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  1. #11
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    Poor Jack.

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    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    I'm posting in this thread again, just updating on my cat anxiety issue - the Feliway diffuser showed up in the mail yesterday [didn't notice til this evening]. I've plugged it into the livingroom outlet, where he tends to be, often.
    It was sort of expensive, so hopefully it works.

    Anyway, this counts as Day 1 with it- they're changed every 30 days, so I dunno how long I should give it to see a difference.. probably a week or so. Anyway, I'll keep this post updated on the results, in case anyone else has a similar issue at some point...
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  3. #13
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Hey Lex, sorry, I lost this thread and forgot I had to answer to it. Good luck with the diffuser. Normally, it should give a boost though it will not be a solution on its own. Keep up the play time every day if you can! (Im currently doing the same thing as we had a bit of a spraying accident in the house as well as the cat going sick from stress, as her immune system isnt that grand as it is).

    ...you didnt add the new kitten yet, did you? Coz that will cause a whole new bundle of stress, on its own.

    Other things to do...what kind of cat is he? I mean, is he motivated by treats, by play or by human affection? Coz if he is for instance a problem solving cat (those that figure out how to open doors to get to the goodies or regain their freedom etc), it is possible to make him a toy (cut holes in a carton box for him to put his paw through and put in little balls of paper and treats), and otherwise, you can increase the petting he gets from you, or even, if you feel like it, start clicker training with him for treats. Itll keep him mentally occupied and train your cat to sit and roll over

    It all depends on how far you wanna go and how bad his anxiety symptoms are. What are his symptoms at this stage anyways? Restlessness only?

    For that matter how does he respond to your absence, coz we dont want him to get seperation anxiety from you as well, to the point where you are imprisoned in your house.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #14
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    *meditates*/*pulls out ouija board*/*lights incense* --- *has asthma attack*/*extinguishes incense*
    Blegh.



    *summons up the Holy Mother Cat Lady Spirit* ( @Amargith )

    So, as you know, my mother adopted a kitten from an animal shelter in August.. Chloë had been found under the porch of a house no one lived in, eating garbage, with her mother/siblings. They were all riddled with fleas, covered head to toe with bites, severely malnourished. The mother died, nursing the 5 babies to keep them alive. She and a brother were the only two survivors out of the situation. They almost didn't make it, either.


    That said, she's a very healthy, happy/inquisitive kitten, now. Though, I notice this one habit, that tugs at me, a bit. Not necessarily because of the behavior itself, but the stress that's likely triggering the behavior.

    Whenever she's about to be fed, she PANICS. Meows are almost like a scream, she literally climbs your legs/hip to reach the countertop. She dashes to where the bowl is placed, frantic, eats like she's never going to see food again. Has to be fed separately from the other two cats, because she finishes so quickly, & will eat BOTH of their portions, as well. Normally loving/extremely affectionate to everyone- including the other cats- she actually hisses so hard at them she spits. They just sort of step back, startled.

    We had to put childproof locks on the cabinets, she learned how to open those/tore apart some boxes/loaf of bread, etc.


    Obviously she also tries to eat our food, as well, climbing, getting on the table, trying to put her paws in the plate.. on a few occasions she's been so quick, she's succeeded in getting a pawful of something.

    Using a spray bottle of water has helped with the climbing when we're eating or trying to prepare her food, but her heightened anxiety is still there. Paces. Cries.



    Ever have any cats who behaved this way? It's like Kitten PTSD. So terribly panicky, it hurts my heart a little, to watch/think about.

    If you have any tips, I pray you, O Divine & All-knowing Cat-Lady, please pass them along whenever you have the chance.
    (I'm going back out to CA at the end of the month, with Jack, but I can always pass the info to my mother if you get to this after I've departed)


    Thank you/Amen.


    PS- the Feliway worked wonders for Jack's stress on his catless summer weekends. I have one waiting at our apt in CA- my roommate's gonna plug it in a week before we arrive. Also I'm shipping a couple used blankets around that time, too. Getting the spray for his crate, as we're flying back there [6hr flight on avg, not counting travel time by car to/from airports.. he'll likely be spending at least 12 hrs trapped in a tiny crate ].

    You've traveled with your cats more often than I - Jack's gonna be my carry-on baggage [fuck putting him in checked cargo].
    Do you sedate your cats for flights? I'm reluctant to drug him, in general.
    My concern is not only his stress, but that he may have an accident out of fear, & then be forced to stay in it for the duration of the trip. He's never done that before, on short car rides, but I can't discount any possibility...
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  5. #15
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    *meditates*/*pulls out ouija board*/*lights incense* --- *has asthma attack*/*extinguishes incense*
    Blegh.



