The Paleo Diet

[funkadelik]

What are the merits to this diet? Is it good enough to just go low-carb/complex carb and see the same results?

For those who don't know, the Paleo diet seeks to eliminate all grains, beans, dairy and processed foods. Basically what you do eat are meats, fish, eggs, vegetables, fruits, seeds and nuts. And very little salt. It's whole spiel is that you "eat what Paleolithic man ate" (though I don't know how much cavemen ate eggs, honestly).

Sounds pretty hard, but if high-protein, high-fibre is your goal (which is mine) it seems like the golden diet.

I'm wondering if anyone here's had some experience (or known someone who's had experience) with this diet who can give me some pointers/advice before I decide to commit to this hard-core.

 

[Randomnity]

I think the logic behind the paleo diet is a little naive - yes, we evolved based on eating different foods back then, but evolution really just drives you towards things that help you survive long enough to have lots of children. That's all. So it's not logical to say that eating caveman foods will help you live to 75 instead of 70 or something - there weren't many 70 year olds around back in the day.

But a lot of it is decent advice, and not necessarily any more wrong than any other diet idea. It seems like most diets are very poorly supported by any sort of real evidence - including the recommended ones. That's why you get all this handwaving about "it's our natural diet" and so on.

Eating lots of vegetables, eggs, fruits, nuts and seeds is almost certainly good. Too many grains, particularly simple one, are probably bad. Too much meat may be bad, particularly red meat, but the benefits of the other whole foods might make up for it.

My idea of the healthiest diet is eating large amounts of a wide variety of vegetables with reasonable amounts of whole/complex grains and meat/protein - as little processed foods as possible. I doubt going to the extremes of a paleo diet is really any healthier than that, and I suspect that it is less healthy due to the vast amounts of meat/butter.

 

[Rasofy]

I find it quite interesting, but I've never tried. Our organism processes protein and fat much better than carb, so we function better when we restrict our carb intake. Carb is pretty important for pre and post workout meals though.

 

[Stanton Moore]

I think the trick is not to eliminate particular food group, with the exception of processed foods and most oils.
The agricultural revolution conferred a survival advantage, because the human poplulation exploded as a result. So I don't see grains in and of themselves as bad at all. It's the way modern humans over-consume and don't exercise that leads to bad outcomes.
Personally, knowing how animals are raised these days, I would avoid any diet that emphasizes meat. I would eat more eggs if I knew someone with chickens. 'yard birds' make the best tasting eggs.

 

[UniqueMixture]

What concerns me about the paleontology diet is the exposure to carcinogens in meat. I'm unsure if it is thinking "long term" in that respect. Though the increased antioxidants from berries and the anti-carcinogenic effects of most dark greens may compensate for this. For me, it is cost prohibitive to eat this way though. Also keep in mind that increased fiber can interfere with protein absorbtion. I am not a nutritionist however, so perhaps it's compensated for in other ways in the diet. I was concerned about getting enough fiber to avoid colon problems in my 50s also.

 

[Such Irony]

I'm skeptical about eliminating grains altogether. Grains are healthy as long as they are whole grains. It's the refined grains that aren't as healthy- things like white Wonder bread.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

I believe in the Arnold Schwarzenegger diet. Eat normal foods and exercise.

It works incredibly well. Better so that 99% of the other diets.

 

[UniqueMixture]

I'm skeptical about eliminating grains altogether. Grains are healthy as long as they are whole grains. It's the refined grains that aren't as healthy- things like white Wonder bread.

The argument is that grains do not provide benefits that can be better provided for with fibrous vegetables and they interfere with metabolization of lipids. I've yet to see research on these claims though so I think it's kind of a "let's create a fad/craze so I can make money" thing

 

[funkadelik]

My idea of the healthiest diet is eating large amounts of a wide variety of vegetables with reasonable amounts of whole/complex grains and meat/protein - as little processed foods as possible. I doubt going to the extremes of a paleo diet is really any healthier than that, and I suspect that it is less healthy due to the vast amounts of meat/butter.

Mmm...I was with you up until that point. I don't think butter is a part of the Paleo diet (being from an udder and all) and I also get the impression that one isn't supposed to live solely off of ribeyes and pork belly. Fish and poultry seem to be preferred meats from what I can tell so far. I'm not trying to say it's more healthy than the diet you adhere to - which seems very reasonable and, to my better knowledge, very healthy - but I don't want to go so far as to say it's less healthy, either.

