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  1. #31
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yes, English is a very "functional" language



    English has the same ancestry as French and Russian. They all sprung from a common Indo-European language although they are structurally different. The fact that English is about 1/3 French makes it more similar to a romance language than it initially appears. I'm not sure what you mean by "bastardized" but all languages change and evolve.

    Also, stupider isn't a word - kind of ironic for someone who is complaining about the language she's using being "bastardized."



    I've always wanted to learn to speak a Slavik language, myself.
    Stupider should be a word. If we have "stupidest," there should be "stupider." It's only logical. Languages do not evolve if we don't make up words like this!

    I'm not complaining about English being "bastardized" by people like me (which I fully encourage), but the history of English invasions and reformations makes it... a little weird, to say the least. It acts like one way once and then another way another time. And all of this invasion and invading forced it to simplify. But, really, I'm more wondering about non-indoeuropean languages that were more isolated and are often more precise than English and if these would be better for Durentu.

    Then again there's the idea that linguistic relativity is bullshit. The Oxford (or in my case, Merriam Webster's) Dictionary is not a complete list of the thoughts we are allowed to have -- to make them more complicated, we just have to add more words.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Stupider should be a word. If we have "stupidest," there should be "stupider." It's only logical. Languages do not evolve if we don't make up words like this!
    The changing grammatical rules is the primary thing that makes English less simple, which is hilarious since you're complaining about it's relative simplicity.

    I'm not complaining about English being "bastardized" by people like me (which I fully encourage), but the history of English invasions and reformations makes it... a little weird, to say the least. It acts like one way once and then another way another time. And all of this invasion and invading forced it to simplify. But, really, I'm more wondering about non-indoeuropean languages that were more isolated and are often more precise than English and if these would be better for Durentu.
    Slavik languages are more precise, and they spring from the Indo-European ancestor. That's one of the reasons why they interest me. Also, the focus on inflection rather than word order...

  3. #33
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I don't think English vs. any other language is the issue here. I think for a person who thinks in pictures, any language is necessarily a leash on their natural thinking process. Actually, it is for everyone, but the difference is probably more pronounced for autistics and especially those who mastered language late enough to remember their original OS.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #34
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The changing grammatical rules is the primary thing that makes English less simple, which is hilarious since you're complaining about it's relative simplicity.
    Okay, so, according to you, we have "stupid," "more stupid," and "stupidest". However, all other times we either make these comparisons with "-er" and "est", like "high, higher, highest" and "loud, louder, loudest," or we do it with "more" or "most," like "painful, more painful, most painful," and "fashionable, more fashionable, most fashionable."

    If it is true that "stupider" is not a word, then I'm merely fixing this hole in the language. However, I'm pretty sure that it is a word. Perhaps you are thinking of the rhyme with "boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider," which would be wrong.

    This "stupid," "more stupid," and "stupidest" is a stupid exception to the comparisons rule. Let's unstupid it.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #35
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    As a synesthete, I can tell you, it's not exactly like that...
    True, but the main point is that our qualia, or subjective experiences are different. I cannot understand your qualia as you cannot understand mine exactly. The best I can do is to extend myself as far as I can to try to understand as well as you can try to extend yourself in helping me to understand. Since you didn't say that I was completely wrong, there's success in there.



  6. #36
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I'M VEry visual and I learned language late and I still find it hard to put my thoughts into words and people just think I'm stupid but I know what I want to say just not how. Like I have full comprehension just communication isn't that great.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #37
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I don't think English vs. any other language is the issue here. I think for a person who thinks in pictures, any language is necessarily a leash on their natural thinking process. Actually, it is for everyone, but the difference is probably more pronounced for autistics and especially those who mastered language late enough to remember their original OS.
    Weird. I don't remember being particularly visual, but I do remember feeling sad as a child when I realized I'd come to think in words exclusively and couldn't remember how not to.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #38
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Weird. I don't remember being particularly visual, but I do remember feeling sad as a child when I realized I'd come to think in words exclusively and couldn't remember how not to.
    Me too. I think I was more of an emotional thinker, or an intuitive
    (not in the MBTI sense) thinker, not a visual one, but I remember it being a loss for me as well. Learning about Derrida and deconstruction in college was like meeting an old friend.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I'M VEry visual and I learned language late and I still find it hard to put my thoughts into words and people just think I'm stupid but I know what I want to say just not how. Like I have full comprehension just communication isn't that great.
    I relate to this very much.

