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  1. #71
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    But seriously, they weren't THAT much better with the old litterboxes. They would still pee on laundry if they felt like it, even then. It's just gotten worse. In fact, I got the Litter Robot thinking that they were protesting that the litter in the old ones wasn't always spotless (because we only cleaned it out once a day). What the hell, cats?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  2. #72
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    But seriously, they weren't THAT much better with the old litterboxes. They would still pee on laundry if they felt like it, even then. It's just gotten worse. In fact, I got the Litter Robot thinking that they were protesting that the litter in the old ones wasn't always spotless (because we only cleaned it out once a day). What the hell, cats?



    Welp - they do hate stinky litter boxes, but if you clean them out once a day (twice is ideal but i don't do that either), it ...shouldnt be that big a problem. That sounds like something else is up with the litter box (and this is where I'd need you to fill out a loooong questionnaire to do a proper diagnosis). Also...one of the first things to do when your cats pee outside the box is to check em with the vet for Urinary Tract Disease (sample of urine to see if they've got an infection, basically)

    Wrt the new box though, cats are at their most vulnerable when they do their business. Now, imagine - you're going to the bathroom, doing your thing and suddenly this thing behind you starts whizzing and buzzing and cleaning up...and pushes you out of the litter box...spooks the living hell out of you!

    Most cats I know do not take kindly to that and will in fact seek quieter pastures to do their business in peace. Some confident cats are unphased by it and do use it. But...there are several reasons that most cat behaviourists aren't fond of automated litter boxes:

    A) they encourage peeing problems in the house, like you're experiencing, for the reason listed above
    B) they cause neglect on the owner's part to actually check if the litter box is still functioning as a litter box (all technical devices can break down and the more complicated a device, the more likely)
    C) They also cause an owner not to pay attention to what comes out of their cat. Now, while that may not be appetising, it is vital information as to the health of your cat and one of the first things that your vet will ask you about when you bring em in.



    ....


    Take comfort in the fact that this is the most common cat behavioral problem out there. Unfortunately, it's also the one with the most possible causes, so you need some serious intel to really tell what the trigger is and solve the problem, usually.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #73
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Well.. not to be argumentative but the Robot won't run with a cat in it. Their weight trips a timer and it cleans itself 7 minutes later- if they step on the step in the meantime, the timer starts over.

    But sigh, I'm still in the 90 days during which I can send it back, and I might have to do that. Counterpoint: I DON'T WANNA
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #74
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Well.. not to be argumentative but the Robot won't run with a cat in it. Their weight trips a timer and it cleans itself 7 minutes later- if they step on the step in the meantime, the timer starts over.

    But sigh, I'm still in the 90 days during which I can send it back, and I might have to do that. Counterpoint: I DON'T WANNA


    I get that. Im no fan of the litter box either. But I'll be honest - if I were to be the one retraining your cat, I'd request you use a simple litter box. You really don't need fancy equipment that can scare the cat when they already need convincing.

    And while I know that most models won't run with a cat in it, they do run right after a cat has been..and if you have a multicat household and the other one is lining up to sit down as that thing starts cleaning...I've just seen too many horror stories regarding automated boxes. Feel free to check out the amazon reviews, for instance. If you can return it...I might. You can always try again later, once you figured out what in fact is setting them off?

    Personally, I set up my litter boxes in such a way that it takes no effort - I have a little garbage can next to it (check out the cat genie!) that I change every so often and that keeps all the odors trapped, I use clumping litter to make it easy and an open grate scooper. It takes me 2 minutes to clean out the box, that way. Granted, Im also lucky that most of mine go outside (I have an inside box for when it freezes outside and they cannot dig in the ground).
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #75
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    @Amargith, thanks so much for getting back to me, the wall mounted posts are such a great idea for limited spaces. I'll try out a variety of sisal stuff and see how he likes them.. stores here have fairly decent return policies, so whatever he doesn't like I can probably bring back. I'll check out the enzymatic cleaners at the petstore, too. Good call. I used to use those when Jack missed the back of his box years ago (he always insisted on peeing standing ALL the way up).

    I'll go shopping in the next week or so, & keep ya posted. Cricket's culture's finally negative (confirmed the other day), so he's got run of the bedroom for now til I can Cricket-proof some other things over the weekend.


    You're the best resource, lady.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  6. #76
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    @Lexicon - anytime !

