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Electrolysis vs Laser

Fidelia

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I'm curious what your experiences are with either or both. What's reasonable to expect for cost, how can you ensure the place is reputable and has up-to-date equipment, etc? For the record I have very pale skin and quite dark hair.
 

Fidelia

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No takers? Really? Jennifer, you know something about this, don't you? Help me!
 

rav3n

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Haven't had either done because I'm a chicken but what I know of it, electrolysis is permanent and laser is not. But laser is cheaper and much, much faster. My mother has had electrolysis on her underarms and legs and said it was expensive, slow and painful. One treatment doesn't do it but the same holds true for laser. She had it done over 30 years ago and hasn't had any regrowth. My understanding is that for some people, it does sometimes grow back a little and you have to go back.

Here's a chart I googled, about the different types of laser hair removal. Hope it helps.

http://www.laserhairremovalreview.com/comparison.html
 

Fidelia

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I've looked up a lot of that stuff. There are a kajillion kinds of lasers though, depending on what the laser clinic can afford and what type of skin you have. Some laser places have lasers that are not that effective, yet they charge the same price. Laser, while not guaranteed to be permanent, will thin the hairs and reduce their visibility even if they do grow back to some extent. It is much more expensive per hour, but less treatments are needed than with electrolysis. For both, you have to go back on an ongoing basis because the hairs may be in different phases of growth. Electrolysis is less painful than it once was and there are good numbing creams out there. However, I'm not sure if one person is as good as the next, or if there's a wide variety of skill in practitioners as well as equipment or not. Both also require you to shave the hairs, rather than pluck them in between treatments, which does make them more visible.

So what I'm wondering is:
How do you tell what kind of laser they should be using and what price they should be charging?
Has anyone personally undergone either or both and what were their experiences?
Is burned skin ever a problem with laser?
How do you check the credentials of the practitioner for either type of treatment?
 

Fidelia

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Wait, just read the chart - I liked it that they said what kinds of lasers AND what names those lasers go by. From the looks of it I wonder why you'd choose any option other than that first one if you were doing it. Maybe there's a money difference. It looks like there's less pain and a longer period of time it lasts for (or at least more data about that). Thanks, lady!!!
 

rav3n

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If you click on Analysis in the left-hand nav bar, you'll find more information about each type of laser.
 

Totenkindly

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No takers? Really? Jennifer, you know something about this, don't you? Help me!


Laser:
Only works for darker hair because it operates by the hairs absorbing the heat energy and the follicles being killed.
So if your hair is blonde or gray, any laser strong enough to kill the follicle will also damage your skin.
The same happens for most styles of laser if you have dark/deeply tanned/black skin.

Cost depends on both area covered in the session.
Doing a small area is cheaper than a large area.
You can usually get "package deals" that could save you a few hundred dollars, if you are willing to shell out a chunk of money up front.
I got five sessions for $1280.
I also had an upper lip for $150.

Because you're flash-frying/zapping areas of skin, you can probably expect some degree of immediate welting/reddening. You can use topical creams to numb pain (EMLA), among other things. Different lasers cause different pains; some feel hot, some feel cold. One type of YAG laser feels like a rubber band thwacking your skin. I found the scorchers (like the Alexandrite) to burn burn burn and hurt immediately; the YAG (with the rubber-band effect) didn't hurt at first but the accumulated zapping ended up hurting just as bad at the end. But some people do not complain as much about pain.

The big thing to note about hair is that it grows in waves. You kill one wave, the next will still come in... making it look like nothing changed. But that is not necessarily true. You will need to kill off 5-6 waves of hair before it cycles back through. After three sessions or so, you should notice some hair lessening or disappearance, depending on how much hair you had in the area to begin with. (And I think this is more noticeable for men doing, for example, their back or stomach, since the hair there started out much thicker than with the typical woman.)

Electrolysis:
Hairs are zapped one by one by sticking a probe/needle into the follicle.
Disadvantage: Takes a long time.
Advantage: Can kill any color hair.