At any rate, I definitely agree that the concept behind the diet is painfully naive. I'm really not all that sold on it at all. How do we know that our ancient ancestors were healthy? They ate what they could find. Who knows if what they could find were the best for them? It's based on a lot of assumptions veiled under the explanation of evolution.

Personally, knowing how animals are raised these days, I would avoid any diet that emphasizes meat. I would eat more eggs if I knew someone with chickens. 'yard birds' make the best tasting eggs.

I work in an organic butcher shop so I'm not concerned about getting good meat. However, not everyone's in my position and I can definitely see how it's not the most feasible or inexpensive of diets to maintain.

I believe in the Arnold Schwarzenegger diet. Eat normal foods and exercise.

It works incredibly well. Better so that 99% of the other diets.

But, at least here in North America, "normal foods" are utter shit. I'm totally with you (and him) on the exercise thing. But that's only half the story, right?

The argument is that grains do not provide benefits that can be better provided for with fibrous vegetables and they interfere with metabolization of lipids. I've yet to see research on these claims though so I think it's kind of a "let's create a fad/craze so I can make money" thing

Yeah, but who's making the money here? The meat industry? Not if you buy from small farmers.

But I've read some pretty heated articles that vilify grains. Don't know who to believe, really. The viewpoints of the popular medical community is not something I fully trust, so when people come out with their own data like that concerning grains, I'm skeptical, but still open-minded. Doctors don't always have all the answers, in my experience.

 

[UniqueMixture]

Paleontology diet is usually in conjunction with p90x it's a classic sales strategy of making your clients see you as holding value that you need from THEM to get your worth from. You see similar strategies with cult leaders for example or other "cults of personality" like keirsey or Jung or anything.

 

[SD45T-2]

Mmm...I was with you up until that point. I don't think butter is a part of the Paleo diet (being from an udder and all)

That is correct.

and I also get the impression that one isn't supposed to live solely off of ribeyes and pork belly. Fish and poultry seem to be preferred meats from what I can tell so far.

Also correct.

There is a personal trainer in my area who advocates what he calls the paleo zone diet, which is the paleo diet foods (fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts, meat/fish/poultry) in the 40% carbs/30% fat/30% protein ratio of the zone diet. I have not tried it myself and I can't comment on its merits.

 

[Betty Blue]

That is correct.

Also correct.

There is a personal trainer in my area who advocates what he calls the paleo zone diet, which is the paleo diet foods (fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts, meat/fish/poultry) in the 40% carbs/30% fat/30% protein ratio of the zone diet. I have not tried it myself and I can't comment on its merits.

Thats the diet i used to be on...except it was 30% healthy fats (unsaturated) but even then there will be some amount of saturated fat. It was difficult for me because i am a veggie and they also didn't agree with soya being in the diet so i ate masses of quorn and other high protein meat alternatives. I found the diet very difficult to maintain but it might have been because i got one day off the diet per week.
I found the reduction of carbs the hardest part... i did the diet for 9-12 months and still craved the carbs right till the end of it, i have heard that others get used to it quickly though.

 

[Randomnity]

Mmm...I was with you up until that point. I don't think butter is a part of the Paleo diet (being from an udder and all) and I also get the impression that one isn't supposed to live solely off of ribeyes and pork belly. Fish and poultry seem to be preferred meats from what I can tell so far. I'm not trying to say it's more healthy than the diet you adhere to - which seems very reasonable and, to my better knowledge, very healthy - but I don't want to go so far as to say it's less healthy, either.

Oh, I don't adhere to that diet at all. I'm too lazy/easily tempted for that, plus I hate the d-word. It just seems like the healthiest from what I know about food.

I might have been getting some of it confused with atkins. I know you're not supposed to eat much/any dairy - I thought animal fats like butter were fine, though. Still, I don't think non-red meat, while probably heathier than red meat, is necessarily healthy in huge quantities either. My impression of the paleo diet is that they're in huge quantities, which can be hard on your kidneys and who knows what else. I don't think there's enough data out there to really say any more than that either way, though.

 

[StephMC]

If you really want to learn more about it, The Deadly Harvest is a great book. I'm currently striving to cut out sugar/too many carbs/too much dairy and focus on a high vegetable/protein/nuts diet. It's freakin hard. But I'm doing it one step at a time, and moving on when that step becomes more sustainable. Another awesome thing about this book is he proposes a few "steps" too, so it's not like he's telling you to go cold turkey.