    Oh and to get him to use the scratching posts, brush him and use the hair to rub along the scratching surface. Works even better than catnip! I also (especially with kittens) 'hang them' from the scratching post by picking them up and sliding them quickly along the post, mimicking a fall. The automatic reflex to hang on will make the claws come out (it can take a few tries depending on the kitten) and they instantly get that this is an awesome place to sink in their nails.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #77
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    *scratches at @Amargith's door*

    *waits patiently on the steps*



    This Bombay-Siamese mix is a goddamned weasel-monkey-kangaroo-catmonster...

    Ok, so he totally understands 'no.' Usually he's very good at immediately stopping/not repeating the undesired behavior when firmly told, 'no.'

    Except in the morning, when he wants to eat, and I'm sleeping. Or, if I'm sleeping late and he's done sleep and therefore, obviously, I should be done sleep as well, to play.

    He bites my hair.
    It's a super short pixie cut, but he still manages to grab a few strands at the crown and pull on them when I'm totally unconscious. He's pulled a few single hairs actually out at the root, but that's fortunately rare. I tell him NO, and, even if it's around his breakfast time, I wait at least 10+ minutes after his misbehavior to feed him, to avoid positive association with biting my hair. Naturally, this can mess up my ability to get back to sleep sometimes, but, if it will help him learn that biting my hair won't get him breakfast right away, it's worth it.

    If it's AFTER breakfast and he's being a little shit and wanting me up for playtime, it's gotten to the point that I have resorted to using a little water bottle to spray him while saying NO, to make him stop. He does stop, but comes right back only minutes later to bite my hair again.

    At the moment, there's a bunch of furniture etc getting taken apart/moved around downstairs, so letting him out of the bedroom after breakfast/before I'm awake for the day is not an option right now, because he steals/plays with/tries to eat EVERYTHING, & the risk of injury is too high if he's left unsupervised.

    So, I guess my question is this: is the water bottle repetition the only [possibly] viable option right now? I really want to break this hair biting thing before it becomes an ingrained habit.

    I know things are probably busy with the holidays and stuff, so, whenever you have time, obviously. No rush. I'll keep fighting the good fight in the meantime.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  8. #78
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    *scratches at @Amargith's door*

    *waits patiently on the steps*



    This Bombay-Siamese mix is a goddamned weasel-monkey-kangaroo-catmonster...

    Ok, so he totally understands 'no.' Usually he's very good at immediately stopping/not repeating the undesired behavior when firmly told, 'no.'

    Except in the morning, when he wants to eat, and I'm sleeping. Or, if I'm sleeping late and he's done sleep and therefore, obviously, I should be done sleep as well, to play.

    He bites my hair.
    It's a super short pixie cut, but he still manages to grab a few strands at the crown and pull on them when I'm totally unconscious. He's pulled a few single hairs actually out at the root, but that's fortunately rare. I tell him NO, and, even if it's around his breakfast time, I wait at least 10+ minutes after his misbehavior to feed him, to avoid positive association with biting my hair. Naturally, this can mess up my ability to get back to sleep sometimes, but, if it will help him learn that biting my hair won't get him breakfast right away, it's worth it.

    If it's AFTER breakfast and he's being a little shit and wanting me up for playtime, it's gotten to the point that I have resorted to using a little water bottle to spray him while saying NO, to make him stop. He does stop, but comes right back only minutes later to bite my hair again.

    At the moment, there's a bunch of furniture etc getting taken apart/moved around downstairs, so letting him out of the bedroom after breakfast right now is not an option because he steals/plays with/tries to eat EVERYTHING, & the risk of injury is too high if he's left unsupervised.

    So, I guess my question is this: is the water bottle repetition the only viable option right now? I really want to break this hair biting thing before it becomes an ingrained habit.

    I know things are probably busy with the holidays and stuff, so, whenever you have time, obviously. No rush. I'll keep fighting the good fight in the meantime.
    I happen to be online

    When it comes to this kind of stuff...I tend to be a little bit on the un PC wagon. So, see if you're comfortable doing this.

    First off - the water bottle thing is totally dependent on how much he experiences that as a punishment. From the sound of it - if it's supposed to work as a punishment, it's not doing a great job.