Rates depend on location, since competition will drive down the price. If you can get a price for $40-50/hour, though, you should consider yourself fortunate and doing well. In my time, I have paid anywhere from $55-$125/hour for electro, since I had very few qualified individuals in my general area. Some people will drive an hour or two for electro, depending on the skill of the electrologist and their location.

Again, you can use EMLA, vicodins/percocet, and even novacaine shots to deaden pain.

Since success for both laser and electro depends on the skill of the technician, it is hard to rate one factor as conclusive. IOW, if you find someone who is cheap, this doesn't mean you wouldn't be better off paying more to someone who is (1) faster and/or (2) more skillful at killing hairs dead on the first try.


My recommendation is to use laser (if you have light skin and dark hair) for wide areas that need hair removal, and use electro for 'spot' areas. Like ear hair, nose hair, upper lip hair, stray eyebrow hairs you know aren't part of your normal browline, unibrows, hairs coming out of moles, and whatever else.


So what I'm wondering is:
How do you tell what kind of laser they should be using and what price they should be charging?

Hopefully the pricing scheme I mentioned above should give you some ballpark figures. I recommend searching in your area for technicians, comparing figures, and seeing which ones seem about the same and which ones are either far lower or far higher.

Has anyone personally undergone either or both and what were their experiences?

Laser burned the crap out of me but was extremely effective. I heal fast, and my welts would only last about two hours before subsiding. I know other people whose redness lingered hours or even a few days. Electro hurts me just as bad but just leaves little red bumps that subside after a day or two. Electro was extremely effective for me as well.

Again, I think it's a matter of getting a sense of the person's skill and feeling out if they know what they are doing. If you can talk to other patients, that's good too.

Is burned skin ever a problem with laser?

See above. Welts/redness are common. You CAN really screw yourself up if your technician is clueless. People HAVE been horribly burned, but obviously that doesn't happen a lot especially with techs who have been around. The people in worst danger are those with darker skin and/or lighter hair; optimal coloration is dark hair and white skin. It's recommended not to have a tan when you go in, and to keep hydrated and use lots of lotion afterward (w/ sunblock) and stay out of the sun.

How do you check the credentials of the practitioner for either type of treatment?

I'm not sure about that one. I would skim their credential list, and I'd look at the type of setup they have. Lasers cost a lot of money. Usually they have to be a well-funded operation to start with in order to even pay for the laser upfront before getting business. So you'll often find the laser techs as part of a bigger operation that funds them. The dermatologist thus ends up being liable for everything.

Electrologists can be more "fly by night" and some work out of their own private residences. That's more of a "word of mouth" thing, to me. You can go in, usually they do a small sample area and then let you decide whether you want to come back; they're testing to see how your skin responds to the treatment.
 

Fidelia

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Thanks both of you ladies! There are about three places in the next biggest centre that do laser. I think I'd prefer to start there if I can, just because it covers more area. My main problem is that there is a big contrast between my hair and skin colour, so it shows up much more than someone who has the same hair which is blonde. I would like to get my upper lip and jaw/throat done and I'd be pleased if it just thinned the hair and made it less noticeable. I've tweezed those areas for abou 20 years and I am sick of dealing with ingrown hairs and also think I've become a little obsessive about having tweezers everywhere. When the hairs grow back in, before they've grown out of the surface of the skin, you can still see a little dark spot and I don't like it.

It appears that most places have a package of sessions that they require you to buy up front. In my case, I would expect that I'd need at least six sessions so that is not the end of the world. There's a clinic in my town, but the people there are very inexperienced. They did a small test patch and it burned my skin. One of the clinics in the city seems to be staffed solely by new immigrants, which isn't necessarily bad, but does make me wonder a little bit. Another one has very little information on their website, so I need to do some phoning.

Thanks so much for your help and advice!
 

