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  1. #21
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    It's hard to lose weight. Maybe you should stay at the weight you are?
    Yeah, I was kinda kidding. I could stand to be a bit fatter than I am, but I've basically been skinny my whole life (even when I lived at home and was getting better square meals than I am now) - I should just enjoy it

    I was just looking at Buproprion as highlander mentioned it. Damn, even a "low side effects" drug sounds potentially scary. Maybe I really should try harder on the exercise front.

    Or maybe I should go to the doctor and say "I don't want or think I need meds, but can you get me into therapy?" Seriously! It might work.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Yeah, I was kinda kidding. I could stand to be a bit fatter than I am, but I've basically been skinny my whole life (even when I lived at home and was getting better square meals than I am now) - I should just enjoy it

    I was just looking at Buproprion as highlander mentioned it. Damn, even a "low side effects" drug sounds potentially scary. Maybe I really should try harder on the exercise front.

    Or maybe I should go to the doctor and say "I don't want or think I need meds, but can you get me into therapy?" Seriously! It might work.
    That's what I would try. You could try saint john's wart too.

  3. #23
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    OK, first off remember that I'm no professional when it comes to medical illness so I'll have to majorly qualify my advice accordingly.

    That said, I would ask what are your expectations of the Dr. why speak to them as opposed to anyone else?

    Depression can be endogenuous, organic and a medical disorder but I suspect that you would have much less control and experience much more distress, very possibly you'd not consider yourself ill either, on the other hand it could be exogenous (I dont know if I'm spelling these terms correctly but I'm familiar with the concepts) or situational depression, which would be something which you could experience intermittantly, its much more commonplace and it would be suspiscious if in certain situations people dont experience it to be frank.

    Endogenous depression would be caused by lesions on the brain or brain abnormalities or other disordered or abnormal hormonal or body chemistry, it can be symptomatic of something else, there was a lot of misdiagnosed depressive or bio-polar disease before diabetes was as well understood as what it is today but generally its not a consequence of environmental or situational triggers, either life space events or sensitivites to toxins or food stuffs.

    Situational depression is caused by life space events, although some people are more susceptible than others, vulnerability can be a result of trauma, at any time, the over taxing of existing copeing strategies, the adoption of the wrong sorts of copeing strategies, such as avoiding or dodging problems which wont go away instead of properly identifying realistic solutions, or vulnerability which is organic/physical/medical such as injuries besides trauma, like abusing substances over a prolonged period of time.

    Doctors are likely only going to tell you something like this and suggest pharmaceuticals which will counter any bio-chemical imbalances, they could prescribe rest or a period of sick leave from work or make a referral to some sort of therapist but that's it in all likelihood. Despite its history at a time medicine, even psychiatry, perhaps even particularly psychiatry, is very circumscribed when it comes to mental ill health, often if its inorganic and behavioural or emotional they dont want to know, its someone elses terrain.

    Martin Seligman, who wrote about learned helplessness and learned optimism also wrote a book called What you can change, and what you cant, which is among one of the most objective assessments of mental health, medicine and therapy, to say that it is skeptical about the remedies which medicine and therapy can provide when what is being hoped for is in some way transformative would be putting it mildly. On the other hand he does suggest that with insight and foreknowledge, carefully considering triggers, patterns, consequences, some sort of realistic copeing could be worked out for the inevitable or at least expected tribulations.

    On a different note, I've experienced this kind of thing, although I've experienced violence or challenges which could make it explicable sometimes (on one occasion a Dr. told me when I was experiencing chest pain I'd attributed to a flu or something that I'd experienced a number of assaults and perhaps just needed a vacation, he was willing to sign sick lines if that was what it took).

    Anyway, I was convinced I was having a sort of good year, bad year cycle, at that time I read Bertrand Russell's Conquest of Happiness and it really helped, its not a self-help book, its not really therapy either, its not even really what I'd consider philosophy (unless in a sort of really practical, personal sense) but its a good book on the topic of happiness and misery, the most important thing I took away from it is actually in the title, happiness isnt a given, it can require struggle at times and effort. Medicine or therapy could help clear some obsticles or perhaps highlight what the obsticles are but it doesnt change that. At least not much.
    Thanks Lark, I really appreciate you writing all that out!

    I think part of what makes it so hard about knowing what to do in this regard is that I find it hard to...quantify how bad I am feeling vs how bad it is "ok" to feel. I know very well that I'm a sensitive person and that I take things hard emotionally and certainly when I've had what seem to be depressive episodes in the past, there have been triggers. I suspect (and even from what my parents have casually said to me, though they haven't gone into detail) that there is a slight tendency to low-level depression in my family and that certain types of life events are likely to trigger it. I guess in my case it is most likely to be "situational."