    *summons up the Holy Mother Cat Lady Spirit* ( @Amargith )

    So, as you know, my mother adopted a kitten from an animal shelter in August.. Chloë had been found under the porch of a house no one lived in, eating garbage, with her mother/siblings. They were all riddled with fleas, covered head to toe with bites, severely malnourished. The mother died, nursing the 5 babies to keep them alive. She and a brother were the only two survivors out of the situation. They almost didn't make it, either.


    That said, she's a very healthy, happy/inquisitive kitten, now. Though, I notice this one habit, that tugs at me, a bit. Not necessarily because of the behavior itself, but the stress that's likely triggering the behavior.

    Whenever she's about to be fed, she PANICS. Meows are almost like a scream, she literally climbs your legs/hip to reach the countertop. She dashes to where the bowl is placed, frantic, eats like she's never going to see food again. Has to be fed separately from the other two cats, because she finishes so quickly, & will eat BOTH of their portions, as well. Normally loving/extremely affectionate to everyone- including the other cats- she actually hisses so hard at them she spits. They just sort of step back, startled.

    We had to put childproof locks on the cabinets, she learned how to open those/tore apart some boxes/loaf of bread, etc.


    Obviously she also tries to eat our food, as well, climbing, getting on the table, trying to put her paws in the plate.. on a few occasions she's been so quick, she's succeeded in getting a pawful of something.

    Using a spray bottle of water has helped with the climbing when we're eating or trying to prepare her food, but her heightened anxiety is still there. Paces. Cries.



    Ever have any cats who behaved this way? It's like Kitten PTSD. So terribly panicky, it hurts my heart a little, to watch/think about.

    If you have any tips, I pray you, O Divine & All-knowing Cat-Lady, please pass them along whenever you have the chance.
    (I'm going back out to CA at the end of the month, with Jack, but I can always pass the info to my mother if you get to this after I've departed)


    Thank you/Amen.


    PS- the Feliway worked wonders for Jack's stress on his catless summer weekends. I have one waiting at our apt in CA- my roommate's gonna plug it in a week before we arrive. Also I'm shipping a couple used blankets around that time, too. Getting the spray for his crate, as we're flying back there [6hr flight on avg, not counting travel time by car to/from airports.. he'll likely be spending at least 12 hrs trapped in a tiny crate ].

    You've traveled with your cats more often than I - Jack's gonna be my carry-on baggage [fuck putting him in checked cargo].
    Do you sedate your cats for flights? I'm reluctant to drug him, in general.
    My concern is not only his stress, but that he may have an accident out of fear, & then be forced to stay in it for the duration of the trip. He's never done that before, on short car rides, but I can't discount any possibility...
    At your service!



    So, the proof is in the pudding, or in this case, her history. Chloe grew up fighting her way to survival. It aint no coincidink that miss Chloe was one of the two last ones standing; she fought for her life, no doubt. And, in the process, unfortunately had to kill off her family. Aka, she knows what it is like to go hungry and she knows what it is like to have to battle 4 other kittens in order to make sure she did not starve to death. And that is the kind of emo baggage that will cause that kind of exaggerated behavior you are seeing now. Totally absurd nowadays, but unfortunately not so much when she was young. She was raised to believe that you'd better grab what you can while you can, coz there is no guarantee there will be food the next time you are hungry. And sadly, it is quite common in stray cats.

    I cannot say mine have ever had this behavior to such an extreme. Though Prin does display this behavior when she tries and steals Arwens food (she gets special food coz of allergies which all the other cats covet and is too expensive to feed the entire colony). Faith grew up with her mom and though she gorges like that, she is so frantic around people that she eats fast in order to be able to get away from them. Her and her mom were however regularly fed by humans, so they had a steady supply of food, always.

    There is two ways of handling this, imho, though I will admit this is more of an educated guess based on my experiences than a solution Ive tried out before.

    1) The lazy way out: feed her the way you always have, but afterwards, when everyone has eaten and she has calmed down, put down a bowl of food which is NEVER empty. Now, this can have two very serious drawbacks: a) she eats her self sick and you will have some serious vomit to clean up. Expect this to happen (it happens to Prin as well when she gets into Arwens foodbowl). Prin however does stop eating and retains her weight easily. Thats the second possible drawback. She turns into my Lulu and eats non-stop. Now, on its own, that is also a normal reaction as long as it stabilizes over time and doesn't become another obsession for her.