    I'm personally a fan of having a bond with my cat. And that swings both ways, with positive experiences AND negative ones. What I mean is the following:

    I have a big white tom, named Falcor. He has this tendency to come cuddle me in the bed. Im absolutely fine with that. But he also demands active cuddles. I'm good with that, but I also - like you - reserve the right to not indulge or stop. He then will lick my hand - my boyfriend automatically pets him when he does that, which is why he learnt that - if I don't respond to that, he'll gently bite me. Or try to. He no longer does this with me, much. Because I just whack him. On the nose, if I can. He's actually taken to biting wayyyy softer and then running off scared, and then stopped it for the most part (I'm not *as* consistent as I should be coz I'm sleepy still - damn them for using our weak moments!)

    While you cannot dictate how a cat interacts with the environment (and therefore have to let the 'environment' teach him ) due to them not being a pack animal, you can certainly negotiate how they interact with you. Now, you can mitigate this by making sure he has plenty of play time and room and all the other stuff that he definitely needs as an alternative to doing this shit. But honestly, it's like a kid. You don't let your child pull out your hair, either. And I'm not above intimidation or even a small whack to drive that point home if they're not understanding it otherwise. You are bigger and stronger. And maybe it's time that he learnt that he's an idiot if he provokes a bigger animal than him. Another option, if you're up for it, is to just walk away. Get up violently and walk away, ignoring the crap out of him for like at least 10 minutes. Like, instantly. It's attention he wants, so take away the ONE thing he's trying to get or make it SO unpleasant that he'll think twice next time. If you're going to walk away, I'd do it already when he's not even near my hair, but just going for it. The whacking I'd time *just* as he does it, so he *really* knows that that is exactly what triggers it. And make sure it's unpleasant - not another game to play. Ignore him otherwise -no screaming, no eye contact, continue sleeping if you can. NO reward whatsoever.

    Personally, whacking them (gently) is easier and you get to keep snoozing so...your choice
    That said, with the whacking, I do make up later to re-establish that it is safe to be around me, and to drive home the point of 'this ONLY happens when you can't take no for an answer in this very specific situation.'

    I've also taken to growling softly or saying 'Hela! (dutch reprimand) (but you can also use your 'no' or even a bell if you like) as a warning sign that the whack will follow if they keep it up, so that we no longer need to resort to that - I just need to make the noise.

    What works for each cat is individual, depending on what motivates them, and it depends greatly on the accuracy of the owner to administer the deterrent at just the right time, so the sky is really the limit on what you use, as long as you follow the baselines of how to discourage the behaviour. You know it works when you see the behaviour diminishing at first and then dying out. I rarely need to make that noise nowadays - though I still get licked (coz I don't punish him at this point yet) and just slightly nuzzled/nibbled (and then he storms off coz he *knows* what will likely follow if he does that harder and sticks around)

    And for the record - you're learning these tricks of the trade quick, when i look over the preventative steps you're already taking. Kudos
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”
    Likes cascadeco liked this post

  9. #79
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I happen to be online

    When it comes to this kind of stuff...I tend to be a little bit on the un PC wagon. So, see if you're comfortable doing this.

    First off - the water bottle thing is totally dependent on how much he experiences that as a punishment. From the sound of it - if it's supposed to work as a punishment, it's not doing a great job.

    I'm personally a fan of having a bond with my cat. And that swings both ways, with positive experiences AND negative ones. What I mean is the following:

    I have a big white tom, named Falcor. He has this tendency to come cuddle me in the bed. Im absolutely fine with that. But he also demands active cuddles. I'm good with that, but I also - like you - reserve the right to not indulge or stop. He then will lick my hand - my boyfriend automatically pets him when he does that, which is why he learnt that - if I don't respond to that, he'll gently bite me. Or try to. He no longer does this with me, much. Because I just whack him. On the nose, if I can. He's actually taken to biting wayyyy softer and then running off scared, and then stopped it for the most part (I'm not *as* consistent as I should be coz I'm sleepy still - damn them for using our weak moments!)

