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Taking "survive" literally is classic trolling.

    Of course they will "survive." The point is,

    "At Mukwonago High School in Wisconsin, for instance, football players -- who burn upwards of 3,000 calories a day -- led a boycott of the new federally mandated school lunch calorie limits, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports. Seventy percent of the 830 Mukwonago High students who normally buy lunch instead packed their own lunches in protest of the “one size fits all thing.” Middle schoolers in the district followed suit, with nearly half refusing to buy lunch."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1893936.html

    Now you'll say there's something wrong because the quote came from Huffington's site.
    I'm not trolling. You're the one who said teens can't live off of "rabbit food" but there are many countries outside of the U.S. that produce well-fed, healthy adults in Europe and Asia, and even in South America and some parts of Africa, without giving kids sugared refined white bread with pizza and HFCS in their syrupy peaches and pears every day for lunch.

    There are ways of giving more calories that don't include frozen pizza, HFCS, and refined white bread.

    So it's not about "rabbit food" it's actually about actual better quality grains, less sugar, etc.

    Football players burn a lot more calories than the average teen. Their parents can afford to put them into football uniforms, so they can afford to pack extra foods for their young athletes.

    Frankly, teens are huge compared to what they were 10-15 years ago when I was in high school. Teenagers are FAT. Give me a break.

    I even drank sweet tea throughout my teens as a Southerner, and I still didn't have a weight problem. My calorie control was never an issue until I was well into my twenties. These kids are eating chips, candy, junk food, sodas, Gatorade...

    Parental responsibility is part of it. My parents wouldn't give me extra money for vending machines, and I ate lunch at the baked potato bar, where they offered potatoes, salads, skim milk...when I was in high school there were three different lines. There was the fast food line with pizza, burgers, and chicken patty sandwiches with fries; there was the "homecooked meal" line that had stuff like a meat with two veg plate, like meatloaf and green beans and mashed potatoes or something, then there was the baked potato bar which had salad choices as well.

    I would go through the home-cooked meal line sometimes if I was extra hungry, but I actually didn't enjoy the fast food lane, I thought it was gross. I guess I have my family to thank for that?

  5. #75
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    My tone? I said I'm sorry if I sound like an asshole and acknowledged the presence of lots of ethnic markets in SoCal and I'm just stating information, not necessarily directed toward you, but the thread in general.

    I sometimes think people imagine things in my posts that aren't there. I've had people say everything to me to "yes you are upset" to "your tone is abrasive."

    I think a lot of what people get upset about on the Internet has a lot to do with perception of the reader and people taking things personally.

    I know my problem is taking things personally, and I've been working on that, but I definitely am not trying to argue with you in any way.
    I refuse to debate this issue in this thread, as it is off topic and I do believe that there is a multi-page thread along those lines elsewhere anyway

    my point is, the issue is far more complex than a simplistic situation could solve... as most things, unfortunately, are
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  6. #76
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Unhealthy food full of sugar, corn syrup and chemicals should be banned.
    Healthy living should be promoted in schools, media etc.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I refuse to debate this issue in this thread, as it is off topic and I do believe that there is a multi-page thread along those lines elsewhere anyway

    my point is, the issue is far more complex than a simplistic situation could solve... as most things, unfortunately, are
    Debate? There's not a debate. You read something into my post that wasn't there. I do agree that the situation is complex.

  8. #78
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Debate? There's not a debate. You read something into my post that wasn't there. I do agree that the situation is complex.
    what I'm not debating is the tone

    the issue is what the thread is about
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    what I'm not debating is the tone

    the issue is what the thread is about
    You're the one who keeps talking about the tone. I see you as the one with the problem, with all due respect. I'm sorry you took offense to what I said, but I re-read both of my posts, and I sincerely think there's nothing to debate, and I don't know why you keep bringing it up.

    I would just like to exit this conversation, because I'm finding it very awkward.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I dont believe its possible to make it illegal, even if it were possible what would the public sancted consequences be or punitive responses be as opposed to the natural consequences which already unavoidably occur anyway?

    Although I do think that it might be a good idea to make entitlement to certain benefits or publically funded/tax funded employment could be made contingent upon physical health and fitness. First and foremost I believe that should be a personal responsibility but I suspect that the provision of some sort of subsidy or service to those struggling to meet with the minimum standards would be liable to be supported by the public if the withdrawal of subsistence were a real possibility faced by people bordering disqualification.

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