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Have you looked at any at-home options, Tria or Viss for example? For your coloration, they may do the trick. BUT, there are positive and negative reviews for both, and I don't own either, so I can't give you any first-hand feedback. I have been tempted to try them though ... maybe someone else here on the forum has experience with one or the other and could share. :)
 

Fidelia

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I've never even heard of them. What are they? The only at home lasers I've ever encountered have been those kind that are supposed to zap your acne. Where have you encountered info about them?
 

LovelyAngel

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As usual, Jennifer has got just about all the information correct and organized. (^_^)

I have medium tone skin (Asian) and very black, thick hair with large roots. The hair was very resistant to electrolysis - my experienced electrologist was astounded that it took about six "zaps" to take out a root (whereas one or two zaps are normal). It was a slow process, and didn't actually seem to be permanent (hard to tell with hair growth cycles). After many, many electrolysis sessions over the course of a couple of years I tried laser, and about seven sessions did the trick - surprising me by being permanent - as that was all over 10 years ago, and the hair hasn't returned. It was so long ago I don't even remember the name of the laser. (Yeah... a fat lot of help I am. o_O)

Edit: Ah... I vaguely remember that it was a Cynosure laser... and it blew cold air to keep the skin cool. I doubt the model used on me is still in production, but the Cynosure Elite is probably a descendant.
 
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CzeCze

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Hey Fid! Just know that lasers hurt like a mofo and the machinery is more important that the technician. As long as they aren't incompetent what you want is the best laser for your skin/hair and budget. I asked for the highest setting so my hair is mostly gone in 3 visits which is almost unheard of, but again, it HURT LIKE A MOFO! This is with lidocaine cream and a horse size Advil given at a doctor's office. I was practically jumping off the table and screaming at some points and I have been waxing for years and have a high pain tolerance. But, I wanted the biggest bang for my buck so I asked them to put on the highest level that was safe. They can adjust settings for you. My goal was never 100% removal because I knew better but realistically I wanted to be virtually hair free. {edit: TMI portion deleted. :alttongue:} So yeah, 3 visits with the laser and I'm virtually hairless. Wheeee~

The difference between electrolysis vs laser - electrolysis is only hair removal approved as 'permanent'. It is painstaking work and takes a long time. For finer hair or smaller areas I think this may be better. The skill of technician is more important here. For laser, most are still better for coarser darker hair against a lighter skin background. I found it not as effective for fine hair like facial hair but best suited for the body. That was the laser that I used. There are more lasers out there so when checking clinics, aside from looking only at ones with the best reviews from many people, check the kinds of lasers so you are comparing apples to apples.

I'm very pleased with my laser experience but I also did not buy into a package. I have also paid for 1 time laser sessions from another place that did not have noticeable results - but the price I paid was so low (it was overseas) it was worth a shot. People say that sometimes it takes a few tries to see a difference but from my personal experience that is not true. If after 2 tries you see no results and they have adjusted the settings for you (and a good place will take before and after photos to document progress) I would not return. There are scammers and quacks out there and again, different lasers work better and worse for different people so do lots of research and proceed with caution!
 

CzeCze

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Hey Fid! Just know that lasers hurt like a mofo and the machinery is more important that the technician. As long as they aren't incompetent what you want is the best laser for your skin/hair and budget. I asked for the highest setting so my hair is mostly gone in 3 visits which is almost unheard of, but again, it HURT LIKE A MOFO! This is with lidocaine cream and a horse size Advil given at a doctor's office. I was practically jumping off the table and screaming at some points and I have been waxing for years and have a high pain tolerance. But, I wanted the biggest bang for my buck so I asked them to put on the highest level that was safe. They can adjust settings for you. My goal was never 100% removal because I knew better but realistically I wanted to be virtually hair free. {edit: TMI portion deleted. :alttongue:} So yeah, 3 visits with the laser and I'm virtually hairless. Wheeee~

The difference between electrolysis vs laser - electrolysis is only hair removal approved as 'permanent'. It is painstaking work and takes a long time. For finer hair or smaller areas I think this may be better. The skill of technician is more important here. For laser, most are still better for coarser darker hair against a lighter skin background. I found it not as effective for fine hair like facial hair but best suited for the body. That was the laser that I used. There are more lasers out there so when checking clinics, aside from looking only at ones with the best reviews from many people, check the kinds of lasers so you are comparing apples to apples.

