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  1. #21
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I am Android:

    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  2. #22
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I am Android:

    Yeah its all that yeasty and sugary goodness.

  3. #23
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I think if I were her, I'd ramp up the bad eating habits and maybe add some smoking and drinking in excess in hopes of escaping my horrid, meddling, self-righteous family that much sooner.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #24
    loopy Ulaes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think if I were her, I'd ramp up the bad eating habits and maybe add some smoking and drinking in excess in hopes of escaping my horrid, meddling, self-righteous family that much sooner.
    well, you're a similar type and like her, sensitive, so how would you approach this? How can i make her feel better? how she feels is a big part of why i want her to get healthy.
    You and i might be incurabley at odds already anyway, if you think leaving her to her own devices is the better thing to do. it may be the more sensitive thing but hey, you can be there to watch her die because of her lifestyle.
    You don't like the way I'm going about it or is it the whole thing?
    She always complains about her weight and she's getting sicker and weaker as she gets older.

  5. #25
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    well, you're a similar type and like her, clearly very sensitive, so how would you approach this? How can i make her feel better? how she feels is a big part of why i want her to get healthy.
    You and i might be incurabley at odds already anyway, if you think leaving her to her own devices is the better thing to do. it may be the more sensitive thing but hey, you can be there to watch her die because of her lifestyle. are you against interfering with drug usage as well?
    You don't like the way I'm going about it or is it the whole thing?
    I think it's futile to attempt to change another person's behavior, especially when they haven't explicitly enlisted your help. She's an adult and the choices she makes are her own. It's okay to tell her how you feel and ask if there is anything you can do to help. It's okay to refuse to buy her snack cakes and invite her to go for a walk/work out with you with you.

    Beyond that, no matter how much you want to, there isn't anything you can do. She is legally competent and responsible for herself. It is her decision and yes, it would also be her decision if she were using drugs because she is an adult. Even if you were a professional, you wouldn't have any business taking her on as a client because your relationship is too close for you to be objective.

    If we are incurably at odds, it has nothing to do with type because I get along with my INTP husband very well -- precisely because respecting the autonomy of others is one of my cardinal rules. It's about respect and not setting yourself up as some kind of superior authority who has the right (moral obligation?) to control them for their own good.

    How I would handle it? I would try to avoid making her feel guilt or shame -- I've only ever known those two nasty feelings to make things like this worse. I would try to make sure she knows that I love her no matter how much she weighs. If she has made some kind of progress (assuming she chooses to make healthier choices) I would praise her for it -- tell her she looks good when she looks good, whether she's lost weight or not. I would ask her if she'd like to be my walking/gym, etc partner and enjoy the companionship as you exercise. I'd make a healthy meal or snack and invite her to share it with me and not give her a hard time if she didn't like it.

    Seriously, nobody likes to be a Project. An INTP of all people should realize how odious such behavior is to the victim.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    The person I have in mind is an ISFJ who's been overweight for almost 20 years, increasingly so with age. She's in her mid 50s and, like a lot of overweight people, works at a stressful desk job and has no other hobbie but watch TV and have snacks. She's a real hobbit, loves her comforts and pleasures and hates new and strenuous things. And like all SJs she's very routine and comfort zone based. She does not like to change things, she doesn't like to re-evaluate anything. She also hates exercise. It's gotten to the point where we (her family) are open and directive about wanting her to exercise for her health. No one's enough of a pig to use the F word to her face except her ENTJ husband (who's in denial about being a similar situation). All this does is depress her.
    She hates her size so she does want to loose weight. She made a big step a while ago by joining a gym, but by now, of course, she's given it up. We used to make her go walking in the evening but that has stopped now also because everyone is so busy. she REFUSES to do anything by herself. She is also sick a lot of the time, or just says she is. I've tried a lot of direct and indirect moves and they've worked but only for a while. I've confronted her head on, told her that she doesn't have much choice in this anymore because no one in her family wants to let her get sick, and she complies and tells me her plans but she never follows through. I can't be there with her, holding her hand and stroking her hair while she does a few bar bell reps. But apparently it's nessessary. She is very hard to motivate. She is so unbelievabley passive agressive and fickle. I've noticed that if someone else has a snack, she will inevitabley do so as well. I'm a bit puzzeled by her diet. I don't see what she eats most of the time but this is what i know. She's drinks a lot of coffe and coke, skips breakfast, eats empty crappy snack food for meals such as seafood extender, crackers with peanut butter on them, etc. At times, it seems she eats like a near anneorexic but then where is all this weight comming from?
    I always push her to go back to the gym, to go for a walk, to stop buying junk food (her pantry is gradually improving), to stop getting up at night and snacking, to eat properly at meal times, etc. I'm spend a lot of time on my fitness and I deliberatley eat well, which i noticed has influenced my families attitude towards health, but it's not enough.

    People who smoke will suddenly stop after a shocking doctors evaluation, even though people have been pushing them to stop for years. How do i get this kind of thing happen to someone who's overweight. What does it take to flip the switch for an overweight person and ISFJ? Has any one had any sucess with people like her?
    Maybe she is happy?

    I work with a guy who is diabetic and about 100lbs overweight (45kg)
    Every day I watch him eat 5-10 slices bacon and drink 2-4 beers after work (work in a pub)
    I brought it up to him once.

    He says .. "I am going to die anyway(he is 54), so I might as well die doing the things I love doing"
    So I have never said anything since. It's his life

    Maybe your family member has a similar attitude?