    Part of me wants to go to the doctor because I would like a magic bullet. I might as well be honest about that. I am kind of lazy I guess and it would be easier if things were...easier. Life seems to be a struggle and as I am sensitive I also pick up more than what is personally going on in MY life. In recent years I've had all of the following as well as some personal disappointments and even tragedies (though the tragedies were more before the age of 23): trying to support people with severe emotional issues; unstable work situations; concerns about the physical and emotional health of people dear to me; stress from my environment as I do live in a very stressful environment; etc. I also pick up a lot when I read the news too much and that sort of thing. On the other hand, I am supported by a fantastic family and some wonderful friends, and a faith which underpins everything I do and believe, but I find sadly that sometimes the negatives can outweigh the positives - when I let them, anyway.

    And in terms of depression, it just feels sometimes like I take things SO much harder than I should. Which can also be inexperience or naivety or over-investment or whatever, but seriously, I shouldn't have been depressed for over a year because a relationship which lasted less than six months failed...that sort of thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    And in terms of depression, it just feels sometimes like I take things SO much harder than I should. Which can also be inexperience or naivety or over-investment or whatever, but seriously, I shouldn't have been depressed for over the year because a relationship which lasted less than six months failed...that sort of thing.
    You got quite a bit there, in terms of discernible triggers to stress and anxiety, when those things happen they are taxing emotionally and then physically and you can get caught in terrible loops. How you deal with each of those triggers isnt something I'd proffer to much advice about because its difficult to judge from here.

    I've quoted this bit because my natural inclination when I hear people say they shouldnt feel a particular way after a particular amount of time has elapsed is to question why they've reached that conclusion. It sounds like you've had a lot of different things going on. So perhaps you've not had time to process the ending of this relationship you've mentioned and its only to be expected that if that's the case then you'll still feel bad about it.

    Also the ending of relationships are pretty subjective things, some people bounce back immediately, some people are pretty resilient, while others rebound to other relationships quick as one ends, everyone has their own individual response to things like that and I'd not put a time scale on it, especially if doing so is only going to make you feel worse about it.

  5. #25
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You got quite a bit there, in terms of discernible triggers to stress and anxiety, when those things happen they are taxing emotionally and then physically and you can get caught in terrible loops. How you deal with each of those triggers isnt something I'd proffer to much advice about because its difficult to judge from here.

    I've quoted this bit because my natural inclination when I hear people say they shouldnt feel a particular way after a particular amount of time has elapsed is to question why they've reached that conclusion. It sounds like you've had a lot of different things going on. So perhaps you've not had time to process the ending of this relationship you've mentioned and its only to be expected that if that's the case then you'll still feel bad about it.

    Also the ending of relationships are pretty subjective things, some people bounce back immediately, some people are pretty resilient, while others rebound to other relationships quick as one ends, everyone has their own individual response to things like that and I'd not put a time scale on it, especially if doing so is only going to make you feel worse about it.
    Well...that particular relationship I mentioned which triggered a major "episode", that was some years ago now, and I'm over it now as I have had lots of time to get over it.

    But I have wondered if, when similar or somewhat things have happened subsequently, part of my reaction hasn't been a sort of...memory of the previous ones. Like I'm suffering whatever it is in the present time but I'm also kind of reliving whatever happened to me before. I suspect that this does happen because I don't entirely let go of things from the past and it becomes more of a cumulative effect. I certainly know that whoever I'm mad at or upset about tends to become the representative of all similar things that have gone before. *sigghhhh*

    It takes so long sometimes too to get perspective on things in your life and how they may have affected you. A lot of people died when I was in my teens to early twenties, a few in very bad ways, and there was other stuff going on at the time too. I carry around a bit of a permanent "who's next" anxiety. At the time though I thought it was the kind of stuff that all families go through, or that it all hadn't been going on as long as it did - years. I wonder now how it affected me long-term. And I only started really wondering about all that maybe a couple of years ago - ie. about ten years after the fact. It's strange.
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  6. #26
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    That's what I would try. You could try saint john's wart too.
    Speaking of side effects.

    http://depression.emedtv.com/st.-joh...e-effects.html

    And it is not supposed to be very effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Well...that particular relationship I mentioned which triggered a major "episode", that was some years ago now, and I'm over it now as I have had lots of time to get over it.

    But I have wondered if, when similar or somewhat things have happened subsequently, part of my reaction hasn't been a sort of...memory of the previous ones. Like I'm suffering whatever it is in the present time but I'm also kind of reliving whatever happened to me before. I suspect that this does happen because I don't entirely let go of things from the past and it becomes more of a cumulative effect. I certainly know that whoever I'm mad at or upset about tends to become the representative of all similar things that have gone before. *sigghhhh*
    This absolutely can happen - even after many years.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    It takes so long sometimes too to get perspective on things in your life and how they may have affected you. A lot of people died when I was in my teens to early twenties, a few in very bad ways, and there was other stuff going on at the time too. I carry around a bit of a permanent "who's next" anxiety. At the time though I thought it was the kind of stuff that all families go through, or that it all hadn't been going on as long as it did - years. I wonder now how it affected me long-term. And I only started really wondering about all that maybe a couple of years ago - ie. about ten years after the fact. It's strange.
    I don't think it's strange at all. Perfectly natural response.

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