I'm very pleased with my laser experience but I also did not buy into a package. I have also paid for 1 time laser sessions from another place that did not have noticeable results - but the price I paid was so low (it was overseas) it was worth a shot. People say that sometimes it takes a few tries to see a difference but from my personal experience that is not true. If after 2 tries you see no results and they have adjusted the settings for you (and a good place will take before and after photos to document progress) I would not return. There are scammers and quacks out there and again, different lasers work better and worse for different people so do lots of research and proceed with caution!
 
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Totenkindly

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My main problem is that there is a big contrast between my hair and skin colour, so it shows up much more than someone who has the same hair which is blonde.

Yes, that's the negative about your coloration(s); the positive is that you're a prime candidate for laser.

I would like to get my upper lip and jaw/throat done and I'd be pleased if it just thinned the hair and made it less noticeable. I've tweezed those areas for abou 20 years and I am sick of dealing with ingrown hairs and also think I've become a little obsessive about having tweezers everywhere. When the hairs grow back in, before they've grown out of the surface of the skin, you can still see a little dark spot and I don't like it.

When you tweeze stuff, often you can rip/damage the skin and/or follicle, and it has a tendency to grow back twisted/crooked in some way, which can create issues later on for the electrologist. It also results in the ingrowns, which you don't want

It appears that most places have a package of sessions that they require you to buy up front. In my case, I would expect that I'd need at least six sessions so that is not the end of the world. There's a clinic in my town, but the people there are very inexperienced. They did a small test patch and it burned my skin.

Since you have a set goal and an idea of how many sessions, yes, it might be worth ranging out to larger cities that might have more experienced techs. Even if you have to drive, you know what you're getting and how many times you'll likely have to drive. If you spend the money, you do want results. I've known people who did not have good long-term results while spending far more money than I did.

Peacebaby said:
Have you looked at any at-home options, Tria or Viss for example? For your coloration, they may do the trick. BUT, there are positive and negative reviews for both, and I don't own either, so I can't give you any first-hand feedback. I have been tempted to try them though ... maybe someone else here on the forum has experience with one or the other and could share

I tried a home option back in the 90's, with little result. The problem typically was that the energy output needed was not enough to kill the hair follicle. I have not researched these home models, but typically you just grab the hair itself in the tweezer and it zaps it? That just doesn't sound like it's going to kill the hair root -- not without a lot of electricity being applied. This is why the professionals actually stick a probe/needle into the pore and heat the follicle root directly; all the energy gets directed right into the root, and you can kill it with less energy. Electro hurts enough, I can't imagine how much power would be needed if all you are doing is grabbing the hair outside the skin; it would burn your skin, definitely, and I still don't think it would be permanently effective.

Oh, and don't use those hand-held epilators on your face, either. Some people use them on body hair, but your face is not something you want skin damage to. From one epilator link I just found:

Best Epilators
Epilators: some love them, some hate them
The first epilator, the Epilady hair remover, was invented in 1985 by two Israeli engineers. Instead of using blades to cut the hair off, epilators pull hair out of the skin. According to Australia's Choice magazine, a survey finds 40 percent of epilator users think they are "very" or "moderately" painful to use, and 43 percent experience irritation such as itching or redness. Still, epilators are popular among women who have previously waxed their legs, as they are seen as a less messy, more affordable long-lasting option -- especially for women who visit salons for hair removal. They also save money because they don't require shaving cream or replacement blades. Lastly, epilators can leave legs smooth for up to three weeks as opposed to just a few days with shavers and razors.

