How soon is too soon to be eating "heart healthy"?

[funkadelik]

I'm not a nutritionist either. I just think that someone with no heart disease or risk for heart attack can be a little looser with the diet and even define "healthy" a little different. For me, there's no history of heart disease amongst the women of my family, I have low blood pressure, low resting heart rate, good cholesterol, and a beautiful looking EKG. My activity level is the centerpiece of my health, and diet follows, (even surrounds the activity.)

Someone with any kind of heart disease or increased risk of heart attack has a slightly different story. Some people have higher cholesterol or high blood pressure, or anything like that is different, because their bodies may react differently to nutrients. (And even exercise.) So, best thing to do is have a doctor that knows your specific medical history and the physiology of your specific disease is suited to be able to tell you how your diet can affect your system. Does that make sense?

Totally, thank you.

 

[Randomnity]

Some studies have reached this conclusion, and a roughly equal number of others have reached the opposite conclusion. Alcohol is generally a huge risk factor for heart disease (as well as innumerable other health issues), and this shouldn't be stated as fact.

Are you sure about this? I have heard that it's very well-supported by evidence, although I haven't researched it myself. Here are two recent reviews of the literature (i.e. summarizing all the relevant studies in the field), one from January, one from last year: (I didn't pick and choose reviews, these two seemed the most on-topic, but there are several more along the same lines published in the last few years if you search)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21261637

Summary: Coronary heart disease (CHD) is a major and preventable cause of morbidity and death in the United States. Recently, significant research efforts have been directed at an epidemiological phenomenon known as the "French paradox." This observation refers to the coexistence of high risk factors with unanticipated low incidence of CHD, and is postulated to be associated with low-to-moderate consumption of red wine. In vivo studies have shown that red wine intake is more CHD-preventative in comparison to other alcoholic drinks; enhanced cardioprotection may be attributed to grape-derived polyphenols, e.g., resveratrol, in red wine. This review summarizes results of in vitro and animal studies showing that resveratrol exerts multifaceted cardioprotective activities, as well as evidence demonstrating the presence of proteins specifically targeted by resveratrol, as exemplified by N-ribosyldihydronicotinamide:quinone oxidoreductase, NQO2. A mechanism encompassing nongenomic and genomic effects and a research roadmap is proposed as a framework for uncovering further insights on cardioprotection by resveratrol.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20391297

Summary: The term FRENCH PARADOX was coined in 1992 to describe the relatively low incidence of cardiovascular disease in the French population, despite a relatively high dietary intake of saturated fats, and potentially attributable to the consumption of red wine. After nearly 20 years, several studies have investigated the fascinating, overwhelmingly positive biological and clinical associations of red wine consumption with cardiovascular disease and mortality. Light to moderate intake of red wine produces a kaleidoscope of potentially beneficial effects that target all phases of the atherosclerotic process, from atherogenesis (early plaque development and growth) to vessel occlusion (flow-mediated dilatation, thrombosis). Such beneficial effects involve cellular signaling mechanisms, interactions at the genomic level, and biochemical modifications of cellular and plasma components. Red wine components, especially alcohol, resveratrol, and other polyphenolic compounds, may decrease oxidative stress, enhance cholesterol efflux from vessel walls (mainly by increasing levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol), and inhibit lipoproteins oxidation, macrophage cholesterol accumulation, and foam-cell formation. These components may also increase nitric oxide bioavailability, thereby antagonizing the development of endothelial dysfunction, decrease blood viscosity, improve insulin sensitivity, counteract platelet hyperactivity, inhibit platelet adhesion to fibrinogen-coated surfaces, and decrease plasma levels of von Willebrand factor, fibrinogen, and coagulation factor VII. Light to moderate red wine consumption is also associated with a favorable genetic modulation of fibrinolytic proteins, ultimately increasing the surface-localized endothelial cell fibrinolysis. Overall, therefore, the "French paradox" may have its basis within a milieu containing several key molecules, so that favorable cardiovascular benefits might be primarily attributable to combined, additive, or perhaps synergistic effects of alcohol and other wine components on atherogenesis, coagulation, and fibrinolysis. Conversely, chronic heavy alcohol consumption and binge drinking are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular events. In conclusion, although mounting evidence strongly supports beneficial cardiovascular effects of moderate red wine consumption (one to two drinks per day; 10-30 g alcohol) in most populations, clinical advice to abstainers to initiate daily alcohol consumption has not yet been substantiated in the literature and must be considered with caution on an individual basis.

Do you have any information that suggests that an equal number of studies found no effect or a negative effect from moderate consumption? (Nobody is suggesting higher consumption of >1-2 glasses/day is good though, it's very harmful at that level)

 

[rav3n]

The sooner you adapt to healthy eating, the less you're going to crave or need junk or fast food. One thing I have noticed, is the more processed sugar consumed, the more my body craves it. So I avoid candy, putting sugar in coffee or tea, baked goods, soda pop, etc. For a treat once in awhile, honey is the substitute.

 

[MacGuffin]

The sooner you adapt to healthy eating, the less you're going to crave or need junk or fast food. One thing I have noticed, is the more processed sugar consumed, the more my body craves it. So I avoid candy, putting sugar in coffee or tea, baked goods, soda pop, etc. For a treat once in awhile, honey is the substitute.