At the moment, my priority is more vegetables and buying meats from a local farmer with grass-fed animals. I don't think I have it in me to become vegetarian, but I do want to make an effort that the meats I support come from well cared for animals.

 

[SD45T-2]

I might have been getting some of it confused with atkins. I know you're not supposed to eat much/any dairy - I thought animal fats like butter were fine, though. Still, I don't think non-red meat, while probably heathier than red meat, is necessarily healthy in huge quantities either. My impression of the paleo diet is that they're in huge quantities, which can be hard on your kidneys and who knows what else. I don't think there's enough data out there to really say any more than that either way, though.

From what I understand, there's a lot of debate among the adherents of the paleo diet as to what the ideal ratios are. Some lean heavily toward the fruits/vegetables side, some swing the other way toward Atkins-esque territory, and some (like the guy I mentioned) are more middle-of-the-road.

 

[funkadelik]

Oh, I don't adhere to that diet at all. I'm too lazy/easily tempted for that, plus I hate the d-word. It just seems like the healthiest from what I know about food.

I guess the "d-word" has pretty negative connotations, but I'm trying to look at it from like the very basic definition of "diet" meaning "the things you eat." Just trying to find the healthiest way of eating cause, I dunno, I'm paranoid about my health, I guess. But just about everyone has a different idea of what is the healthiest diet you should adhere to...except when it comes down to things like simple carbs and processed foods.

But vegetarians insist that meat is terrible for you and other people say soy kills or that bread is eroding our bodies from the inside out. And don't even get me started on the raw food movement!

Perhaps I'm overanalyzing things, though.

At the moment, my priority is more vegetables and buying meats from a local farmer with grass-fed animals. I don't think I have it in me to become vegetarian, but I do want to make an effort that the meats I support come from well cared for animals.

Yeah really, if anything, buying meats that come from well-raised, grass-fed animals (bonus if they're locally raised) is the key to a healthy meat-eating diet. I frequently go vegetarian if I can't eat meat that I don't have a general back-story on. Sounds a bit elitist, but I've come to the conclusion that it's an important switch one has to make. There's too much shit going on in the conventional meat scene for my liking.

Thats the diet i used to be on...except it was 30% healthy fats (unsaturated) but even then there will be some amount of saturated fat. It was difficult for me because i am a veggie and they also didn't agree with soya being in the diet so i ate masses of quorn and other high protein meat alternatives. I found the diet very difficult to maintain but it might have been because i got one day off the diet per week.
I found the reduction of carbs the hardest part... i did the diet for 9-12 months and still craved the carbs right till the end of it, i have heard that others get used to it quickly though.

What's quorn?

There is a personal trainer in my area who advocates what he calls the paleo zone diet, which is the paleo diet foods (fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts, meat/fish/poultry) in the 40% carbs/30% fat/30% protein ratio of the zone diet. I have not tried it myself and I can't comment on its merits.

Thanks for your helpful input!

 

[SD45T-2]

What's quorn?

I was thinking that perhaps it's a Korn tribute band, but then I decided to look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn

 

[Randomnity]

I was thinking that perhaps it's a Korn tribute band, but then I decided to look it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn

that sounds um...appetizing.

 

[Ism]

I've heard of this! A friend of a friend did this after he contracted a parasite and had a heavily restricted diet because of it. Or maybe he could only eat honey, and graduated to that diet when he healed so that way he could transition more easily into normal foods again.

Like randomnity has said, though, the most beneficial thing is probably just avoiding processed foods.

 

[kyuuei]

The good aspect of diets: they make people be more aware and conscious of their food.

The bad aspect of diets: They're a LOT more work than merely eating what is convenient now-a-days.

There are common sense aspects everyone knows--processed foods bad, veggies good, etc. But it doesn't matter how healthy it sounds--if it costs $1000 a month to eat healthy hard-to-find foods from whole food stores and hours to prepare, no one's going to do it no matter how old you live to be. I don't want to live to be 112 years old if it meant I spent 5 hours a day worrying about what I ate. I'd rather live to be 75 and have spent it well.

The paleo diet itself, I think, is a good thing because it brings attention to processed foods. Moderation is the key to everything though... If you only eat what Cavemen ate you'd be missing out on important nutrients we have available now. Oats are not the devil just because there's a process involved in making them. Bread is not going to hurt your body when eaten in moderation. It's a good jump-start diet.. if you want to spend two weeks changing up your metabolism by changing your diet drastically, this would be a good diet to go on for that.

I just don't really find it feasible long-term.