    If you choose this road, I'd get the kitchen paper ready and keep a close eye on her for like a week or two. The point of the exercise is to convince her of the fact that she will never *ever* have to go hungry again, which is her greatest fear. That she can count on the fact that food will NEVER be an issue ever again in her life. And hopefully, she'll ease up on her own. Behavior usually resets after 2 to 3 weeks. Still, this was a very traumatic experience for her and she will keep this behavior in her back-pocket, and use it again when she feels the situation warrants it. So it is important not to trigger that need for at least several months, preferably longer by providing ample food, always.

    However, if she would develop a new obsession by eating non-stop and becoming obese, that would also be counterproductive. I would put the foodbowl somewhere inconvenient for them, somewhere they do not come often and have to think about going there in order to eat. I place Arwen's food on a height so i can monitor it and see who jumps up. It also makes them think twice about it as it costs effort to jump up there and its not just there for the taking on their wanderings. A friend of mine had a cat who was gaining weight that way and I told her to put the foodbowl under his desk upstairs while he was working as the cat spent most of his time downstairs in the livingroom, causing him to have to climb stairs and actually *think* of food before getting it, instead of just walking about and getting triggered by the foodbowl.

    In short, see if you can start with the eternal food bowl being in a less than convenient place, but always there just in case, in order to discourage such a habit from forming. Make it cost energy to get to the food.

    2) The more intensive method.

    This one is harder to pull off coz it costs a *lot* more energy on the owners part. This is where you take the time to feed the cat calmly one kibble at a time and *teach* her that her behavior gets her the exact opposite. Start with giving her a piece calmly and steadily no matter how agitated she gets and slowly grow towards rewarding her when she calms down with a bit of kibble. In effect, you are teaching her that she is in full control of you and your dispensing of the food. Being calm and patiently waiting for food will get you your food faster. Acting like a crazy cat will get you waiting longer. This has as an added benefit that she won't overeat till she is sick or gain weight. However. The serious drawback is the commitment of it. Since her behavior is so entrenched due to trauma and so fear-driven, it will be heart wrenching to see her panicking and still deny her. It will also take intense training sessions for her to come to terms with the fear, *before* she can learn the new way of getting her food. Fear is not conducive to learning, so it takes her calming down before she can figure out the new system.

    ESSENTIAL is that you do not waver, if you choose to go this route. Studies have shown that interval training, aka giving in now and then only strengthens the resolve and behavior displayed, which is why it is used to keep animals focused on their training later on in the session (to keep them interested and in suspense, instead of distracted from the same boring routine). First you teach her that not running around crazy gets her food, as it is in your hand and running around isnt going to get her near your hand. Once she's sitting still, and youve reaffirmed the behavior by feeding her in a steady, reliable pace, kibble by kibble, she will still be neurotic and try to speed you up (you might wanna wear gloves for this), by meowing incessantly, licking your hand and even biting. It is essential that none of those triggers work. Give it to her the second she relents, even for just a second. And repeat. Give her time to figure out the system. Let her panick and try everything till she discovers the one thing that works. Then consistently reward her for being calm. Do that until she is calm and relaxed and waits patiently for you to hand it out. Then start with training her with a bowl. Toss in one piece at a time, and reward her eating things slowly and in a relaxed fashion. Once she does, let her have a few kibbles at once, and again, expect her to gorge again, and reward and slow down depending on how well she does. And so on, until she can have a full bowl of kibble and eat calmly.

    See what I mean with a loooot of work?

    Lastly, make sure that at *any* time, your food and leftovers are secured. This means trashbags, things on the countertop, etc etc. Prin used to organize raids through the apartment once she accidentally discovered cheese that had gone bad in an open bag. Nevermind that she puked her guts out, she roped Lulu into opening closets, Falkie into opening milkbottles with his fangs and used her lightweight self to reach the highest shelves to scour for food and her non-retractable claw politics to open every bag in sight. And I have an open bowl standing around, so it was sheerly for the things that were not fed to cats and she felt she was entitled to

    My brother also has a cat who was raised in a multicat home (with like 20 other cats...so not good for cats), and she too opens all garbage bags and meows incessantly when food is being doled out. They too have to feed them seperately due to that. It is part of their past, unfortunately, so try to make sure that they have a chance to move past that behavior by not triggering it. Our dog was from a similar background and we had to watch him or he would go delving for food in trashbags (and his stomach was ruined do to trash delving, which caused him to have to eat turkey and rice for his entire life, which ironically meant that this trash delving automatically ended in him puking his guts out and having horrible diarrhea).

    Ok, I've so rambled enough, Im just going to address your Jack-question and Im done, I swear

    I only traveled the one time that I moved to Norway with all my kitties. It was a 2 hour flight only, but we took 2 or 3 hours getting to the airport and an hour at the airport for luggage and cats retrieval and an hour from the airport to where we were to go...so thats about 7 hours in a cage?