I don't have a sweet tooth, so I don't have to really avoid sugar myself. I had ice cream sitting in my freezer and didn't bother to eat any, even when my wife started eating it in front of me the other day.

Fried fatty foods on the other hand...



I also don't like veggies. I was raised to eat them (at one point in my childhood, my "dessert" for lunch in grade school was carrot sticks), but I don't like them. I have to force myself to eat them and I don't care for them in almost any configuration you can think of. I hope my daughter will like them more than I do, because I'd almost rather skip a meal than just eat vegetables.

Oh well.

 

[Oberon]

Key for me is the food's glycemic index. Anything that spikes my blood sugar is off the menu.

It can be high-calorie-density food and I'll eat it in moderation... but anything with significant sugar or starch is just out.

 

[rav3n]

I also don't like veggies. I was raised to eat them (at one point in my childhood, my "dessert" for lunch in grade school was carrot sticks), but I don't like them. I have to force myself to eat them and I don't care for them in almost any configuration you can think of. I hope my daughter will like them more than I do, because I'd almost rather skip a meal than just eat vegetables.

Have you tried home made stirfry (not the over-oiled, sometimes overcooked or undercooked restaurant veggies) with fresh asian greens? You might like them. I personally aren't fond of mooshy boiled veggies or even steamed ones. Boring.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Well, my dad died of a heart attack when I was 19, so I started to eat well after that. I have a friend who went on a radical and austere diet after his dad died (no sugar, animal protein or oils of any kind), and he is now one of the best preserved people I know. He's 59 and looks 40. My brother-in-law looks about 10 years younger than he is, probably because he doesn't drink alcohol or coffee, and eats very carefully. It's somewhat upsetting to my sister that he looks 10 years younger than she does...

 

[MacGuffin]

Have you tried home made stirfry (not the over-oiled, sometimes overcooked or undercooked restaurant veggies) with fresh asian greens? You might like them. I personally aren't fond of mooshy boiled veggies or even steamed ones. Boring.

Those are okay, but you know what makes it taste 10x better? Adding some meat!

 

[rav3n]

Those are okay, but you know what makes it taste 10x better? Adding some meat!

Not sure if you enjoy seafood, but here's a recipe for meat and veggies.

Marinate large shrimp in minced ginger, garlic, onion, light soy and cornstarch for around 1/2 hour and then pan fry (only turning once) until slightly opaque with high heat and canola oil. Remove from pan. Then using the same pan retaining pan juices, stir fry baby shanghai bak choy with some light soy (no lid) until done. Add back shrimp, mix then serve on jasmine rice. Yummy as a meal!

 

[MacGuffin]

Not sure if you enjoy seafood, but here's a recipe for meat and veggies.

Marinate large shrimp in minced ginger, garlic, onion, light soy and cornstarch for around 1/2 hour and then pan fry (only turning once) until slightly opaque with high heat and canola oil. Remove from pan. Then using the same pan retaining pan juices, stir fry baby shanghai bak choy with some light soy (no lid) until done. Add back shrimp, mix then serve on jasmine rice. Yummy as a meal!

That sounds damn good (plus my wife can eat it, she only eats seafood, dairy, and eggs when it comes to animal protein).

 

[rav3n]

That sounds damn good (plus my wife can eat it, she only eats seafood, dairy, and eggs when it comes to animal protein).

Cool!

Oh forgot, optional, add in a shot of dry sherry or rice wine into the shrimp marinade. I do this unless I'm cooking for my purist Asian parents who hate alcohol with their seafood.

 

[MacGuffin]

Cool!

Oh forgot, optional, add in a shot of dry sherry or rice wine into the shrimp marinade. I do this unless I'm cooking for my purist Asian parents who hate alcohol with their seafood.

What about fish sauce?

 

[rav3n]

What about fish sauce?

In what way? Add it to the recipe? Not sure it's necessary since you're already getting a lot of flavour from the shrimp and marinade which ends up to be mixed with the veggies.

I'd use fish sauce in Pad Thai, instead.

 

[funkadelik]

Well, my dad died of a heart attack when I was 19, so I started to eat well after that. I have a friend who went on a radical and austere diet after his dad died (no sugar, animal protein or oils of any kind), and he is now one of the best preserved people I know. He's 59 and looks 40. My brother-in-law looks about 10 years younger than he is, probably because he doesn't drink alcohol or coffee, and eats very carefully. It's somewhat upsetting to my sister that he looks 10 years younger than she does...

Whoa, how long has he been eating that way? Does he eat fish or anything? Take vitamin supplements? What about gluten?

 

[burymecloser]

Are you sure about this? I have heard that it's very well-supported by evidence, although I haven't researched it myself.

You're right: there are a number of studies which suggest it is so.