You're basically yanking the hair out. Leg skin and hair is different than face skin and hair. But also note the epilator only works for a few weeks. The follicle root (if not ripped/torn) stays intact; the hair just grows back fresh, with a fine tip, instead of just being mowed down right under your skin and coming out quickly and with a blunt tip.
czecze said:
As long as they aren't incompetent what you want is the best laser for your skin/hair and budget.

Uh... what do you consider the "best" laser? There are all types of lasers, for all different types of hair and skin colorations, and obviously the techs don't agree. I think maybe we can distinguish between older models and newer models (assuming the newer model is "better"), but I'm not sure we can desigate a "best".

I asked for the highest setting so my hair is mostly gone in 3 visits which is almost unheard of, but again, it HURT LIKE A MOFO! This is with lidocaine cream and a horse size Advil given at a doctor's office. I was practically jumping off the table and screaming at some points and I have been waxing for years and have a high pain tolerance. But, I wanted the biggest bang for my buck so I asked them to put on the highest level that was safe. They can adjust settings for you. My goal was never 100% removal because I knew better but realistically I wanted to be virtually hair free. {edit: TMI portion deleted. } So yeah, 3 visits with the laser and I'm virtually hairless. Wheeee~

How long have you been hair free?

You definitely killed three waves. Depending on the spacing of the visits though, it seems unlikely you caught the other 2-3 growth phases.

Mine hurt like a bitch too. And I was typically very stoic and could endure lots of pain. (When I was ten, I actually got a cavity drilled and filled without novacaine, I just mentally focused on something else. Because I didn't like needles.) But after my first laser session, which was over a fairly big area, I went out in the car and then I started crying. It *can* hurt. I just told myself the pain would go away soon enough, and it did.
 

CzeCze

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Uh... what do you consider the "best" laser? There are all types of lasers, for all different types of hair and skin colorations, and obviously the techs don't agree. I think maybe we can distinguish between older models and newer models (assuming the newer model is "better"), but I'm not sure we can desigate a "best".

I meant best for Fid. I think as you do your research one or two lasers stand out as the best option for pain tolerance, budget, type of skin/hair, etc. The lasers you can choose from are basically limited to your geographic area so it makes it easier to narrow down the choices :p The one I used ended up being the 'best' because it was the cheapest and actually worked :p Other suggestions are to ask for a 'sample' or a single pass on a small area to test it out. For any kind of cosmetic procedure (like facial peels, etc.) if you keep getting consultations and speaking with practitioners you learn more in general about how XYZ works (or alternatives to XYZ), not just their particular brand of XYZ and I find eventually you find for yourself what is best for you. Honest practitioners will also tell you when something isn't suited for your type or goals.

How long have you been hair free?

Years, baby! Years! :banana: 2-3?

I noticed say last year an extra errant hair or two grow back but it's nothing that makes me sign up for another session. I wouldn't mind another pass in one specific area where the doctor admits he might have forgotten to laser, but aside from the pain and cost the sessions are just time consuming and take some vinegar out of you for the rest of the day. You know what I'm talkin' about! My sessions were paced willy nilly apart since I was getting different areas done in groups and it started getting hard to schedule visits. Sometimes 6 weeks to 2-3 months to 1 year between sessions. I know this is funny coming from another 'P', but I'm horrible with time and remembering it correctly.

Mine hurt like a bitch too. And I was typically very stoic and could endure lots of pain. (When I was ten, I actually got a cavity drilled and filled without novacaine, I just mentally focused on something else. Because I didn't like needles.) But after my first laser session, which was over a fairly big area, I went out in the car and then I started crying. It *can* hurt. I just told myself the pain would go away soon enough, and it did.

I had a cavity drilled and filled too without novocaine when I was in highschool! I also enjoy getting piercings... :p But, yeah that laser is a mofo! People who compare it to a 'rubber band' or say it just is uncomfortable for a second are either lying, were coked up on good meds, got their laser done at too low a setting to be effective, or had one of the newer lasers that promises not to hurt as much.
 

