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  1. #81
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    I have to say, for some reason women are way more vicious to other women than men are towards other men. Like the image you posted above... Some chubbier girls call skinny girls too skinny, and some skinnier girls call chubbier girls too fat. It seems that women are way more likely to judge other women than men are to judge other men!


  2. #82
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    I have to say, for some reason women are way more vicious to other women than men are towards other men. Like the image you posted above... Some chubbier girls call skinny girls too skinny, and some skinnier girls call chubbier girls too fat. It seems that women are way more likely to judge other women than men are to judge other men!
    Yeah. I think that's an indication of an underlying level of sexism. Instead of affirming each other and becoming mutually empowered, we have been divided and conquered. Women now compete with each other for (the approval of) men and other women instead of being equals in power and evaluating both men and the power structure. That's also what you get in a hierarchical political system, but I digress.

    Men do compete with each other for women, but I think it should be more that way than women competing for men. That's more natural. Everywhere (or at least in most species) it's the men who have to be approved of for mate selection by the women, for the practical reason that the women bear most of the consequences of mating. Humans are no exception. Since we are most affected, it is more important to us to make a choice of a mate who will treat us well. So consequently we should have maximal power of choice in both biological attraction and social evaluation. If we are competing for men's attention we are sacrificing ourselves. Of course there is a healthy minimal amount of competition, like being intelligent, making the most of our appearance, being fit, responsible, treating men well, etc. But this just inspires us to be the best people we can be, not conform to some standard.

  3. #83
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Yeah. I think that's an indication of an underlying level of sexism. Instead of affirming each other and becoming mutually empowered, we have been divided and conquered. Women now compete with each other for (the approval of) men and other women instead of being equals in power and evaluating both men and the power structure. That's also what you get in a hierarchical political system, but I digress.
    I noticed just how bad this level of competition was when I got pregnant. It's insane how judgmental other women are about how someone chooses to raise their child. Oh, and that skinny thing runs over into that, too. "OMG, you are too skinny for being X months along! You need to go eat more." No. Just no.


  4. #84
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    I noticed just how bad this level of competition was when I got pregnant. It's insane how judgmental other women are about how someone chooses to raise their child. Oh, and that skinny thing runs over into that, too. "OMG, you are too skinny for being X months along! You need to go eat more." No. Just no.
    Yeah. meddlesome annoying people. Btw I edited my post with some more commentary, as is typical.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    As long as comments don't involve a component, explicit or implied, that someone *should* *must* or *needs* to do something about their appearance, I don't know if I really find commentary on looks to be inherently offensive.

    But it's probably best I just leave people be because apparently it hurts people's feelings/causes issues. I have told people they are skinny before, though I don't remember if I brought it up or they did. I don't know if it upset them.

    I remember someone on the forum made a comment on my eyebrows once, and someone else came in and told that person they were being rude, which totally confounded me, because it never occurred to me as rude and also do people really need to step in to tell other people they're rude? Rude is pretty subjective*. I do have bushy eyebrows.

    I guess if I got the message "tame those eyebrows" 30 times a day it'd get annoying.

    I get annoyed if people start telling me how I *should* dress (well meaning gay guys - please don't do this). But if someone just told me "you'd look good wearing this" I don't know if that would bother me. I don't think so.

    *Certain circles allow for and encourage this sort of group evaluation, like body building, where stats like weight and height and commentary on improving certain areas is generally welcome. That said, I guess telling people they're rude is just another opinion.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  6. #86
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Harmony View Post
    I noticed just how bad this level of competition was when I got pregnant. It's insane how judgmental other women are about how someone chooses to raise their child. Oh, and that skinny thing runs over into that, too. "OMG, you are too skinny for being X months along! You need to go eat more." No. Just no.
    Oh Lord Jeebus! This kind of shit plays out shamefully in some internet feminist circles...it's known as the "mommy wars," and it's surely the most awful thing ever to come out of women's discourse.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #87
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    now...

  8. #88
    Senior Member Santosha's Avatar
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    People judge themselves in relation to other people as a way to form identity. I didn't read through the entire thread, but I feel like it can probably be summed up as this. Even when we say "look at that shitty person with their shitty evaluations" what are we doing? Trying to set ourselves apart as the "non-judgemental, less-shitty" people? ahahaha. Anyhow, I think the fat/thin deal is kind of a pendulum effect. Most kids are skinny, knobby lil creatures with high metabolism and lots of energy. When I was growing up, the majority was this. So at the earliest ages of development, being a fat or chubbier child was an ostracizing experience. Eventually these chubbier people banned together to right the wrongs of social perception (ahaha, another thing I tend to laugh at) or atleast emphasize that many women are fat and beautiful (which I would totally agree with). Perhaps the funniest of all is that while women wage a merciless war against their own gender, many men are happy if they gain access to some vagina at all. SO, it's definately not worth getting anyones panties in a bundle. "I wanted to change the world but realized the only thing I could change is myself." Fuck waging a war on what others think, focus on not letting others thoughts effect you. Easier said than done ofcourse.
    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  9. #89
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboo View Post
    That said, I guess telling people they're rude is just another opinion.
    I can understand this. Half the time I don't really notice if people are being rude, unless it triggers me somehow. And then I overreact. :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Fuck waging a war on what others think, focus on not letting others thoughts effect you. Easier said than done ofcourse.
    And this definitely worth doing.

    However, I do think it is important to encourage good behavior and discourage bad behavior. We have to have some sort of standards for how to treat people, and discussion about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Even when we say "look at that shitty person with their shitty evaluations" what are we doing? Trying to set ourselves apart as the "non-judgemental, less-shitty" people? ahahaha.
    Pretty much. Well, we all have a judging function. Which means making judgments of social value is important. We just shouldn't overdo it and get into other people's business and put each other down. (Yes, I am so much better than the people who do this! As I've made an entire thread criticizing them. )

  10. #90
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I can understand this. Half the time I don't really notice if people are being rude, unless it triggers me somehow. And then I overreact. :/
    Yeah, I can understand that. So other people saying "you're being rude" is a group correcting behavior. And a potentially valuable one, because people can benefit from that. Unsolicited advice has value. Though I think it becomes problematic when people start speaking as if certain behaviors are proper or correct in all cases.

    However, I do think it is important to encourage good behavior and discourage bad behavior. We have to have some sort of standards for how to treat people, and discussion about it.
    Of course, good and bad are subjective. I think there should be many sets of standards. Of course, individual level treatment is ideal, but in real life you have to work off generalities.

    Some people like if you notice their new hair style, or comment that they look like they've lost weight. They might even be hurt if you don't notice (which is also unfair if they think they are entitled to other people's opinions when other people don't care). Other people don't want to be addressed about that stuff ever. Other people appreciate comments when they out of line - especially if they are non-threatening/controlling.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

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