    I dunno how it works in the US, but here they had really strict regulations on the measurements of the carriers that went on the plane as they have to fit under the seat in front of you. Also, I had to pay 30 euro a cat to carry them on. I took on Arwen and Faith. The only one I gave some sedation was Faith and it was a mild food supplement which was a valium derivative, if memory serves, something she'd been on for a couple of months as I trained her to be at least somewhat tolerant of humans. She still hyperventilated most of the way, but she made it (i seriously thought she was going to have a heart attack). I doubt Jack will stress ass much as Faith did, given her background and given his fondness of you. Your presence, smell and voice should do a lot for him already. Get yourself some 'cat diapers' at the vets, they use it all the time to line their cages with. Sick, stressed animals aren't exactly known for their ability to control their bladder, see. Get a couple, take them with you, and take with you a plastic bag and some gloves so that *if* he has an accident, he doesn't have to sit in his own s***. Try to get the big diapers, that way you can wrap them around that blanket and minimize that thing getting sogging wet. Also, see if you can take with a little bowl he can drink from (just make sure that its a flat bowl, not a deep one). He may not want to, but give him the option. 12 hours is long to go without water. One trick is to use icecubes (the people at the airport told me that actually). You put them in a tray, in the box with them, and they slowly melt, meaning that most of the trip, the water doesn't spill everywhere, and the cat can stil drink (they drink minimal amounts anyways). Chances are though, that the stress will keep him from having a drink, but you never know. Buy a bottle at the airport, and if it is really warm, at least wet his nose and paws, so he can cool off some and lick the water from his face. Have some food with you as well, but do not panic if he doesnt eat..its likely due to stress.

    Other than that..chill. It will be a stressful day both for you and your kitty, but if there is one thing cats are amazing it, it is coping with uncomfortable situations. He'll likely crawl into a ball, meow loudly for a while (this happens especailly when the cage is moved, and usually stops after a while once the cage feels stable to them), and then he'll sit there and bear it like a good cat. And know that there is an end to this torture, where you can spoil him rotten again

    Crap, I hope I didn't drown you in text

    G'luck!!
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  6. #16
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    @Amargith

    This is great stuff, seriously. Thank you so much.

    I copy/pasted some of this to email, to my mother, since it's her cat. While my mom's relationships with humans tends to be tumultuous/complicated, she's generally a good, nurturing ISFJ pet parent. I could see her implementing these, consistently. Probably will start once Jack & I have left, in a few weeks. [if she takes Route #1 he'd just eat all the 'eternal food' left out because he's an incurable fatcat...

    The icecubes are a brilliant idea for the plane ride!

    Seriously, thanks for putting so much time/thought into this response, it all sounds viable to me. She'll be a much happier cat at mealtime, someday, thanks to you.


    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  7. #17
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    always happy to help! I hope it works out for you. Dont forget to set up a small room with the essentials and some familiar stuff for Jack (perhaps in your bedroom) once you move. That way he can gain his bearings in the new territory without being overwhelmed,then after he gets comfy you can slowly introduce him to the other rooms ubtil he has scouted it all

    And congrats on getting your own place
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  8. #18
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    @Lexicon i just got a tip for gorging cats; put a rubber ball cat toy or two in the foodbowl so the have to navigate around it



    Oh and happy new year!
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #19
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    @Lexicon i just got a tip for gorging cats; put a rubber ball cat toy or two in the foodbowl so the have to navigate around it



    Oh and happy new year!
    I'll try it, but I wonder if she'd just try to eat the ball.. she's such a little beast, haha.
    (she actually ripped into the kitchen trash yesterday, after I'd taken it out of the barrel to bring outside. I left for a moment to grab the little bathroom wastebasket bag to add to it.. returned to the bottom of the bag completely torn open, contents everywhere. She ran when she saw me.. she totally knew she did something wrong.. little shit.)

    She's been a lot better lately, overall, though. Thank you again for the advice in this thread. A few combinations of those tips were effective.

    Happy New Year to you as well!
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasoline View Post
    hi

    i think my dog is afraid of me. when she gets happy, she pees herself as well. i have been consistent in looking away from her when she enters the room and started using calm tone when talking with her, i even pet her and praise her but not sure how to get her to stop being afraid of me. any suggestions?

    she has no history of abuse either
    she just easily panics and goes into high anxiety mode and she would do this all the time. i started spoiling my mutt by letting her sleep with me. we basically got really close that she no longer does the peeing. she no longer obeys and listens out of fear but reward and cuddles. she likes jumping in my arms now.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
    -Bruce Lee

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