  7. #27
    loopy Ulaes's Avatar
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    excuse teh typos and grammar, it's a bit late for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think it's futile to attempt to change another person's behavior, especially when they haven't explicitly enlisted your help.
    she kind of has a bit. she asked me to go the gym with her, and i did, every time adn made her come with me when i went until she decided to stop. she asks me and others about health choices occasionally. She occasionally comes up with plans for exercise or a lifestyle change (she's been on and off jenny kraig for decades) but she lacks follow through.
    The message i got when she asked me to join the gym with her, was that she wanted me to continue supporting her.
    she wants to loose weight but it's an uphil battle because of her lifestyle.

    She's an adult and the choices she makes are her own. It's okay to tell her how you feel and ask if there is anything you can do to help. It's okay to refuse to buy her snack cakes and invite her to go for a walk/work out with you with you.

    Beyond that, no matter how much you want to, there isn't anything you can do. She is legally competent and responsible for herself. It is her decision and yes, it would also be her decision if she were using drugs because she is an adult. Even if you were a professional, you wouldn't have any business taking her on as a client because your relationship is too close for you to be objective.

    If we are incurably at odds, it has nothing to do with type because I get along with my INTP husband very well -- precisely because respecting the autonomy of others is one of my cardinal rules. It's about respect and not setting yourself up as some kind of superior authority who has the right (moral obligation?) to control them for their own good.
    i wasn't thinking that it was type related.
    I dont feel like a superior authority. At a point a while ago, i just decided that i refused to let her problem perpetuate and i'd do whatever it took to fix it. that's when i started getting a bit pushier and much more proactive. It controls her life and I was going to try and be an agent of change.
    She hates the way she is but has gotten no where by herself. she gets dragged down by other things ot much, work, stress, etc. I'm trying to make it so she doesn't have to fight such a strong current to get in shape.


    How I would handle it? I would try to avoid making her feel guilt or shame -- I've only ever known those two nasty feelings to make things like this worse. I would try to make sure she knows that I love her no matter how much she weighs. If she has made some kind of progress (assuming she chooses to make healthier choices) I would praise her for it -- tell her she looks good when she looks good, whether she's lost weight or not. I would ask her if she'd like to be my walking/gym, etc partner and enjoy the companionship as you exercise. I'd make a healthy meal or snack and invite her to share it with me and not give her a hard time if she didn't like it.
    i do all that! Although sometimes i get frustrated and tell her 'don't buy that'. That'd make her feel guiltly and embarrassed. I've been shopping with her, she loads up bad stuff. It's not so much for her as it is for her ENTJ husband, he's a sweet tooth and she really wants to do right by him because he yells when he talks, he imposes his needs on others and he trows trantrums which makes her crumble. He's the main consumer of these things, but it's easier to take food when it's right under your nose, so he drags her down too. He's only just started ot have a weight problem recently as he's moved from a labour intensive job to one where he sits down for hours on end. Now it's all catching up with him.

    Seriously, nobody likes to be a Project. An INTP of all people should realize how odious such behavior is to the victim.
    i think the OP came off the wrong way. that attitude is just how i wrote it. Me being firm handed with her are moments of desperation. those conversations are usually hard for me and the bad thing is that i'm naturally abrasive and direct with my words. i can now see that i need to be more aware of not overstepping my jurisdiction, i absolutly do NOT want to make her feel worse.

  8. #28
    loopy Ulaes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Maybe she is happy?

    I work with a guy who is diabetic and about 100lbs overweight (45kg)
    Every day I watch him eat 5-10 slices bacon and drink 2-4 beers after work (work in a pub)
    I brought it up to him once.

    He says .. "I am going to die anyway(he is 54), so I might as well die doing the things I love doing"
    So I have never said anything since. It's his life

    Maybe your family member has a similar attitude?
    no, she hates being overweight. it makes her depressed and self conscious. that's why i push her to exercise. she's even told me that she tells her friends at work that i'm the main driver behind her new habits. she seemed appreciative. i took it as a sign that she wanted and needed a bit of directiveness (but i don't bully her). it's her motivation. i make it out to be a bit of quality time between us as well. i give her the impression that the walk is mostly for me because it helps my muscles loosen from all my running and cycling (which is true) , and she is usually happy about coming along.
    i bought her a heart rate watch to help her motivation and for a while it worked. i had one as well and told her about heart rate zones, so it helped with the mood of the thing although i used ot pester to get up to the aerobic rate while walking.
    Last edited by Ulaes; 10-21-2010 at 02:35 AM.

  9. #29
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure that the ENTJ coming down on her like that also kinda sends her overeating into overdrive, due to stress-eating. Not sure you'll be able to help her without also addressing their relationship.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Chaotic Harmony's Avatar
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    Hmm... When I was uncomfortable with my weight... The last place I wanted to go was the gym. I was so self conscious around all the buff skinny people there... I felt like they were all laughing at me, even though they weren't even looking my way. It wasn't until I got a trainer that I utilized my gym membership. And then I finally started losing weight and tightening up.

    Have you tried to convince her to replace her junk food snacks with healthy snacks? See if you can get her to eat fruits instead of candy...veggies instead of chips... Try getting her to drink more water instead of sodas. That alone might help her shed some water weight... Which would probably make about a 10-15 pound difference on the scale. Which may be enough to jump start her motivation to keep going.


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