    I learned language early, I was painfully introverted in school but I was pretty facile with language all things considered but then when I was 25 developed a vestibular disorder and since then my thoughts are very often hard to put into words (among some other cognitive problems), just like I can't make that leap.

    People do not understand. People often think I am being evasive or messing with them. I try with the people closest to me to tell them, look I can't put what I want to say into words right now. If I am bad at that moment it comes out, I can't say what I mean right now. Even then, the people around me usually won't accept that I am really having problems. I guess it is just hard for them to accept. I had trouble accepting it for several years, I thought I was going crazy or something but then I found an article on the cognitive effects of a vestibular disorder and began to understand better what was going on. I felt like the doctors who diagnosed me with it should have known about this, should have given me this info but even the Vestibular specialist never mentioned any of this.

    I think it is why I like the internet so well. It's very easy to text, just not to talk.

  10. #40
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    For you parents who have discarded "normal" and have taken the time to understand your children's reality: I'm grateful you exist to give others hope. I, however, wasn't so fortunate.
    I tend to think of my children as themselves however labels are helpful in order to access information etc. I hope i am one of the parents you mention, i like to think i am or rather i feel i am. I am sorry you didn't have that.

    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    Self diagnosed Aspie, IQ 146-165. pattern thinker, auditory learner. I'll expand on my perception of what grandin says about "difficulties with english"

    I don't have difficulties with the language in so much as it's a stupid language. It doesn't fit my thoughts at all. When writing, I have major difficulties condensing my thoughts to fit English. And when reading, it's very difficult to decode what the words actually mean. In short, the English language is insufficient and slapdash. To find precision and fine granularity in english is almost a complete waste of time. But it's a mandatory skill being in an english speaking country. This is why people like me find math/physics, circuits, music much more fitting.

    Most people think in words. I think in networks.
    This is facinating to me. I understand the English language to be stupid in as much as it is inconsistant, irregular and bombastic. But i had not thought of it as insufficent, possibly because it suits my style of communication.
    It seems to me that you are on a different level to me in this respect and you have given a real insight into something i had never befor given much thought to. It really is quite amazing (to me) that you think on such an elevated level.

    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    How the heck to you condense this into english that is accurate and yet brief enough not to be as long as an encyclopedia?



    Or better yet, one of my mind maps

    2shared - download habituation.png

    networks like these flash in my head one after another. It's not painful, it's just how I think. And as I form ideas I link networks across each other and draw links and interesting things. But because my brain work this way, I'm not handicapped, the language is too narrow.
    I agree with you, you are clearly far from handicapped. I would hazard a guess to say your mind is more evolved than many others.

    Quote Originally Posted by durentu View Post
    This is the language difficulty of the pattern thinking aspie like myself. When english is the output, there is a translation difficulty from this complexity into english language and rhetoric. When the input is english, there are incomplete and fuzzy links everywhere and thus requires guesswork or tons of questions to get a satisfying mental thought. Some of the questions are completely bizarre and unrelated only because the person being asked is unaware of the far reaching links that I'm trying to clarify or clean up.

    Insights into the pattern thinking mind is rare so I write it here in hope to help someone.
    Well i am certainly intrigued. I have a child with high functioning ASD and another with severe dyslexia and i am curious to learn if either would think in this style. I talked to my eldest about this and he explained that he (visually) sees something similar to a network when he thinks, prehaps more like a spider graph. I wanted to ask weather you see the networks visually when you think of them? Or are you solely using the images to portray your thought process?
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

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