CzeCze

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Uh... what do you consider the "best" laser? There are all types of lasers, for all different types of hair and skin colorations, and obviously the techs don't agree. I think maybe we can distinguish between older models and newer models (assuming the newer model is "better"), but I'm not sure we can desigate a "best".

I meant best for Fid. I think as you do your research one or two lasers stand out as the best option for pain tolerance, budget, type of skin/hair, etc. The lasers you can choose from are basically limited to your geographic area so it makes it easier to narrow down the choices :p The one I used ended up being the 'best' because it was the cheapest and actually worked :p Other suggestions are to ask for a 'sample' or a single pass on a small area to test it out. For any kind of cosmetic procedure (like facial peels, etc.) if you keep getting consultations and speaking with practitioners you learn more in general about how XYZ works (or alternatives to XYZ), not just their particular brand of XYZ and I find eventually you find for yourself what is best for you. Honest practitioners will also tell you when something isn't suited for your type or goals.

How long have you been hair free?

Years, baby! Years! :banana: 2-3?

I noticed say last year an extra errant hair or two grow back but it's nothing that makes me sign up for another session. I wouldn't mind another pass in one specific area where the doctor admits he might have forgotten to laser, but aside from the pain and cost the sessions are just time consuming and take some vinegar out of you for the rest of the day. You know what I'm talkin' about! My sessions were paced willy nilly apart since I was getting different areas done in groups and it started getting hard to schedule visits. Sometimes 6 weeks to 2-3 months to 1 year between sessions. I know this is funny coming from another 'P', but I'm horrible with time and remembering it correctly.

Mine hurt like a bitch too. And I was typically very stoic and could endure lots of pain. (When I was ten, I actually got a cavity drilled and filled without novacaine, I just mentally focused on something else. Because I didn't like needles.) But after my first laser session, which was over a fairly big area, I went out in the car and then I started crying. It *can* hurt. I just told myself the pain would go away soon enough, and it did.

I had a cavity drilled and filled too without novocaine when I was in highschool! I also enjoy getting piercings... :p But, yeah that laser is a mofo! People who compare it to a 'rubber band' or say it just is uncomfortable for a second are either lying, were coked up on good meds, got their laser done at too low a setting to be effective, or had one of the newer lasers that promises not to hurt as much.
 

LovelyAngel

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But, yeah that laser is a mofo! People who compare it to a 'rubber band' or say it just is uncomfortable for a second are either lying, were coked up on good meds, got their laser done at too low a setting to be effective, or had one of the newer lasers that promises not to hurt as much.

I'm sure this varies widely by individual, by laser, and by technician. I took two Advil (ibuprofen) prior to my sessions... and, yes, the pain was comparable to snaps of a rubber band... and this was back in 1999 (so the laser is not a new one by any means). The area treated was my face, and the even on the most sensitive area (upper lip) the pain was tolerable (although, yeah, there it hurt like a big rubber band that someone had given an extra long stretch). The sting was transient, lasting a few seconds. I don't consider myself to have a high tolerance for pain – but maybe I do. The hair has been gone for over ten years, so the laser setting wasn't too low, either.
 

Fidelia

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Thanks so much ladies! It helps to have a variety of different experiences to compare. I'm going to do some checking today and I'll get back to you on what I found.
 

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I tried a home option back in the 90's, with little result. The problem typically was that the energy output needed was not enough to kill the hair follicle. I have not researched these home models, but typically you just grab the hair itself in the tweezer and it zaps it? That just doesn't sound like it's going to kill the hair root -- not without a lot of electricity being applied. This is why the professionals actually stick a probe/needle into the pore and heat the follicle root directly; all the energy gets directed right into the root, and you can kill it with less energy. Electro hurts enough, I can't imagine how much power would be needed if all you are doing is grabbing the hair outside the skin; it would burn your skin, definitely, and I still don't think it would be permanently effective.

Oh, I think you misunderstood my post - Tria and Viss are at home laser / IPL treatments, not electrolysis. I think I put the links up there. Have you heard anything about them Jen?
 
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