    While you cannot dictate how a cat interacts with the environment (and therefore have to let the 'environment' teach him ) due to them not being a pack animal, you can certainly negotiate how they interact with you. Now, you can mitigate this by making sure he has plenty of play time and room and all the other stuff that he definitely needs as an alternative to doing this shit. But honestly, it's like a kid. You don't let your child pull out your hair, either. And I'm not above intimidation or even a small whack to drive that point home if they're not understanding it otherwise. You are bigger and stronger. And maybe it's time that he learnt that he's an idiot if he provokes a bigger animal than him. Another option, if you're up for it, is to just walk away. Get up violently and walk away, ignoring the crap out of him for like at least 10 minutes. Like, instantly. It's attention he wants, so take away the ONE thing he's trying to get or make it SO unpleasant that he'll think twice next time. If you're going to walk away, I'd do it already when he's not even near my hair, but just going for it. The whacking I'd time *just* as he does it, so he *really* knows that that is exactly what triggers it. And make sure it's unpleasant - not another game to play. Ignore him otherwise -no screaming, no eye contact, continue sleeping if you can. NO reward whatsoever.

    Personally, whacking them (gently) is easier and you get to keep snoozing so...your choice
    That said, with the whacking, I do make up later to re-establish that it is safe to be around me, and to drive home the point of 'this ONLY happens when you can't take no for an answer in this very specific situation.'

    I've also taken to growling softly or saying 'Hela! (dutch reprimand) (but you can also use your 'no' or even a bell if you like) as a warning sign that the whack will follow if they keep it up, so that we no longer need to resort to that - I just need to make the noise.

    What works for each cat is individual, depending on what motivates them, and it depends greatly on the accuracy of the owner to administer the deterrent at just the right time, so the sky is really the limit on what you use, as long as you follow the baselines of how to discourage the behaviour. You know it works when you see the behaviour diminishing at first and then dying out. I rarely need to make that noise nowadays - though I still get licked (coz I don't punish him at this point yet) and just slightly nuzzled/nibbled (and then he storms off coz he *knows* what will likely follow if he does that harder and sticks around)

    And for the record - you're learning these tricks of the trade quick, when i look over the preventative steps you're already taking. Kudos
    Wow, that was fast!

    Yeah, I leave him out toys & even lift the blinds a bit so he can watch birds and stuff in the morning. He'll play alone for awhile but eventually wants interactive play.

    I am REALLY averse to hitting pets or kids, but I know sometimes a parent may need to pop a toddler on the hand to keep them from touching something like a hot pan or pulling on an earring, etc. I'll consider a gentle tap for this situation. I can definitely get up and leave/disengage for a bit, as well.

    It just popped in my head that I have a can of compressed air someplace for my keyboard. May try to see if that may work in place of the water bottle before resorting to the whack, though your reasoning does make that option less of a burden on my conscience, so thanks for that. I don't want this persistent little bum to give me a bald patch because I can't manage him.

    Thanks, times a million, of course.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.
    Likes Amargith liked this post

  10. #80
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Wow, that was fast!

    Yeah, I leave him out toys & even lift the blinds a bit so he can watch birds and stuff in the morning. He'll play alone for awhile but eventually wants interactive play.

    I am REALLY averse to hitting pets or kids, but I know sometimes a parent may need to pop a toddler on the hand to keep them from touching something like a hot pan or pulling on an earring, etc. I'll consider a gentle tap for this situation. I can definitely get up and leave/disengage for a bit, as well.

    It just popped in my head that I have a can of compressed air someplace for my keyboard. May try to see if that may work in place of the water bottle before resorting to the whack, though your reasoning does make that option less of a burden on my conscience, so thanks for that. I don't want this persistent little bum to give me a bald patch because I can't manage him.

    Thanks, times a million, of course.
    Np, I know - Im not a fan of violence myself, but as my mom used to put it - juuust enough to startle them and make them think twice.' She used to specialise, when the kids were too young to understand things verbally, in administering 'whacks' that made a loooot of noise but were very low impact and no pain - just to drive her message home. A nose is really sensitive and it takes only a decisive index finger tap on the pink fleshy triangle part for me to drive home the message, though I'll admit that in the morning i just use a gently palm tap on the cat itself as my aim tends to be a bit...off then. Ive also been known to just shove them straight out of the bed onto the floor each time they did that. As long as he doesn't take it as a game, that could work as well. Pay attention to how he interprets it, that ll be vital.

    Basically, you can use anything that is convenient and pretty much just more unpleasant to him than it is to get you to respond. You could go for ignoring but when they're pulling out hair it becomes seriously impractical and almost impossible not to give them some sort of reaction, hence the deterrent strategy
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

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