Do you have any information that suggests that an equal number of studies found no effect or a negative effect from moderate consumption? (Nobody is suggesting higher consumption of >1-2 glasses/day is good though, it's very harmful at that level)

From the American Heart Association:

Over the past several decades, many studies have been published in science journals about how drinking alcohol may be associated with reduced mortality due to heart disease in some populations. Some researchers have suggested that the benefit may be due to wine, especially red wine. Others are examining the potential benefits of components in red wine such as flavonoids (FLAV'oh-noidz) and other antioxidants (an"tih-OK'sih-dants) in reducing heart disease risk. Some of these components may be found in other foods such as grapes or red grape juice. The linkage reported in many of these studies may be due to other lifestyle factors rather than alcohol. Such factors may include increased physical activity, and a diet high in fruits and vegetables and lower in saturated fats No direct comparison trials have been done to determine the specific effect of wine or other alcohol on the risk of developing heart disease or stroke.

Research is being done to find out what the apparent benefits of drinking wine or alcohol in some populations may be due to, including the role of antioxidants, an increase in HDL ("good") cholesterol or anti-clotting properties. Clinical trials of other antioxidants such as vitamin E have not shown any cardio-protective effect. Also, even if they were protective, antioxidants can be obtained from many fruits and vegetables, including red grape juice.

The best-known effect of alcohol is a small increase in HDL cholesterol. However, regular physical activity is another effective way to raise HDL cholesterol, and niacin can be prescribed to raise it to a greater degree. Alcohol or some substances such as resveratrol (res-VAIR'ah-trol) found in alcoholic beverages may prevent platelets in the blood from sticking together. That may reduce clot formation and reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke. (Aspirin may help reduce blood clotting in a similar way.) How alcohol or wine affects cardiovascular risk merits further research, but right now the American Heart Association does not recommend drinking wine or any other form of alcohol to gain these potential benefits. The AHA does recommend that to reduce your risk you should talk to your doctor about lowering your cholesterol and blood pressure, controlling your weight, getting enough physical activity and following a healthy diet. There is no scientific proof that drinking wine or any other alcoholic beverage can replace these conventional measures.

This is old news, 2001, from the AHA's journal Circulation, via an article on ScienceDaily titled Heart Protective Benefits Of Red Wine Remain Uncertain; Physicians Urged To Rely On Proven Ways To Lower Risk:

Top medical authorities are cautioning the nation’s health care professionals to downplay the popular but unproven supposition that drinking red wine can help ward off heart attacks.

An American Heart Association science advisory published in today’s Circulation: Journal of the American Heart Association urges physicians to emphasize heart-protective steps that may be less appealing than sipping a daily glass or two of wine, but which are firmly supported by scientific research.

And this from the Mayo Clinic:

Red wine seems to have even more heart-healthy benefits than other types of alcohol, but it's possible that red wine isn't any better than beer, white wine or liquor for heart health. There's still no clear evidence that red wine is better than other forms of alcohol when it comes to possible heart-healthy benefits.
...
Resveratrol might be a key ingredient in red wine that helps prevent damage to blood vessels, reduces "bad" cholesterol and prevents blood clots.

Most research on resveratrol has been done on animals, not people. Research in mice given resveratrol suggests that the antioxidant might also help protect them from obesity and diabetes, both of which are strong risk factors for heart disease. However, those findings were reported only in mice, not in people. In addition, to get the same dose of resveratrol used in the mice studies, a person would have to drink over 60 liters of red wine every day.

Some research shows that resveratrol could be linked to a reduced risk of inflammation and blood clotting, both of which can lead to heart disease. More research is needed before it's known whether resveratrol was the cause for the reduced risk.

60 liters is 80 bottles a day, not 1-2 glasses.

I'm not saying it can't be true, just that there doesn't appear to be a medical consensus.

 

[Randomnity]

Cool, thanks for the opposing side. I have to point out two things, though:

1) most people including doctors will probably never encourage drinking of alcohol, since most people won't stop with 1 glass, and drinking 3 glasses/day is worse than zero.
2) it's a bit of a strawman for them to say "wine isn't better for you than diet and exercise!!!", since nobody has suggested that this is the case

I'll have to look into the actual studies when I have a chance, then. The review articles I found seemed like there is a consensus.

 

[MacGuffin]

Dirty little secret: that wino you pass on the street has better arteries than you do.

Of course, his liver is about to explode...

 

[FDG]

yummy, 60 litres of wine a day.

 

[Oberon]

1) most people including doctors will probably never encourage drinking of alcohol, since most people won't stop with 1 glass, and drinking 3 glasses/day is worse than zero.

I don't know about this. When I drink wine it's typically red, and I typically drink one glass in the evening, two at the very most... this from an ENTP with an addictive personality.

It's a matter of rationing. One bottle shared between my wife and I will last three days if we each drink one glass a day.

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I don't really think so.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Whoa, how long has he been eating that way? Does he eat fish or anything? Take vitamin supplements? What about gluten?

Since he was 28. He eats no meat, including fish, no eggs. Little wheat. And he runs.

In defense of Marms post from earlier, my grandfather eat a very 'Southern' diet, with lots of bacon fat and lard, and lived to 94. I think it was because he didn't overdo it, eat home-grown food, and he exercised as only farmers do, meaning a lot and all day long (he actually had a six-pack in his 70s). Also he had many friends and was involved in his church and community, which is an often overlooked component of long life.